London Underground Explosions

[dawoco]

So many seem to be busy with comparing what has happened to other things, equally horrible, that happened elsewhere.

 

For me, alarm bells have gone off when the bishop of canterbury said he condmended the actions and was in meeting with his "muslim collegues".

 

This feeling intensified throughout yesterday as the police commisioner was quick to point out that Islam and terorism doesn't go together, with regards to the beliefs muslims hold. This statement was reinforced in Livingstones speech, that everyone was equally hit, muslims as well as non-muslims, and as a representative from the council of Islam in the UK stood side by side with another bishop condemning the acts.

 

And now the commisioner is saying how there hasn't been any attacks on muslims during friday prayers so far. All of this seem to be pre-emptive strikes to prevent a huge backlash. And that will last longer than it takes the wounds of those caught to heel.

 

All those who have been caught in the attack, may Allah give them full health, or if their time on earth is up, may Allah make their passing painless, aamiin.

[Rahima]

Secondly, as for those hesitant in condemning the London bombings and camouflaging their real opinions with subtle words like ‘frown upon’ – be true and say what it is you want to say. ‘Frowning upon something’ means disliking it YET finding it ACCEPTABLE.

No hesitation, I think for any person who understands the English language and can comprehend my stance was very clear. Similarly to some perhaps “frown upon†could mean acceptance, when I say “frown upon†I dislike and do not accept - Just wording, choice of wording . I suppose there isn’t much one can do if others want to see whatever they wish. But since I am camouflaging and really want to say something else, what else may that be? I sure as heck would like to know, considering I do not know myself what I really want to say!

 

Being concerned about a backlash against Muslims alone is selfish and shows the divided mentality in addressing this issue.

The key word here is alone-by condemning it no longer becomes alone . Once again one cannot do much about what others want to read. This was not the only concern some of us might have; it is rather the consequential concern. We cannot go back on what happened, wrong sure, to be condemned sure; can I do anything about it now except condemn? No! Who are my primary concerns for now? The Muslims! Why? Because previous experiences have proven that after such incidences the backlash is pretty awful. So I’m wondering since when did it become a crime to discuss the issue or feel for my brother/sister Muslims? I think it’s called freedom of expression. I think i have a right to an opinion.

 

In case there is anymore confusion, allow me to quote myself. Perhaps after this, it will become more clear.

 

As hard as some may try, we can never justify this whilst condoning this current attack on London-both wrong, both should be frowned upon.

I could of have sworn that by saying it was wrong I was condemning what happened or has wrong become synonymous with acceptance ?

 

I don’t need Tony Blair to tell me how I should feel about the issue or agree with the whole of his Dubya like speech to condemn what occurred.

I could of have sworn that by using “ condemn †I was actually condemning.

 

I can’t imagine that anyone would be delighted about what occurred

I could of have sworn that this was condemnation.

 

Then again it could be me, I mean I am camouflaging and really want to say something else after all.

 

NGONGE

 

It should have no ambiguity or vagueness. It should not change whenever Bush or Blair do something to a “Muslim†country.

NGONGE, let me save you some time. I don’t think anyone has thus far condoned what occurred. The response of the invasions was directed (if you had followed the flow of the discussion) at the point made

 

I do watch the media outlets you mentioned on daily basis and I haven’t come across them justifying violence in any name. Unless you can tell me specifics, where and when they have done so.

Which I then gave the examples of Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

You obviously feel that these invasions were justified. I personally don’t want to argue about it. I disagree with you, like almost all of the Muslim world and a whole load of non-Muslims. The point I was making, and it seems you missed is, two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t have to justify the attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan because some people felt the need to attack NY, Madrid or London.

 

That is all dear, as for the actual invasions let's just agree to disagree- we will never agree on this matter.

[juba]

i am deeply disturbed to hear this news! just when we thought it was over these retards strike again. I wish you londoners the best and im glad everyone made it out safe.

[Valenteenah.]

They are driven to it..... out of desperation and seeking independence. Its better to die standing than to live upon your knees (as Tupac said).

Athena,

 

Tell that to the Iraqis who wake up in the morning and go to work (much like the London Commuters...much like everyone else), only to get blown up by their 'brothers' who are apparently 'fighting' for them, because they were unfortunate enough to be walking near a police station or working within 3 miles of an American checkpoint (c'mon, when was the last time an explosion killed a non-Iraqi? Last year? :rolleyes: ). But who gives a shite about them, eh?

 

Just like the West puts Western lives above those of Muslims, so do the Muslims, when they see it as acceptable, even encourageable to kill a 1000 Muslims just to get a single American or Brit.

 

Incredibly enough, if some silly Muslim man or woman somewhere were to say something offensive about Islam or Muslims...we'll be foaming at the mouth in a nanosecond, condemning left right and centre, ferocious in our anger and protests. How dare they speak for Islam? How dare they say this or that about Muslims? How dare they do this or that in the name of Islam?...

Sometimes even going as far as threatening or inflicting physical violence on the offending person/s.

 

Compare this with a bus full of Muslims being blown up by a 'blessed Mujahiduun' in the name of Islam and in the pretext of fighting occupation or Western unjustness, and what is our response? Silence...no condemnation, no anger, no protests...just the usual weak, pathetic mutterings about 'desperation' or 'they were driven to it' or my favourite...'its horrible BUT....". The silence from Muslims is pretty deafening in these types of cases. Sickeningly so.

 

It seems we only occupy ourselves with the pointless and superficial.

 

I completely agree with NGONGE when he says ---->

 

There is something disgustingly wrong with the Muslim world today. We can all see it, we know about it and, most of us are uncomfortable with it. But, instead of concentrating on this rotten core, we bang on about Bush and Blair!

PS: London seems pretty empty today. I had my choice of seats on the train, when usually the carriage would be super-packed and I would be plastered side-ways against the door. Silver lining and all...

[Rahima]

^ NGONGE although i disagree with his justification of the invasions he is basically right on his assessment of the Muslims. Our downfalls are not because of the likes of Bush and Blair (but I don’t have to like them either), which is why I question whether or not Muslims are actually behind all of this and if so I wonder about their intelligence and common sense.

 

Common sense dictates that this like I’ve said harms Muslims more than any other group. Assuming it was Muslims, If they truly cared, they would not be doing this and although I’m not very favourable to conspiracy theories, I am not willing to lay responsibility on Muslims just yet- we need more proof than just some statements on a website. I still cannot get my head around Muslims doing this or all the other attacks.

[Valenteenah.]

^ Agreed. The whole thing is utterly mind-boggling.

 

Why would they post a statement taking responsibility if they weren't actually the ones responsible? It's like voluteering to be executed for a crime you didn't commit. Either way, the fact that they took the responsibility puts the rest of us in trouble.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Rahima:

I am not willing to lay responsibility on Muslims just yet- we need more proof than just some statements on a website.

If you get more proof, what would laying responsibility on Muslims achieve or change?

Common sense dictates that this like I’ve said harms Muslims more than any other group.

You mean Muslims in the West?

Originally posted by Zephyrine:

Either way, the fact that they took the responsibility puts the rest of us in trouble.

Do we have the choice of being in or out of trouble, whether they took the responsibility or not?

[Rahima]

^ You see Zeph, that’s just it. Who’s to say that it was Muslims who are actually taking responsibility? I don’t know but this whole thing just like all the other bombings and attacks in the west just seem fishy :confused: . They are either the most s-t-u-p-i-d moves (even speaking tactic wise) or Muslims are not behind them. So far aside from a whole load of claims and no real proof brought foreword, I’m not willing to accept the mainstream view in the west.

 

But then again it doesn’t matter what I think, what matters is what the public think and sadly no one really cares about proof these days or having enough insight to differentiate people who share something (in this case assuming it is the case, Islam).

 

If you get more proof, what would laying responsibility on Muslims achieve or change?

Nothing, but at the very least have proof when you make claims. It's a simple request and very basic wouldn't you say? especially in light of the possible outcomes.

 

You mean Muslims in the West?

Basically, not necessarily from the government as such but rather from the general public. People get heated and lash out unjustly after such incidences.

[Castro]

Hey all, since we have beaten this topic black and blue, I thought I might lighten things up and share with you something I came across the other day. It's about making an argument, so on and so forth. Enjoy:

 

"Arguing with a man who will not produce evidence in support of his position is like arguing with a vegetable." — Aristotle.

 

"Never argue with id!ots. The just drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience." Unknown.

 

So keep this in mind the next time you get really into convincing someone or suffocating with their proofless doctrine. I have been on both sides of the aisle by the way.

 

Ofleh

[-Serenity-]

Heh. (said in Classy NGONGE style).

 

Now,

 

Zeph… theres nothing I could add or deduct from your reasoning. You make perfect sense.

 

However, bear with me as I need to run home and wanna sum up a few things.

 

NGONGE’s point about War etiquette ma aha wax macquul ah. Its like saying ‘I’m coming to beat u up and beating you up’ is more justified than ‘attacking you from behind and beating you up’. Either way, none is justified. Some1 is getting beaten up. Life for life.

 

Secondly, by saying ‘driven to it’, I’m not in anyway excusing their foolishness. But a drowning man will cling onto a straw. You’re purely underestimating the desperation the Iraqi insurgents feel in their own home - the helplessness, the inability to fight back with equal force, the oppression…

 

Lastly, the girl who is going around in circles – you must really blv I follow you around or care about what you say. No.

[Rahima]

you must really blv I follow you around

I swear i was not thinking that , but since you mention it..

 

Really, this is so immature, it's actually laughable .

 

Next it’s going to be “I know you are but what am I†.

[Senora]

^^^ :rolleyes: ^^^ Could we please cut this short? It's getting awfully tiring, I must say!

 

 

I was watching some news this morning....and after reading more reports on the London attacks via internet, it's amazed me how the London people stayed soo calm!!! :eek:

 

I guess experience from the IRA attacks in the 70's and 80's might have helped :confused:

Wondering why there hasnt been any speculations pointing their direction??

[Rahima]

It's getting awfully tiring, I must say!

You can say that again!

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Haddad:

Do we have the choice of being in or out of trouble, whether

they took the responsibility

or not?

We have the choice of making it unequivocally clear that such indiscriminate killings are unacceptable to those Muslims who think its an option...to those stup!d Mullahs who insist on talking garbage and justifying horrific acts...and to their ignorant and docile followers.

 

Rahima,

 

 

Who’s to say that it was Muslims who are actually taking responsibility? I don’t know but this whole thing just like all the other bombings and attacks in the west just seem fishy

Not that fishy, considering the same attacks have and are being carried out in both Non-Western and Muslim countries.

 

Athena,

 

I disagree about the desperation factor..but since ur on ur way out, lets just agree to disagree.

 

Ofleh,

 

Noted.

[-Serenity-]

Zephyrine

I disagree about the desperation factor..but since ur on ur way out, lets just agree to disagree

You're mixing the situation in Iraq with the one here. There is desperation there.

 

I think we should stop mixing the two up. One is terrorism = wrong. The other is invasion = again wrong.