The great big question?

[Nazra]

I must say, i usually don't particpate in FGM talks, and females who do...really piss me off.

All they do is focus on the NEGATIVE sides.

 

The way of somalian circumsion is bad due to lack of deen. Or maybe they just didn't like the esay way for they daughters and change the whole law of circumsion.

 

I was one day watching my beloved OPRAH, and the topic that day was "female circumicon in the thrid world country"...i must say i had no idea that other nations were like us...well SOME, and one reason i learned that they performed this was "to prevent sexual desires" and i was like what the???. And not to mention the lack of cleaniess and raw and dirty sakiin (that's what only shocked me). FGM doesn't prevent rape or being sexually active, this is all CRAP. and hell i don't beleive it. Any girl can get rape and still FGM wouldn't pervent it and any girl can have haram sex and still same old thing.

 

With the right knowledge,resources and attention of the hadith will lead to SUCCESSFUL CIRCUMSION.

[OG Moti]

Rahiima thanx for nice words, and i opologize if I said wrong to you personaly in any point.

 

Simam - yes i did not, but older females did, and i dont see them complaining, i dont see them psychos, and if there were not happy about it, they would not do it to there daughters, unless u telling me "it is payback to them"

 

Rakim - brother do you really know what is the meaning of SUN'NA - see brother it is sun'na does not mean we dont do it, a true muslim would never let sun'na go by.. read about sun'na

 

Wiil nugaal - i agree with ya

 

shyhem- only a somali person would call his culture premitive thinking others things are better than his/her

 

nasra - just do it to your daughters sis and dont worry about it, but do it in islamic way loooool

 

guys again i repeat i do agree the somali way is hard and not neccessary, but my main point here is dont tell me somali culture is shitty and wrong, yes it is ficooni way it is also somali culture, we can change it slowly - but without critizing

 

peace

[Ariadne]

I know I'm inviting the wrath of somaliaonline at my doorstep, but if the All Mighty Allah (swt) created us with those parts that make up our genitalia dosn't it seem that they were meant to be there....just a thought some of us should seriously consider!

[ProudSista]

Salaamz

 

La-hawla-wala-quwahta

 

I do not agree with my mum or grandmum on circumcising,but it's what they believe in and i don't!

I don't think that circumcising a girl will keep her virgin in this case that's what mum's think who do this to her girls!!

 

Wa^salaam

[Macalin]

This, i thought was related to this..its from a major east african newspaper!..Now i doubt the findings but none the less..hey...am sure we can argue abt it!

 

FGM cited as major cause of divorce

By Adow Jubat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is the major cause of divorce and spread of HIV/Aids among the Somali, a regional workshop in Mandera was yesterday told.

 

The Norwegian Church Aid (NCA) Somali team leader Mr Abdirisak Ahamed Jamaa who co-ordinated the workshop said divorce among the Somali community has its roots in FGM.

 

He said women who undergo the retrogressive practice have problems of sticking to one man due to lack of sexual responsiveness.

 

He said a research has shown that uncircumcised women appreciate sex more than mutilated women who treat marriage as a venue for child bearing.

 

He said "our circumcised ladies just value material gains in marriage and not the natural union in it."

 

Jamaa said some men from the Somali community who married outside the ethnic group confessed the pleasure they enjoy in their uncircumcised wives.

 

He said divorce was very high in areas like Ndolo, Lug, Bulahao in Jedo region in Somalia and North Eastern Province in Kenya where the practice is rife.

 

He said FGM was also responsible in the spread of HIV/Aids through the sharing of the tools employed in circumcision.

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Cushtic_Cutie:

I know I'm inviting the wrath of somaliaonline at my doorstep, but if the All Mighty Allah (swt) created us with those parts that make up our genitalia dosn't it seem that they were meant to be there....just a thought some of us should seriously consider!

Indeed.

 

Rahiima:

 

Well said.

 

Nasra:

 

I find your posts amusing. As you never seem to make sense, do you argue exclusively for the sake of arguing?

 

OG-Moti:

 

You argument seems to be based on the assumption that because no Somali woman has ever complained to you about being circumcised, then they must all be happy with it. Interesting way of looking at things. My dear, no woman will tell you about such things unless you're her husband, father or brother. And even then only when necessary.

 

The problems associated with circumcision and infibulation are lifelong, severe, painful and detrimental to a woman's biological and reproductive activities. It is easy to rant and rave about the importance of culture, but believe me, if you were the one finding something as simple as peeing an excruciating experience, you'ld change your song quickly enough! You should try talking to the doctors and midwives who deal with these situations. No psychological scars indeed! :rolleyes:

 

All she said was that culture is not an easy thing to change actualy should not be change, culture makes others identify you as being you and respect you for that. examples

A. Latino ppl in USA, maneged to gain recognition and respect to the extent that some states second language became spanish, thanks to bringing their culture into the states and holding into it.

Let me put something in perspective for you. Culture isn't singular or static, it is dynamic and multifaceted. It changes constantly, with each generation, with each region/country and with each century. There are different interpretations of culture. The culture that may have worked for my great grandmother (who had to walk on foot from Buuhoodle to Burco) won't work for me (I would rather hire a car and drive there). What I mean is that some aspects of culture are maintained by necessity and improvements in productivity, technology, communications and the like make a big difference to everyday life.

 

As for your examples, I think they are very misleading. I'm assuming the cultures (Latino, Indian-American, Jamaican) your referring to here have more to do with commercial entertainment and food than traditional practices. If that is the case, there's nothing stopping Somalia being recognised and respected for its culture either. We have a very rich and positive culture when it comes to our language, poetry, numerous dances, music, folklores and food. What makes you think we'll only be able to gain recognition by maintaining an antediluvian practice of torturing little girls?

 

U asked..."Qaad is tradition and if it is so damaging why did western countries allowed people who eat Qaat to bring them to their countries? makes sense?" Not really. For one thing, Qaad is banned in a lot of these countries and for another, Qaad is damaging to the people who eat it, i.e. us, and not to Western countries. As long as it doesn't affect their population, govts don't care about what happens to a bunch of Somali refugees or what they do with their time. And why should they?

 

If we can denounce tribalism (as so many have done), what makes female circumcision different? With its numerous direct and side-effects, it should be a hell of a lot easier to ban. Why should any of us want to deal with a practice that causes a lot of harm and no benefits whatsoever? If it's solely to please the bigger community, then no thanks. I'm not going to harm my children or deliberately make their futures more difficult than it needs to be to make a few old biddies smile approvingly.

 

Last but not least (for those who misinterpret everything), this is not about our whole culture, it is about the part that condones and encourages something as defective as genital mutilation.

[OG Moti]

My friend barwaaqo, i am amazed this came from you, you said culture should be changed, ok dear listen, with time culture changes and that is called cultural shift, but you know what i ment, taking western culture is not being civilized or better person. only somalis do that, see Arab, latino, indians and others communities they bring their culture to those countries, beleive me sis, something wrong with us, and circumcision does not leave psychological scars, it happens to all somali, sudan and egyptian women and not one complains, i asked the one i love she said it is tradition and she happily accept it.. i am not saying it is right, cause it is not the way they do it but what i dont like is cretizing your culture and calling it backwards,

 

and about QAAD i hate that stuff but no western country banned it, you know it is legal and dont tell me they did it cause it wont effect their population, they start to eat too, if u mean the white man... any way just keep ur culture where ever u go that makes u unique and gives ya others' respect. Peace

[Nazra]

BARWAAQO

 

Our acquiantance hasn't been Barwaaqo, you can leap to all the ACCUSATION and ASSUMPTION you want.

All i can say is maybe arguing is one of my endearing quality, but i guess you missed that.

Not all people have the same OPINIONS, if you don't apreciate my eccentric opinions i will have to suggest to you to SCROLL DOWN the page, and move down to those who you find rather more intersting.

 

PS: I will not apologise for the fact that you can't comprehend my witting. IT'S SOMETHING YOU LACK IN.

[Blessed]

Barwaqo,

 

That was just to the point. You could have given us the benefit of forgetting something. Greedy

 

lol @ Nasra

 

I guess you'll have to add me to your list of those who are incapable of comprehending your arguement quality ... or quality of arguement ... an argument of high quality ... :confused:

[Senora]

OG_Moti

First I would like to tell you, in no attempt to seem rude, but I don’t think you should be allowed to promote something that you as well as the rest of us know you will never understand. For 1) you will never in any way experience what many have gone through. And your words may or may not have much of an effect like those of the women who speak on this topic.

For Istaahil, for those who were so quick to jump on her statement, I’m going to clear up a few things, and defend her for a moment. Ignorance is the act of being uninformed resulting in a lack of knowledge. You have to understand that she’s not in anyway being disrespectful, but that statement is true in some sense. My mother for instance, to get it straight is my best friend, yet we always have disagreements. I was born in america about 20 years ago, and my mother was born and raised back home until she reached the age 18 where she moved to america and has lived here ever since for 21 yrs. My mother is very smart, but she still doesn’t understand that women have rights, and voice. She is still under influence to the patriarchy culture that she grew up to back home. And in a sense my mother can be ignorant. ( for some of U, please pay attention to the definition of the word, B4 U judge). So Yes ,Og_Moti, “ignorance” is the word. And I must add that you sounded very ignorant when you stated “ women wanted it!” How dare you speak for women. Many of the females that go through this process are around the age of 6-10. Can you honeslty say that the young girls have a fair voice! If you really want to know why mothers still go through with it, then pay more attention to my clarification of Istaahil’s quote.

Sometimes it takes a range of information, and a body of facts accumulating over time, to fully understand whether something may be right or wrong (in other words, the act of knowledge).

Og_Moti

For the comment you said about there being no respect to those who try to change culture. So tell me, when hundreds of years ago, slavery was accounted for as the “Norm”, and blacks were seen as the “under race”, was it seen as disrespect when people like Martin Luther King spoke against it. And for those who want to say that this example has no meaning to this topic, let me educate you that culture is the entire range of regular practices, beliefs and social forms, etc. This was seen as the culture for america back then. Just as many of you defend this process as just being “ part of the culture”. Sometimes it may just take people like Rahiima_as-Somali, and myself for ppl to understand its a wrong-doing. So OG_Moti, it wont be seen as a an imitation of one others culture, or as a form of disrespect. But more of a gain for the spread of knowledge, and more of a gain for womens right to express their oppression.

For the comment that the westerners are just trying to make us look bad, and make their culture look good. I disagree, and I believe that we are making ourselves look bad. The whole purpose of this circumcision process is to try and avoid and control womens sexuality. That statement right there totally undermines women. This is just telling me that, we women don’t know how to control ourselves, and something like this can remind us not to do something we shouldn’t be doing. I was born in this country, and did not have to go through this horrific process. I am 20 years old, and still a virgin, and respect the teachings in the quran and the words from my mother. It takes education as well as teachings from someone worthy to promote education( like my mother), to influence someone to do right. We should tell these young women what is wrong and right, and pray that they make the right decision. Not force upon them what they should do with their lives. If men were going through this same process, we would probably hear a totally different side.

Og_Moti- I get the impression that you believe qaad is not damaging. To reply to the statement you made about westerners allowed it, well lets look at alcohol, its drug no doubt about it, ( and ppl please look up this stuff b4 you argue!), but yet its allowed! So if something is allowed, does that not make it bad or damaging? OG, don’t think I’m just picking on you, but sometimes to realize some mistakes is enough to change a whole opinion of someone or something. In just about every culture, women being educated was looked down upon ( read your history books people!). Recently in america and Europe has the majority of female education surpassed that of males. And mind you it’s a small percentage, but to OG and research b4 you try and state something. And for the comment that “ for your info, females are more educated than males”, I hope you know that’s a opinion not a fact. Oh and for the other that states “ it has been going on for thousand of years and I never met a girl that complained” again don’t speak for the whole, I have over a hundreds of family and friends who are somalian girls that have gone threw this process, and well over the majority have disagreed, and hated the process as a whole.

Nasra

Culture as I stated b4 is the regular practices, and beliefs, social forms of a racial or social group. Qaad was and still is a regularly practiced hobby( for some that is!), and the civil wars were seen as social forms for our racial group. What you do with your child is your business, but when you ( In your opinion) state a claim that something like this is good, when you have so many who don’t see it as that way, ( and believe me there are many, I know too many women who feel that way) that is where the problem begins. Don’t in any way think we women are downing you for you opinion, we just want to advise and in some way educate you. If you decide to stick with your opinion then that is your decision, but don’t down our efforts to have a voice for the many women who disagree with this.

Back to OG-Moti, when you say that it has no psychological scars. Let me tell you that, being in that state means that you are affected both mentally and emotionally. I have my cousins who are in that state right now, and my oldest cousin has to take antibiotics because the pain can get very excruciating. The effect goes so far that she doesn’t want to go through childbirth or sex. That’s where the psychological scar comes in. So once again, I’m telling you not to speak on something you haven’t researched well enough. For everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when you claim those to be facts, your stepping beside the lines.

[Nazra]

Ameenah...you are already included to my list

 

and barwaaqo i hope you are following my advice, more like my solution to your problem that you have.

 

Back to the topic...sexy princess i kindda got the picture, at the start that you weren't circumcised.

With all do respect, get yourself educated by starters, reading the hadith that allows women to be circumcised in sunni way...before you JUMP to conclusions.

[Nazra]

Ameenah...you are already included to my list

 

and barwaaqo i hope you are following my advice, more like my solution to your problem that you have.

 

Back to the topic...sexy princess, i kindda got the picture, at the start that you weren't circumcised.(wow)

 

With all do respect, get yourself educated by reading the hadith, that allows women to be circumcised in SUNNI way...before you JUMP to conclusions. If there is any arguments towards circumsion, IT SHOULD BE TOWARDS, THE WAY IT'S DONE not WHY IT'S DONE...in islam circumsion for women, was given a GREEN LIGHT to it.

[Valenteenah.]

^^ :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Ameenah,

 

LoL...sweet qumanyo!

 

Princess Sexy

 

Mansha Allah. That was clearly and concisely put Sis and I must say I agree wit u on every aspect.

[Senora]

Nasra,

I got the feeling that you think that i tried to attack you in a way. If you really read what i wrote, i was not writing about the sunni way in the hadith. Ironically i dont have a problem with that, but i have a problem(like many others) with the "other" way.I disagree with that totally, but let me ask you, so that next time no one else can makes the mistake i made. Do you agree with the FGM that everyone else here argues about?

and Barwaaqo, thank a lot, it makes it all worth it when you have at least ONE person understand/agree with you.

[Nazra]

Sis, i did not feel that you were attacking me in any way...and if u did...it's all kool, as long as u have a reason.

 

I must say...i have find your piece of writing very persuasive and interesting...with all the facts and supports that many ppl lack in without any knowlegde....( u did a great job there sis)

 

BUT...next time..make it CLEAR the process you are talking about about THE HARD WAY or the ESAY WAY. Also in future with other issues.

 

Keep it up Barwaaqo (good job)