London Underground Explosions

[-Serenity-]

This is misplaced anger leading to indiscriminate counterattack on anyone and everything possible.

 

Not for Muslims. Not against Muslims.

 

And we should firmly stand united on that thought.

[- Femme -]

Close call. May Allah have mercy on us all.

[Haneefah]

I hope that all the London nomads are safe and sound Insha'Allah. This is Just shocking, I can't Imagine what you folks must be going through.

 

My prayers are with you all and all the Muslims and their families who have been affected by this tragic incident.

 

May Allah protect us all!

[Medley of extemporanea]

This is really very disheartening. I offer my condolences to all the victims, their families and all those affected by those tragic crimes.

 

I hope all our SOL friends are safe and sound.

 

I remember the day of 9/11, I was only up the streets from the Pentagon and at the Pentagon train station that morning as I commuted to work. Some of my coworkers actually witnessed the attack; it was a struggle to get back home, all the buses and streets were clogged with panicked people.

 

These repulsive acts can never be justified.

[Warrior of Light]

Im sorry maybe late but just heard about right now. Glad to see SOL nomads are safe and sound. I pray that my family members and friends are sound.

 

Pray for the wounded and those whose beloved have departed.

 

Im sorry to see that the backbone of londons commuting system has been affected. Remember gettin on and of those hitted stops. Terrorists or no terrorist just another act of cowards. Pray the Muslim Ummah in Uk will use this opportunity to unite, tough times are ahead.

May Allah give londoners the patience. Amin

[Baashi]

Glad to see u all made it safe. My prayers and thoughts are with SOL nomads and their relatives (if any) who have been affected by this cowardly act of indiscriminate killings. Likewise, my heart goes out to all the innocent folks and their loved ones who have been affected by this tragic incident.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Zephyrine:

WHY ARE WE LETTING COLD-BLOODED KILLERS COMMIT ATTROCITIES IN THE NAME OF ISLAM?

Did we let them? If not IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, in what name?

WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM KILL IN OUR NAME?

So, we're complicit in the killing by having given them permission (LETTING)? What can you do to stop them; denounce them, vilify them, etc? What good would that do? Maybe physically fighting them is the way to go; are you willing to do that?

[AYOUB]

I'm not really surprised London got hit, but I don't 'get' some of the targets chosen.

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

War and the blowing up of commuter trains, buses and taxis cannot be compared in anyway, shape or form.

Saxiib what do you consider the Marquis of Queensbury Rules of War to be?

[Kashafa]

WHY ARE WE LETTING COLD-BLOODED KILLERS COMMIT ATTROCITIES IN THE NAME OF ISLAM?

 

WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM KILL IN OUR NAME?

Enough. Enough beating up on ourselves.

 

We(the Muslim Ummah as well as SOL members) did not aid or abet this terrorist attack. It was carried out by misguided fanatics. Not us.

So there's no reason to grovel and apologise. Self-abasement is not a virtue.

 

For Nomads in the US, watch out for 'brother' Kamal Nawash to break out on talk shows describing in great detail what exactly is wrong with Islam(most of it, in his view). He normally surfaces after terrorist attacks and is a constant fixture on Fox.

[NGONGE]

It took me only two hours to get home. They got the trains and buses running again, luckily enough.

Hope all the rest made it home ok. The underground should be reopened tomorrow (so, no, you can’t phone and say there is no public transport).

 

 

As for the discussion here. I’m saddened to see the usual predictable replies. Who would have guessed that some of the debaters would use the tedious argument “what about the people of Iraq? What about the people of Palestine?†Or as they say in the Simpson's “won’t somebody think of the children?â€

 

There is still an attempt, though weak and floundering now, to compare the Iraq war to this incident!

Somebody remarked earlier that I’m simplifying war! War is SIMPLE. The aftermath of it, the results and knock on effects might not be. However, the act of war in itself is very simple. The rules of war are straightforward. I’m not sure if it were the same genius that also spat out a list of “freedom fighters†earlier. In fact, that list confused me somewhat! For I’m sure that most respondents to this thread have already condemned today’s events! Yet, someone uses the idea of “insurgents, resistance or freedom fighting†to explain away bombs in trains! What gives?

 

This promises to be a trying and very wearisome ordeal. But, I shall nonetheless persist in my attempts to bring you screaming and shouting to my side of the fence. Where you’re sitting now is, frankly, unacceptable.

 

I’ll endeavour to draw you a straight line here. I’m hoping that you will see it clearly and argue against it or try to wipe it off completely. I shall not entertain any digression or departure from this line. If the children of Iraq are dying, the mothers lose their sons or the oil is being exploited, I’m afraid you’ll have to lament that on your own (or invite me to join you weeping on another thread). Here, we are talking about war, its rules, conventions, the way it’s carried out and the way it’s resolved. We’re also talking (or rather, I’m talking and you’re learning, about justifications for war). I’m taking time out here to sprinkle some basic wisdom your way. I therefore would appreciate it if you took your time while reading my words and try to respond to the points I shall raise and not those you perceived (or always observe in similar situations).

 

Historically, WAR has always been fought between two sides (sometimes, the two sides consisted of a number of groups and allies - see World War II or even the Spartan Wars).

The strength or weakness of either side is irrelevant. The weapons used are mostly also beside the point (unless we‘re talking Nuclear and Chemical weapons). In this type of war, both sides know who the enemy is. The Italians knew Omer Al Mokhtar, the Brits knew The Mad Mullah (as they called the Sayid), and the Americans knew Saddam. Likewise, the weaker sides in the fight knew the enemy and fought a conventional war against him. Even in Palestine, way before Israel was a bosom buddy of Britain's government, the Brits and Arabs knew the Hagganah was the enemy and the Hagganah knew that those two were its enemy! This was (and still is) conventional war.

 

The war in Afghanistan was justified because of the attacks on New York and the fact that the groups that made those attacks was said to be based in that country! The war there followed the conventional route. America threatened the Taliban. It made some demands, which if they were no fulfilled, it said it will invade that country. The Taliban, as we all know (and I’m not rewriting history here) denied everything but bravely indicated its readiness for war. They gave legitimacy for that war by these actions. Afghanistan was invaded.

 

Iraq was played with for over a decade. Sanctions were forced upon it. No fly zones were instated in its territory and periodic warnings and searches were undertaken against it. Finally, America upped the tempo and the drums of war rang louder. As with most conventional wars, conditions were stated and ultimatums given. Saddam and his cronies were offered a way out. They refused and promised to fight until the last. They promised America, the mother of all battles! One can substitute Iraq for Ghana and America for India, yet the process of taking part in a war will still be the same. The rules followed will still be the same. Of course there is the side issue of UN approval and whatnot but I don’t think anyone in the world (not even some of the simpletons amongst us) could argue that this would not have been obtained if America wanted to wait. Still, this is neither here nor there. It’s a secondary issue and it does not interfere with the ‘right’ of one sovereign nation waging war on another! The war was waged. Iraq resisted momentarily and finally was shocked and awed! As Muslims, we were all against this war. Many Iraqis are also still resentful of this invasion. They are, rightfully, fighting back and resisting occupation. Many others are kidnapping women, civilians and foreign diplomats. The first group is waging a ‘fair’ war, while the other is nothing but a bunch of cowards who do not understand the importance of rules and ethics in anything.

 

Now this brings us to our current discussion and the events in London today. If this be called a war, two sides need to be engaged in the fight. The Brits we know, but who are the bombers? It’s claimed that they’re Muslims! Does that mean you and I? If the Brits seek revenge for today’s terrible events, can they be justified in bombing Pakistan with no prior warning and merely for the simple fact that Pakistan is a Muslim country?

 

The war in Iraq, Afghanistan and even Palestine can not in anyway, shape or form be compared to the blowing up of buildings, trains and businesses by self-appointed Mullahs that nobody knows or chose to lead their fight! If one were to speak of justifications and ethics of war, then one will have to concede that America (and Britain) seem to be more justified purely by the ‘ethical’ way they wage their wars.

 

Having said all of this, I’ve got to admit that this is a pointless argument and the only reason that enticed me into participating in it, was the repetitive reference to Iraq, Palestine, the Mongol’s invasion of Baghdad and the Crusades, whenever someone points the finger at some wrongdoing of Muslims!

 

It’s not an adult way in making an argument and is rather akin to a child being told off for some naughtiness; who then resorts to listing all the wrongdoings of his siblings and how they ‘got away with it’ with hardly any rebuke or scolding.

[Jacpher]

I'm glad to hear all of you out there are safe. Alxamdulilaah. May Allah punish those who commit such atrocity. Those responsible need to be brought to justice.

 

I see some of you already assume that "Muslims" are or may be behind these barbaric acts. Don't be judgmental walaalayaal. Our religion directs us to verify and not rush into conclusion if news is brought to you, especially by faasiq. I am just hoping this act of violent on innocent people including Muslims won’t create a hostile response to Muslim community and result in closure of mosques and Muslim schools.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Papamaine513:

For Nomads in the US, watch out for 'brother' Kamal Nawash to break out on talk shows describing in great detail what exactly is wrong with Islam(most of it, in his view).

So, something is wrong with Islam, with exactness? Muslims believe Islam is perfect. What would Muslims gain from watching someone describing in great detail what exactly is wrong with Islam? The suggestion to watch that someone makes no logic or sense.

[Castro]

Opinions are like a$$holes — everyone's got one, but nobody wants to look at the other guy's.

 

Winston Hal Hickman

[bilan]

the correct way to say it will be what is wrong with 'some' muslims. islam is perfect, but if there is some individuals who want to misuse it,then there is nothing we can do. i do not understand why some muslims feel like they have to apologize for this crime, we did not let them do anything,they did it on their own, they did not ask us permission to do it,and if you mean speaking against it, scholars do it all the time, but they chose not to listen. why when oklahama was bombed methodists did not come out to apologize, because at the beginning they treated as a criminal act that had nothing to do with religion. i am sorry but i am not responsible what 1.5 billion muslims do, i am only responsible what i do, and i hope muslims will feel the same,if not then you will have to keep apologizing every single day for some barbaric crimes committed by some muslims since i do not think they will stop any time soon.

[Curly]

Good point Bilaan! First off I'm glad to see you're well and opinionated as ever.

Walaal I agree with you to a certain degree…that Muslim are implicating them selves by continuingly apologising for acts they are not in any involved in.

 

However having said that, we as Muslims have always stressed are unity and for us to now dissociate ourselves from other Muslims would be totally contradictory of all that we stand for, which is of course the Muslim Ummah.