Battle of sexes

[xiinfaniin]

^CabdiNur meel cidla buu kaa cayrsanayaa ee waxba ma aadan bi'in, yaa Xoogsade .

 

Even if good naden meant you not to use her cyber name when addressing her in this forum that, I am afraid, would not be an honorable wish. And on another level it would be absurd for one to wish that.

[Naden]

Originally posted by AbdulNoor:

by implying because she doesn't want you to mention her name in debates with u, she is somehow not a "real woman". I think how she handled herself shows that she is indeed an intelligent woman. Just respect her wishes brother, no need to say what u said.

Thank you.

 

It takes some practice to recognize and ignore trollish behaviour on a public forum.

[Naden]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

naden

There, I addressed your fears if that is why you didn't want your name as addressee. If you were offended by what I said, then it is your prerogative to address them or ignore them. And if you don't want your name be mentioned altogether when I or others reply in these topics, then I am afraid you will have to call off participation in public forums and in this particular situation let real women like

Ahura

pick up the torch

I am sure she has got something to say to me.

 

Hornafrique

Good question

[/QB]

I have no fears that need to be addressed on an annonymous online forum.

 

I was not offended by what you said. I was indifferent. It is not the mentioning of a name that I asked you not to (I mention names all the times), it is the addressing of your sermon in my direction. It is a public forum, and unless asking a specific question or making a specific comment, kindly direct your lecture at the public.

[Castro]

^ Being a veteran troll myself, I encourage you to call Xoogsade's bluff and engage him. Think about it. Some of his arguments are legit and some are not. Acknowledge the good ones and make him "wear a skirt" on the poor ones.

 

HornAfrique, on the other hand, you can safely ignore. No point really bringing a firearm to his knife-fight.

[xiinfaniin]

^I thought she could handle both .

[Castro]

^ Possibly. It depends on what she (or anyone really) wants to achieve by engagement. Though this particular issue has been discussed frequently on this forum, new blood and new ideas are always around the corner. I encourged Naden to go ahead and indulge Xoogsade not to make this into a tit-for-tat but to explore the issues at hand and really exercise some thinking. Believe it or not, I read these back and forths between two SOLers that go beyond the screaming and shouting. And I still have hope that good HornAfrique could diversify his clear talents in the political section into other arenas. Surely it can be done.

[Xoogsade]

Hey odayaasha, xiin and Castro (it feels good to call others Odayaasha lol) after greetings, thanks for your input.

 

Castro

 

You are as good as naden or anyone with an objection to raise a voice. That is the whole idea of public forum. So castro, fire away at what you said were wrong views in my earlier post.

 

 

naden

 

If you were indifferent, you wouldn't have replied. I assume you know forms of argumentations one of which was employed socrates where he reduced his opponent's views to absurdity then suggested better opinions. You tried to belittle my ideas but failed to use a better method. In your case, you admitted defeat by telling me not to address you. All of a sudden, I was taken back in time when I was a kid and I used to tell my opponents, ha ila hadlin

 

Anyway, you get your wish and I won't mention your name although I think it is more respectful to address people directly when you want to talk to them. Tata, I must get back to work.

 

Bro

 

Xiin and Castro, good to see you guys this late. I am wondering if you have permission to be online and you aren't suspected of some folly

[Castro]

^ LOL. Islaantii caawa cashadaan dawo lagu seexdo ugu daray. I'm trying to catch up on March Madness on ESPN. The only time I'm allowed to watch sports is when everyone is asleep.

 

On the topic, I wanted to respond but changed my mind figuring Naden would take your bait. I still hope she will.

[Naden]

^ I have no issues engaging someone in a debate and I just might do it at a later time when I have both the energy and the inclination. The poster's essay does have legitimate arguments and weak ones as well. However, I reserve the right to debate/post opinions when I am interested in doing so not when taunted as some resident feminist objector. The issues are worth debating and a later post/thread might do them justice.

[Castro]

^ I'm the resident feminist objector dear. You have to have 2000+ posts to even apply for that position.

 

Glad you're contemplating a response. If for nothing else, the gallery needs it.

[Naden]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

naden

If you were indifferent, you wouldn't have replied. I assume you know forms of argumentations one of which was employed socrates where he reduced his opponent's views to absurdity then suggested better opinions. You tried to belittle my ideas but failed to use a better method. In your case, you admitted defeat by telling me not to address you. All of a sudden, I was taken back in time when I was a kid and I used to tell my opponents, ha ila hadlin

Anyway, you get your wish and I won't mention your name although I think it is more respectful to address people directly when you want to talk to them. Tata, I must get back to work.

I was being polite when I said I was 'indifferent' to your long-winded, full of half-baked opinions piece. If you really want to debate the issue of abortion, you would consider factors such as the availability of contraception to poor women and family planning within muslim communities. You might even bring yourself to mention the recourse available to women when faced with an unwanted pregnancy either outside of marriage or within a marriage in a large and otherwise impoverished family. This is how you addressed it in your piece: If her legs remain shut till she finds her desired man and with a contract to boot, she won't need to be a murderer and live with a troubled conscience for life. In case you had no instruction on the birds and the bees as a youngster, it takes a man and a woman to create a pregnancy; the guarding of body parts (by shutting of legs or tucking a certain organ in) is a must for all muslims.

 

Anyways, the best source for feminist failures is the West, their achievements, although touted as great, still doesn't amount to the full rights their creator wanted them to have.

 

Rights maybe guaranteed by god but they have to be garnered by people. They have to be realized, articulated, fought for and constantly reformed to fit the times. It's easy to brand feminism as 'extremist' or to claim that women are still 'dominated' in the west. Many rights in the west are yet to be earned but there is no other place where protection of rights and access to all that life has to offer is fought for and gained.

 

On the other side of the specturm, Where late marriages were encouraged, and extreme feminism took hold as in Europe, They are experiencing the effect of dwindling populations as their citizens grew older and replacements for them are not available.

 

'Extreme feminism' is not the only reason these societies are dealing with reduced birth rates. Economic and social conditions have made starting families or having large ones a challenge for most. Societies' birthrates ebb and flow with the times. Bonnie Smith's 'Changing Lives: Women in European History Since 1700' can point to some of these conditions. Women delaying marriage, as you point out, is no doubt one of the determinants of a low birthrate and failure to replace a generation adequately. Marriage and birthrates are also more than a woman choosing to go back to the 'basics' (I'm assuming it means a natural role as mother/wife). It is an entire society's dilemma and its readiness to support social welfare policies that aid a whole family of mother/father and children and not to mention elderly/sick parents. The issues are a lot deeper than a choice a woman makes between a career and having children as in your statement that They weren't thinking about the biological clock and the health effects of late pregnancies. Your arguments present valid points. However, you might inject the man's changing role in the rearing of a family every once in a while instead of the tired and comfortable bashing of feminists or the choices that some women make. I agree with you that governments should not regulate the size of families and you make a sound argument about the difficulties that will surely face societies that are now exercising infanticide.

 

I did not belittle your ideas, I was puzzled that you would address one person when obviously expressing a long list of thoughts about a wide topic. It was not meant to disrespect but to ask & encourage you not to post it as though it was a back-and-forth argument of two people who are disagreeing. We were not. This is not to take away from your argument but to engage everyone who reads/posts in the thread. This site has a way of watching an argument like it was a bullfight. It is fun to take part in and/or watch but it must be actually occurring.

 

You, on the other hand, showed little respect even in the face of respectful discourse. I can get down and dirty but that depends on how I feel about a topic, and even then, I try my best not direct it at a person but an idea. I don't always do it but I try. You, unfortunately, show absolutely no class. If you are thirsting to pick a fight with a 'real woman', then keep your arguments open to all. Your bait just might be picked up by one.

[Naden]

Originally posted by Castro:

[QB] ^ I'm the resident feminist objector dear. You have to have 2000+ posts to even apply for that position.

Glad you're contemplating a response. If for nothing else, the gallery needs it.

I will hold my application till then .

[Xoogsade]

naden, I hope you agree with me now that brevity is no use when it comes to discussing important issues like feminism. You can only say that much in one post and I am certain you still have important aspects of feminism to address. It is a life long issue and people across the world have a stake in it as the feminist ideologies and their movements shape their systems and consequently their lives.

 

While it takes two to bring about pregnancy, the psychological burden of abortion affects only the woman and the result of the operation might even be worse than raising an innocent kid who will love her eventually. The man who got her pregnant played his sinful role and screwed up the woman, likely abandones her to the elements and might be preying on another, however, since this issue is feminism, I thought women were the priority without forgetting the culprit who is the purveyor of pains. One can only prioratize what seems more important to their mind without necessarily forgetting the full story when they write. Contraceptions and birth control belong to the conversation and have their own merit. I didn't forget about them. However, while they are acceptable, question is, who uses it? and when? In islamic countries, people will surely give priority to abstention where unmarried people are concerned, in the West, sometimes distinctions are made and most often not, abstention was frawned upon as a method of prevention untill recently and is gaining pace right now as christian conservatives seem to have the upper hand in social issues in America. Should kids have unfettered acces to birth control? Should kids be encouraged to abstain? What about sex education in schools? The list of concerns is endless and can not be discussed in one single post.

 

Anyways, I have already written too long and don't intend to bore you more with my diatribe as that seemed to have been what you deduced from my write-ups. I let someone else pick up from where they feel necessary and will happily enjoy the role of a reader if I get time.

 

And finally, My classlessness is not important but the subject matter and what you think is. If you eloquently put your points across, you don't need to mention how twisted or low someone is. Classlessness of the other or his malcontentedness will automatically be obvious to others without you mentioning them. Just a tip and hope you don't see this again as me dictating a list of ettiquetts you have to do. I need them as much.

 

I have written too long and feel like I haven't said enough, but this will suffice it.

 

 

Castro

 

Thanks for getting her to talk It is your return to discuss the issues as I have said what I wanted to say. I am not good with handling women ya know lol. I live upto my name saxib.

[opportunist]

Contraceptions and birth control belong to the conversation and have their own merit. I didn't forget about them. However, while they are acceptable, question is, who uses it?>>>>>> anyone with thier thinking cap would seemingly use them if they would like to oviod similar situations of a current discussed mishaps of what You described scenoria....talking about contraception shouldnt be an alternative but a an option that is widely used at all times and made of an habit like brushing your teeth is before going to bed.

 

 

and when? >> out of simpilicity One would assume, when one decides to have such relationships or thoughts in ones head.as each individual is only responsible for thier own consequences

 

In islamic countries, people will surely give priority to abstention where unmarried people are concerned,>>>> which islamic nation would U have in mind, just a food for thought, since I dont see no islamic nation practising this, none at all, its human nature for ppl to do or exercise for things that have been forbidden as an accident by human curiousity or to do so knowling they are in the wrong simply Noh!

 

Should kids have unfettered acces to birth control? >> indeed they should, as this should help them in thier near future on how to tackle such situation that some of us lacked in our childhood on how Should we approach such so and so issue,sitaution at hand should it come knocking out of the blue.

 

kids be encouraged to abstain? Nope coz kids wil always will be kidds and no matter on what You tell is bad for them, they shall encounter on a mission to seek for themselves, therefore the best protections is education of what lies ahead of them, be it sexual 101 lesson or whatever U deemed to be a must info to pass on as parent. What about sex education in schools?>>>>>its very very Vital to educate young inoccent kids of what lies out there, and sex educations should be a mandatory subject.

 

The list of concerns is endless and can not be discussed in one single post. >>>>>>true that, one hopes that the best they could do is pass their wisedom and learnt mishaps to their children when times comes along to pass on self learnt knowlwedge.Instead of being a total hypocrites and pretending that back in thier times all was holy and everything was followed as the book ordered

[makalajabti]

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

Why is it that in (American) feminism and liberalism, a woman considers herself an equal when she is allowed to wear

pants

but a man does not need to wear a skirt to feel the equal?

Because men were born free. No social model and no religion have ever discriminated them against women . They take everything for granted.