Nobody's Fault.

[OLOL]

We are asked to condemn the London Bombings and we did. We are asked not to be silent of these terror acts and we voiced our unequivocal opposition and dicontent with the terror groups . Our scholars and Ulemma issued Fatwas against Terrorism and Suicide Bombings. We have been asked to not let our religion being hijacked by few fanatics and we cowered to the call. What more do they want?

We can’t voice Muslim grievances about their foreign policy. we can't talk about the genocide of Fallujah,If we do, we are terrorist sympathizers. Whatever we do, they will not be happy with us. ( read Quran)They won't stop their constant denigration and dehumanization. We have bigoted “Orientalists†experts in their media outlets continually defaming our religion and prophet.

 

We tolerate the daily incriminating looks and vile glances, we tolerate the constant harassment and name calling of our kids in school...Our sisters are not allowed to wear their Hijabs? (Look at France) The Azhar Mufti was forced to acquiesce and urge Muslims to conform to the French Hijab ban. Our beardos are being incarcerated indefinitely without due process (after 9/11) – now Imams will be appointed by the secret service. We became so frightened that we have developed an inferiority complex. we are cornered so badly and shitting in our pants! What is coming in theatre soon? Encampment alla Gitzmo, assimilation? Name changes? we already have brothers and sisters reflecting of changing their names. At hospitals, moms giving birth are urged to think the future of their kids and don't punish thier new born babies by giving them Muslim names. Nadia and Hannah are now so popular among Somali mothers in the US for these names sound somewhat western b...And to add more pain to this insult, we have those weak coward sell-outs rushing to please their masters and accusing us of duplicity and complicity.

 

Jews terrorized Palestinians to oust them of their land because the Jewish “GOD†promised “Moses†the land. If you try to speak about the occupation of Palestine, the daily killings of their children, demolitions of their houses, the bombardment of Israel against them, you will be labelled with “Anti-Semitism†...Who could dare to ask Jews collectively to apologize for the atrocities committed by their government?

 

How many Christian nations have nuclear bombs and used it against non-Christians. (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) Ever heard of Christian Bomb? Never! But you are familiar with the “ISLAMIC BOMB†because Pakistan has one – that is nothing compared to the one Israel has.

 

America, “the home of the brave and the land of the free†came into existence by genocidal means. 12 millions (conservative estimate) of natives were wiped out and no one can call that a holocaust. Black “Americans†can’t ask for reparations for the 400 years of slavery.... they gave up on the “40 Acres & Mule†promised to the freed slaves. Europe colonized Africa for centuries and ever heard any apology from her Excellency? I could go on and on with this and the pages of this forum won't be enough...if we try to bring these "white" nations to court for their crimes against humanity....and agaisnt "Non-white" people ....they can't defend themselves.

 

You figure out what is the common denominator here? Islam is the "evil" religion ... our enemy! let us get rid of a quarter of humanity!

[OLOL]

recognize this ? it was back then in ..Canada! in 2002!

 

Toronto Star

Dec. 6, 2002

How long must Muslims apologize?

 

RIAD SALOOJEE

As Al Qaeda's spree of senseless slaughter threatens to continue unabated, Muslims everywhere find themselves bound to an unending logic of denial and dissociation.

 

Precisely because Osama bin Laden speaks in the name of Islam, Muslim communities have been galvanized into action.

 

If Muslims do not provide their own lived narrative of Islam, their faith will continue to be hijacked by a band of violent, narrow-minded bigots.

 

Even before the events of Sept. 11, Muslims bore a special responsibility to represent Islam truly. For what is normative in Islam is, unlike the case with Christianity and Judaism, relatively unknown in many Western societies.

 

Christians, for example, never had to explain or apologize for the Christianity of David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, or even the Christianity-laden pretext of white South Africa's apartheid policy. [or, for that matter, the right-wing racist survivalists.]

 

Islam, still seen by many to be foreign and exotic, is known mostly through the prism of catastrophic events.

 

As one journalist pointed out, we only learn of Islam when there is a bang-bang overseas, or when the tectonic plates in the Muslim world start to grate and shift. Islam thus tends to be understood through the norm of the extreme.

 

The post-9/11 world has put a greater onus on Muslims.

 

Often, however, this has been a case for more than just great expectations.

 

Even though Canadian Muslims unequivocally condemned the killing of innocents in the name of Islam - a fact that was prolifically covered in the Canadian press from coast to coast - the charge of a complicit silence was frequently levied against them.

 

Muslims, it was alleged, remained silent and said little. A corollary, and recurrent theme, was that Canadian Muslims were slow to prove their loyalty and patriotism.

 

In short, Muslims were held to a more rigorous standard than their compatriots - and found to come up short.

 

They faced, as another commentator suggested, a "stiffer test of patriotism" than their fellow Canadians. And even with the prolific condemnation, it was at times asserted that the dissociation was not true or authentic.

 

Rather, it was peremptory, even obligatory. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

The bar of culpability seems fixed rigidly to guilt by religious association.

 

The blame game continues. Even now, with every new attack, pundits sit in ivory towers of self-righteousness and demand fresh new condemnations from innocent bystanders.

 

Many requests are so harsh, so venomous, that no amount of condemnation will ever suffice. We are witnessing, instead, the politics of ethical

one-upmanship that asserts a quota on morality but, in reality, corners the market when it comes to moral chauvinism.

 

Rarely, for example, is the U.S. brought to task for creating the Bin Laden Frankenstein, supporting and arming him to the teeth.

 

Nor is Russia asked to apologize for invading Afghanistan, brutalizing it for a decade, and creating a climate of internecine warfare and extremism.

 

Or, for that matter, is Israel called on to rectify its brutal and morally unjustifiable occupation that provides fuel to these twisted conflagrations of hatred. Indeed, one detects through these omissions that the apportioning of blame to Muslims en masse has an ugly racial face.

 

When, for example, was world Jewry called to account for Israel's flagrant violation of international law and, just recently, according to Amnesty International, its war crimes in refugee camps?

 

No matter what the future holds, Muslims must continue to dissociate themselves from Al Qaeda. For bad and worse, their silence is presumed to be consent.

 

Still, an appeal ought to be made for moral symmetry.

 

It is often forgotten that hundreds of Muslims perished in the attacks as well. The attackers were not interested in filtering out believer from non-believer.

 

And their actions ought to speak louder than our words of denial and dissociation.

 

We - that's right, we - were all the same to them.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by OLOL:

What is coming in theatre soon? Encampment alla Gitzmo, assimilation?

The West, though it can do, cannot afford Encampment alla Gitzmo, because it's costly (in term of dollars), and because it will represent the final separation between the West & Muslims who are infatuated with the West & its civilization. This certainly will also alienate Muslim secularists. Assimilation simply will not work. The French tried it to perfection, but failed.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Bishaaro:

^^

Dirdiraale.

I know. Unfortunately, there's just not enough supply of bacaad in London.

[Viking]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Viking

saaxib, I could try everything in my power and write long or short sentences to help you understand but I can’t teach you to READ. Stop being emotional and read my words.

 

I’ve replied to all your questions a dozen times already. If you CAN’T READ, it’s your shortcoming and not a failing in my ability to write. Go back and READ my words again, and again, and again. Try to comprehend them then come back and have a mature discussion with me. This is still obtuse.

NGONGE,

Thank you for your wise response and your kind words. I will now go back and try to re-read everything you have written on these boards so far. Pray for me so that I grasp the very few wisdom-filled words that you have tucked away somewhere in the loooooong passages you've written for the obtuse on SOL.

[Valenteenah.]

Love the sarcasm.

[Pujah.]

I think this article is relevant here.

--------------------------------------------------

 

Dr Imran Waheed is the media representative of Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain

 

To hold the Muslim community entirely responsible for the actions of a few is highly irresponsible and will do little for community relations.

 

This attitude will only alienate Muslims from the wider society and reinforce the perception that Britain is a divided society. What is required is for the whole society to accept responsibility for 7/7.

 

It is time to do away with the tired labels of 'extremist' and 'moderate'; even people who hold dissimilar and disparate views can engage in dialogue.

 

The British government needs to re-examine its policy of interference in the Muslim world, which started well before the Iraq war.

 

The contradiction of espousing democratic values at home while supporting dictatorships throughout the Muslim world sits uncomfortably with many Muslims living Britain.

 

This feeling has been further accentuated by the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as Britain's support for America's war against terror, which opinion polls suggest Muslims widely perceive to be a war against Islam.

 

The British media also has an important role to play. The media needs to stop demonising Muslims and fanning the flames of Islamophobia.

 

The media has to become more objective in its presentation of Islam and the Muslim community.

 

Since the events of 9/11 we have seen the gradual depoliticisation of our mosques and centres of learning - during the Iraq war few Imams discussed the real extent of civilian casualties and fewer still channelled the anger and frustration of the Muslim community into Islamic political activism.

 

This state of affairs cannot continue; our younger generation need to see that our mosques are open forums for discussing local, national and international issues.

 

The Muslim community for its part needs to do much more, not only to confront those who seek to perpetrate such acts, but also to open up their mosques, community centres and houses to the wider society, including non-Muslims.

 

We have to be proactive as a community in working to dispel the many myths that exist about Islam.

 

Every Muslim needs to consider themselves to be an ambassador of Islam for the wider of society.

[-Serenity-]

Making excuses for Terrorism

 

Efforts to link the bombs in London to Britain ’s involvement in Iraq are worthless and a badly timed justification. Egypt , a country which did not send any soldiers to fight in Iraq and has always opposed the war, has also been the victim of terrorism in Sharm al Sheikh. Claiming the London explosions are a consequence of the British government’s participation in the war in Iraq lacks is devoid of any historical knowledge. After all, the ideology of al Qaeda and its affiliates is denouncing people as infidels and killing innocent civilians.

 

Whether Britain had taken part in the war in Iraq or not, the country would still be a target for al Qaeda. The British Isles have been chosen by the extremists as a safe house where they can expand, raise their children and recruit more followers to spread their ideology.

 

If this prove anything, it is that Britain is one of the most generous host countries in Europe, to the extent that is has allowed its territories to be filled with deadly scorpions who are waiting for the appropriate time to leave their nests and sting their hosts. The latest attacks in London are a direct result of the government’s recklessness and its lenient attitude toward extremists it has refrained from deporting in the last fifty years.

 

Let me remind the reader of the reactions in some sections of the media to terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia . Many alleged the bombings were a reaction to the presence of US military forces in the region, after the first Gulf War. Yet, an analysis of events in the last few years clearly demonstrates that the number of attacks rose after US forces withdrew from the Kingdom, thereby contradicting these claims. Terrorists never attacks US forces stationed in nearby Qatar , who sent its soldiers to fight in Iraq .

 

It was inevitable that Britain will get attacked. The question was not if, but when. Terrorists and their sympathizers decided to abuse the government’s lax attitude and its open door policy for extremists. Certainly, the Iraq war provided the impetus and helped with funding and propaganda. It also meant different groups joined forces and more individuals fell pray to extremism.

 

However, the truth of the matter is, terrorism began in Afghanistan and was exported to Iraq, the Persian Gulf region, and Egypt, even affecting countries that have not taken part in the war, such as Yemen, Indonesia, and the Netherlands.

 

Justifying the London attacks and arguing events in Iraq are to blame only serves to perpetuate lies. In reality, terrorism is an ideological disease we need to get rid of. The most recent bombings in the resort town herald a new round in the war on terror that require a comprehensive understanding of the causes of the attack. London and Sharm al Sheikh are the latest pieces in the big puzzle that is terrorism, currently spreading its wings around the world. They are not internal problems but part of a wider global conflict that must be confronted socially and collectively

 

Making excuses for Terrorism

 

 

This article sums it up great.

[Viking]

7 of Nine,

Are you serious? Do you believe what the article says? Netherlands was involved in the war in Iraq, but I don't know how they were "affected". Why isn't Dublin, Oslo, Geneva, Berlin, Brussels, Stockholm, Helsinki and the other capitals of European countries targetted?

 

Egypt has been in some kind of internal turmoil since the 50's; the secular govt has tried to repress any form of Islamic parties. Same case with Saudi Arabia, the monarchy is seen as a puppet of the USA and that is why they have been a target.

 

As abhorrent as terrorist attacks are, they are always connected to the events hapenning elsewhere in the 'Islamic world'.

[Laba-X]

Most people usually use far too much verbiage to obscure their own thoughts and opinions. Generally, an entire post can be boiled down and re-written, including each and every essential point, in a third or even half the original length.

[Castro]

Originally posted by 7 of Nine:

This article sums it up great.

But not without some inconsistency. Have another look:

 

Efforts to link the bombs in London to Britain ’s involvement in Iraq are worthless and a badly timed justification.

 

contradicts

 

Certainly, the Iraq war provided the impetus and helped with funding and propaganda

 

Only the most racist of all Brits would actually say something like:

 

Terrorists and their sympathizers decided to abuse the government’s lax attitude and its open door policy for extremists

 

That smacks of anti-immigration rhetoric and it couldn't possibly be the root cause of terror. Wouldn't you agree?

 

A for effort. D for making sense.

 

Sorry 7, I'm saturated with this whole terrorism thing and I'm being naughty, mean and obnoxious.

[Kashafa]

Efforts to link the bombs in London to Britain ’s involvement in Iraq are worthless and a badly timed justification.

None other than Mayor Ken Livingstone has that view. Take it up with him.

 

Claiming the London explosions are a consequence of the British government’s participation in the war in Iraq lacks is devoid of any historical knowledge. After all, the ideology of al Qaeda and its affiliates is denouncing people as infidels and killing innocent civilians.

Not true. Even as abhorent their methods are, they have specific and tangible goals. Get "infidels" off Muslim lands,namely Iraq and Afghanistan. End Israeli occupation of Palestine(although this one seems more like a rallying battle-cry). Overthrow supressive and apostate(in their view) Arab dictatorshops (Think Saudi/Egypt)

 

If this prove anything, it is that Britain is one of the most generous host countries in Europe, to the extent that is has allowed its territories to be filled with deadly scorpions who are waiting for the appropriate time to leave their nests and sting their hosts. The latest attacks in London are a direct result of the government’s recklessness and its lenient attitude toward extremists it has refrained from deporting in the last fifty years.

Let me re-phrase that last sentence: The latest attacks in London are a direct result of the goverment's imperialism and it's having created literal deathtraps in the Muslim World forthe past 90 odd years. Think Kashmir. Think Balfour Declaration. Think a group of old white males sitting in Whitehall chaging the fates of entire nations with a few strokes of a pen. And thus, creating bloodshed and conflict and untold suffering of millions.

 

Let me remind the reader of the reactions in some sections of the media to terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia . Many alleged the bombings were a reaction to the presence of US military forces in the region, after the first Gulf War. Yet, an analysis of events in the last few years clearly demonstrates that the number of attacks rose after US forces withdrew from the Kingdom, thereby contradicting these claims. Terrorists never attacks US forces stationed in nearby Qatar , who sent its soldiers to fight in Iraq .

The terrorist object to the presence of US forces in the Holy Lands. Troops are still there albeit, reduced in size. They are also at 'war' with the Saudi goverment. Ask them why they don't attack Qatar.

 

However, the truth of the matter is, terrorism began in Afghanistan and was exported to Iraq, the Persian Gulf region, and Egypt, even affecting countries that have not taken part in the war, such as Yemen, Indonesia, and the Netherlands.

Does the author of the piece belive that the Afghan/Soviet war in the late '80s was a training camp for terrorist radicals ? If so, why was the entirety of the "free world" and Arab goverments actively encouraging youngsters to go fight a Jihad against the Godless Communists ? Double standards gets quite disgusting at times.

 

Justifying the London attacks and arguing events in Iraq are to blame only serves to perpetuate lies. In reality, terrorism is an ideological disease we need to get rid of. The most recent bombings in the resort town herald a new round in the war on terror that require a comprehensive understanding of the causes of the attack. London and Sharm al Sheikh are the latest pieces in the big puzzle that is terrorism, currently spreading its wings around the world. They are not internal problems but part of a wider global conflict that must be confronted socially and collectively

Terrorism is not a ideological disease. Extremism is. Terrorism is a set of actions. Extremism is a mind-set, a thinking pattern. And that's what we have to combat. The best way to combat terrorism is to identify and solve the greviences(percieved or not) of the terrorists.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by 7 of Nine:

This article sums it up great.

This was a badly written article, not from a grammar point of view, but from analytical point of view.

Originally posted by Raganimo:

Most people usually use far too much verbiage to obscure their own thoughts and opinions. Generally, an entire post can be boiled down and re-written, including each and every essential point, in a third or even half the original length.

Some people try to compensate their lack of quality or clear thoughts and opinions with quantitative paragraphs.

[-Serenity-]

Brothers,

 

I do not have the luxury of time to reply to every person. Granted, the article isn’t profound enough and just touches subjects on the surface… it nonetheless holds true.

 

I do not desire to regurgitate Ngonge’s one week lecture… however, one thing is clear to me. Terrorism isn’t from Islam. It isn’t for Muslims. Looks like the ‘holy cowards’ are fighting everyone.

 

There is no justification for bombing civilians in Iraq, Egypt, Afghanistan, London,New York, etc. Viking, there is no saying that it wont happen in any of the other cities you mentioned.

[Castro]

My heart bleeds for all those who died for oil, diamonds or hegemony but killing even more innocent people is not the answer. Ngonge cloyingly presented a simple maxim and I accept it. I'm done talking about this shit.