Why Teach the Shoah?

[RedSea]

ASSALAMU CALAYKUM,

 

Brother Castro I personally thank you for putting forth such questions.

 

First to answer your question of whether one disagrees with the stated statement. My answer is that Holocaust only matters in my opinion to those who consider themselves Jews or those who are with the Jews. It doesn't and shouldn't in anyway shape or form be regarded as an sad event. I believe that Jews are historically hard headed people and still are, they probably done something wrong previously that led Hitler to go all out on them. They are trageressors who break the borders of Allah and any punishment that comes upon them is therefore well deserved.

 

The Palestine of today as well as Iraq and Afghanistan are all worse than Holocaust, although the Holocuast had greater number of victims but they were not Muslims. One Muslim being killed wieghts more than the whole universe. A believer who has been murdered is worse mentioning than millions of non believers who try really hard to weaken Muslims.

 

Finally, I just wanted to bring about that Jews have denied all the Prophets that were sent to them and even killed some of them, they turn their backs on Allah and apperantly haven't learned anything from Holocaust therefore anything that can be considered as "evil" by them is a result of their commited crimes and Allah is making them pay. In the hereafter, they will be the fuel of hell fire so woe to them for what they have earn.

 

Salamu Calaykum.

[bilan]

Originally posted by Red sea:

ASSALAMU CALAYKUM,

 

Brother Castro I personally thank you for putting forth such questions.

 

First to answer your question of whether one disagrees with the stated statement. My answer is that Holocaust only matters in my opinion to those who consider themselves Jews or those who are with the Jews. It doesn't and shouldn't in anyway shape or form be regarded as an sad event. I believe that Jews are historically hard headed people and still are, they probably done something wrong previously that led Hitler to go all out on them. They are trageressors who break the borders of Allah and any punishment that comes upon them is therefore well deserved.

 

The Palestine of today as well as Iraq and Afghanistan are all worse than Holocaust, although the Holocuast had greater number of victims but they were not Muslims. One Muslim being killed wieghts more than the whole universe. A believer who has been murdered is worse mentioning than millions of non believers who try really hard to weaken Muslims.

 

Finally, I just wanted to bring about that Jews have denied all the Prophets that were sent to them and even killed some of them, they turn their backs on Allah and apperantly haven't learned anything from Holocaust therefore anything that can be considered as "evil" by them is a result of their commited crimes and Allah is making them pay. In the hereafter, they will be the fuel of hell fire so woe to them for what they have earn.

 

Salamu Calaykum.

wait a minute, where in the quran or sunnah that islam condones act of genocide. six million people including children and innocent helpless people are killed,there is nothing in islam that justfies this. did not the prophet forbid killing children.women, or civillians, so where you get the idea that it is ok to kill jews.what is happening in palestine is wrong and what happened 50 years ago was wrong too. hitler was racist and he would have treated muslims worst than that. also as long as muslims are blaming their problems on other people we will never get anywhere. what happened taking responsibility of our actions. americans or isrealis would not be able to invade iraq or palestine if arab countries did not help them,so put the blame where it belongs to.

[FatB]

Could I for a moment shift your attentions to the origin of the term "Holocaust" and its affects? The concept of "holocaust" first originated in the struggle of the native South Africans against the Boer (Dutch "invader" of South Africa) and British. The Boer war of 1889 to 1902

 

As the Jews were tortured and many ultimately killed by the Nazis the poor South African natives suffered equal and in some cases worse treatments by the Boer and the British.

 

Now let us not get carried away with overly sympathetic understanding for the Jewish people’s plight in that 4 year period were according to their (the Jewish authorities) reports 6 million jaws died. I ask you what about all the gypsies and non Arian people who too were burned and gassed alive?

 

I sincerely believe that after being forced to learn and visit Jewish museums for 4 years of my schooling life that these people who have been cursed by Allah are simply milking “it†for all what its worth.

[Castro]

Originally posted by tHe oNe aNd OnLy:

Now let us not get carried away with overly sympathetic understanding for the Jewish people’s plight in that 4 year period were according to their (the Jewish authorities) reports 6 million jaws died.

^ What 'Jewish authority' is keeping the memory of the Holocaust alive? And why do you think they've been so successful if everyone understands this to be propaganda?

[Cara.]

The Holocaust should never be forgotten so long as people blame Jews, call them cursed, downplay their blight, and otherwise make being a Jew uniquely difficult. It doesn't surprise me that a few are playing that tune on this thread. It turns my stomach that someone is suggesting, on the one hand, that Jews "overplay" the Holocaust, while at the same time calling them cursed by Allah. How the frig do you overplay being targetted for mass murder? Is there a way to take gas chambers philosophically?

 

A bright bulb even suggested that the Jews must have done something to piss off Hitler, and so they actually deserved what happened. Hey genius, does that mean what's happening to Muslims is well deserved? Russia, India, America, Serbia, China, the list of countries with a beef against Muslims grows by the day, it seems. The Muslims are to blame, obviously.

 

As for the extremely well-informed dude who accused the Jews of "crying like little girls", I wonder how you would react if 1 in 3 Somalis was wiped off the face of the Earth? Count all your near and dear, then go ahead and imagine a third was murdered for no other reason that that they were Somalis.

 

Castro asked why other holocausts don't get the same recognition. Should they? The Rwandan genocide was disorganized mass hysteria which did kill many people, but it did not arise out of international hatred and scapegoating of an entire race. The Hutu killers used machettes and guns, not efficient machinery that stretched across a continent. "Holy" books don't teach that Tutsis are cursed in the sight of the Creator of the Universe. Few people blame Africans for being preyed on by White slavers.

 

However, the way I was taught the Holocaust was not with emphasis on the race of the victims, but as a cautionary tale: don't allow your government to distract you from real problems by presenting imaginary demons; don't let people act like sheep, going with the flock because that's the path of least resistance; don't let others think for you. These lessons are well-wasted on some whose hatred for the victims of the Holocaust clouds reason.

[FatB]

^ jew jew jew

[FatB]

The Holocaust should never be forgotten so long as people blame Jews, call them cursed, downplay their blight, and otherwise make being a Jew uniquely difficult

I am bemused and find little meaning in your out burst here. Could you elaborate on what you mean by “How the frig do you overplay being targetted for mass murder? Is there a way to take gas chambers philosophically?â€

 

I am some what lost in understandings in the contention in this piece are you begging by bluntness… insulting me for my remark about Jews being cures by god?

 

“Jews must have done something to piss off Hitler†yes the Jews did piss of Hitler…I would have assumed being the affluent critic you are you would be well informed for the reason of hitters hatred of the Jews!

 

“I wonder how you would react if 1 in 3 Somalis was wiped off the face of the Earth? Count all your near and dear, then go ahead and imagine a third was murdered for no other reason that that they were Somalis.†My friend now I believe you have some what scratched the surface of the plight of the poor Palestinian people and the predicament they face each and every day.

 

“…Some [people’s] hatred for the victims of the Holocaust clouds…â€

My friend let as make one thing clear I have no hatred for the “victoms†of the holocaust only for those who constantly bombard children’s minds with one sided subjective recollections of an incident that happed almost 60 years ago… when is enough, enough?

[Yeniceri]

Originally posted by Castro:

Are they the 'chosen people' or what?

That's a very abstract question, which can only get an abstract answer: Who's to say? :confused:

 

Originally posted by Red sea:

They are trageressors who break the borders of Allah and any punishment that comes upon them is therefore well deserved.

Using this same definition, I can say that many in the Muslim Ummah (i.e. Somalis) deserve any punishment they get - even annahilation - because they're hypocrites and transgressors. The non-believers' reason for transgressing is that they don't know any better. What of the munaafiquun, who know Islam and yet transgress its most basic tenets? I believe the type of judgment you placed upon the Jews should also apply to all of mankind, including us Muslims.

 

Originally posted by Callypso:

dude who accused the Jews of "crying like little girls", I wonder how you would react if 1 in 3 Somalis was wiped off the face of the Earth?

Despite what you're implying, with me, an innocent human being persecuted and murdered is just that: wrong, regardless of race or religion. The "little girls" comment was in regards to the living Jews who used all means in their hands to propagate the Jewish Holocaust as "the" Holocaust, as if it was the only holocaust in human history.

 

Castro asked why other holocausts don't get the same recognition. Should they?

Why shouldn't they: Aren't innocent human beings maimed and murdered all the same? Tutsis, regardless of who attacked them, faced mass extermination. Where was the help then? Where was the Allied invasion of Kigali then? And what importance is the weapon of choice? Whether its a missile or a machete, they both have the same result: death. The Rwandans didn't have the world's attention, nor did they have the economic capability to gain and maintain the world's attention. But they fought back without anyone's help - Colonel Paul Kagame, a Tutsi, is still the president of Rwanda.

 

At the end of the day, a holocaust is a holocaust and a genocide is a genocide. The difference is made by how the survivors of such atrocities market and propagate their suffering to the world stage. The Jews, history has shown, are particularly gifted in portraying their agony to the world stage - and using it to justify the controversial policies of Tel Aviv, inc. torture, assassinations, executions, and military invasion of others' homelands.

 

Let's not forget their gross misuse of global pity.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Yeniceri:

Let's not forget their gross misuse of global pity.

The commemorations of the Holocaust, in my view, are appropriate and have not reached the status of overkill or saturation, yet. They are, however, being used by some to overshadow attrocities and injustices being perpertrated by the state of Israel. For example, one would think an anti-semite is one who discriminates againts Semites, right? Not quite. An anti-semite today is one who speaks against the brutal occupation of Palestine by the Israelis. So the politicization of anti-semitism and the Holocaust is what disturbs me. It's not whether the Holocaust is fact or whether its commemorations are too much. Yeniceri is on to something when he made the statement above. I believe the global, and deserved, pity given to Jews (due to the Holocaust) is being spent unwisely. Not unlike the pity bestowed upon Americans following the 9/11 events. And we all know how the world feels about America now. My point is, if some Jews (within and without Israel) find it necessary to engage in questionable (possibly immoral and illegal) behavior by occupying the Palestinians, they cannot continually hold the moral high ground afforded to them by Hitler and his goons. The Holocaust stands, on its own, as a monument to the evil of which we're all capable. To bilk that monument for today's aggressions is equally evil and immoral, in my view.

 

P.S. I'm off to watch Syriana and reflect on this. :cool:

[STOIC]

^^The most striking feature is how much of the holocaust has been shoved down on many people's throat.Most may view this as an attempt by the Jews to gain more sympathy and more power.Granting that they may be pushing the whole thing to the limit, it shouldn't make one re-write history by denying the actions of Hitler's evil.

PS: I am busy with the final exams now; i will be more than happy to read more of this latter.

 

PSS: Hope you enjoy Syriana.I will watch it next week with one of my girlfreinds(not a lover ).

[N.O.R.F]

I have been ignoring clcking on this topic (dont know why) but its probably the most interesting on SOL right now. Congrats to Castro (odhey!)

 

The holocoast is a significant event in modern times and should be commemorated. BUT, why is it commemorated to the extent of if not commemorating it will mean your anti-semetic? The capitalisation of the Jewish organisations of all the media within its grasp has contributed greatly to this perception.

 

You have countries such GB who cannot wait to commemorate this event every year. Is it because GB actually helped Hitler into power and have a guilty concience? Hence also the latter events in Palestine?

 

Callypso:

 

the Holocaust was not with emphasis on the race of the victims, but as a cautionary tale: don't allow your government to distract you from real problems by presenting imaginary demons; don't let people act like sheep, going with the flock because that's the path of least resistance; don't let others think for you. These lessons are well-wasted on some whose hatred for the victims of the Holocaust clouds reason.

Thats exactly what the Zionists are doing today ie manipulating events/people in order to obtain favouritism in fighting the 'enemy'-Muslims by using mass media.

[Viking]

Over 25 million Russians died in WWII, over a million Rwandese were massacred in 1994 and over 5 million Congolese people have been killed in the last 5 years. Yet, people are constantly reminded and made to feel guilty over the death of European Jews. :mad:

[Castro]

^ Who's fault is it, atheer, that we're not reminded or "made to feel guilty" over the mass death of Russians and the genocide in Rwanda? Is it those whose competence and fortitude will not let the memory of their people fade? Or is it those with enough languor and lethargy that can't (or won't) remember their dead and remind others of it?

[Yeniceri]

Originally posted by Castro:

...the

politicization

of anti-semitism and the Holocaust is what disturbs me...Not unlike the pity bestowed upon Americans following the 9/11 events.

A most interesting comparison, and not far off from the truth, I must add. The Jewish Holocaust is the Holocaust, because its been politicized (over-politicized, some would say) to its limit.

 

Now, ponder over this: While its not a crime to deny the existence of Allah (God), its actually a chargable crime to deny "the" [Jewish] Holocaust. Tell me the sense in that.

 

On the other hand, there is no question that the politicization of 9/11 is the primary reason the U.S. is currently engulfed in the Iraqi quagmire. The ambiguous reason for attacking Iraq was alleged links between 9/11 and the Saddam regime (all such accusations have been disproved over time), on top of the false WMD allegations. 9/11 was politicized by the Bush administration at a much faster rate, due to ease of global communications, than was "the" [Jewish] Holocaust.

 

Same policy, same results: today, the State of Israel is engaged in a wide range of human rights abuses and persecution of innocent civilians, and so is the U.S. The once-oppressed (or wronged), became the oppressors (and wrong-doers), their evil acts protected under the facade of "seeking justice" or some other speechwriters' hypocritical non-sense.

[Medley of extemporanea]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

But I wonder if it’s being deliberately blown out of proportion to keep that century’s wound forever raw . Is it a unique? What about the fate of Muslims of Andalus? What about that of the fall of Baghdad in the hands of Kings Khan?

Xiinfaniin, buddy, how could you say such a thing! I think it's important that the memory of it be kept clear and 'raw'. Maybe if the reaction to the many crimes against people before the Nazi's were kept 'raw', the crimes of the nazi's and those after them would not have happended.

 

With history, if you don't remember it, you'll just repeat it.