History of Somalia: SOL new section....

[Castro]

Originally posted by Rahima:

Obviously it wasn’t clear, but it was meant to be a tease, no harm or hostility intended. If it came out as such then I’m sorry

.

That's cool, Rahima. Apology conditionally accepted. This reminds me of something I encourage my family and friends not to engage in. I learned it a few years back. Check it out.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

Either your Somalinimo is under question again or you cant read Somali!

This reminds me of a christian evangelist I argued with some years ago. His favorite line to convince me Jesus was "god" would go something like this: "either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic or he is lord". That's a fallacy. It's a fallacy because Jesus could have been something other than the three options forced upon me by this evangelist.

 

So, now that you've voluntarily walked into this trap, how do you plan to rephrase your statement above into something I can reasonably respond to.

[General Duke]

Some good points. If the site is being updated thats wonderful indeed.

 

The SOL history section I had in mind would not be like any section on here. For example if one wanted to debate an issue they saw in the history section they could do it in the General, Politics or other exisiting forums.

 

The clan names should be kept in articles, why run away from it. If the articles are academic for example they will have clan names and diagrams and even tribal or ethnic names like, Somali, Saho, Afar, Denakil, Oromo, Tigray and Ahmaric.. No need to delete such identifications.

 

SOL history section should have profiles, such as profile of Sayid Mohamed, Imam Ahme Ibrahim, Ajuran dynasty, Banadir Sultans and so on other famous persnalities.. It should have maps, events and so on.

 

For example people here stated there is no documented Somali history... this came up in simple google serach..

 

Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi

Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (c.1507 - February 21, 1543) was a Somali Imam and General who defeated several Ethiopian emperors and wreaked much damage on that nation. He is also known as Ahmad Gragn (or Gurey), "Ahmed the left-handed".

 

He was born near Zeila, a port city located in northwestern Somalia, and married Bati del Wambara, the daughter of governor Mahfuz of Zeila. When Mahfuz was killed returning from a campaign against the Ethiopian emperor Lebna Dengel in 1517, the Adal sultanate lapsed into anarchy for several years, until Imam Ahmad killed the last of the contenders for power and took control of Harar.

 

In retaliation for an attack on Adal in 1527-8 by the Ethiopian general Degalhan, Imam Ahmad invaded Ethiopia in 1529. Although his troops were fearful of their opponents, and attempted to desert upon news that the Ethiopian army was approaching, Imam Ahmad relied on his elite company armed with matchlocks, and defeated emperor Lebne Dengel at Shimbra Kure that March.1

 

Imam Ahmad campaigned again in Ethiopia in 1531, breaking Emperor Lebna Dengel's ability to resist in the Battle of Amba Sel on October 28, then marched north to loot the island monastery of Lake Hayq and the stone churches of Lalibela. When the Imam entered the province of Tigray, he defeated an Ethiopian army that confronted him there, and on reaching Axum destroyed the Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion, in which the Ethiopian emperors had been coronated for centuries.

 

The Ethiopians were forced to ask for help from the Portuguese, who landed at the port of Massawa on February 10, 1541 in the reign of the emperor Gelawdewos. This force was led by Christovão da Gama, and included 400 musketeers and a number of artisans and other non-combatants. Da Gama and Imam Ahmad met on April 1, 1542 at Jarte, which Trimingham has identified with Anasa, between Amba Alagi and Lake Ashenge.2 Here te Portuguese had their first glimpse of Ahmad, as recorded by Castanhoso:

 

While his camp was being pitched, the king of Zeila [imam Ahmad] acended a hill with several horse and some foot to examine us: he halted on the top with three hundred horse and three large banners, two white with red moons, and one red with a white moon, which always accompanied him, and which he was recognized.3

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Ibrihim_al-Ghazi

[Castro]

Originally posted by General Duke:

The clan names should be kept in articles, why run away from it. If the articles are academic for example they will have clan names and diagrams and even tribal or ethnic names like, Somali, Saho, Afar, Denakil, Oromo, Tigray and Ahmaric.. No need to delete such identifications.

Where are these articles coming from? Are they legitimate sources of information? I'm not being facetious, I really do want to know.

 

As for clan names, it's a no no. The very names cause some of us to foam at the mouth. When this entire generation has died off, say in 2070, we can use the names then for they will have become historical names and references. But until then, anyone who misspells my clan's name risks severe injury and/or death.

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

For this section to work as a source of useful information for the SOL visitor, it must adhere to certain guidelines.

 

- Its content must have legitimate, recognized sources

- It must have the "reply" button disabled

- On historical events, the emphasis must be on region/personalities rather than clan.

- Information must be organized in a chronological manner.

 

 

Anything less is just another politics forum.

 

My thoughts!!

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Castro:

quote:Originally posted by Kashanre:

Either your Somalinimo is under question again or you cant read Somali!

This reminds me of a christian evangelist I argued with some years ago. His favorite line to convince me Jesus was "god" would go something like this: "either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic or he is lord". That's a fallacy. It's a fallacy because Jesus could have been something

other

than the three options forced upon me by this evangelist.

 

So, now that you've voluntarily walked into this trap, how do you plan to rephrase your statement above into something I can reasonably respond to.

Why must I rephrase? Respond as creatively as you can. Creativity is a much sought after tool, and as you seem to be very adept at using that tool, why not employ it?

 

BTW the statement did not call for a response, hence the exclaimation mark. If however you deemed it in need of one, by all means go ahead.

[Rahima]

- Its content must have legitimate, recognized sources

What is the criterion for deciding what is a legitimate and recognized source and more precisely who decides what this criterion is?

 

On historical events, the emphasis must be on region/personalities rather than clan.

We all know that region/personality is basically a replacement for tribe names. Example: the politics forum. Often regions and personalities are used in place of tribe names which are banned. You will see many of us nomads using the tribe of such and such region, or the tribe of hebel hebel. Nothing really wrong with it if is innocent, but often is it used negatively.

 

I still don’t see how this can work without it creating problems and major disagreements. History is of course dependent on who authors it, but most countries of the world have a general consensus on the major parts of their history, we from Somalia don’t even have that (we cannot even agree on our supposed heroes, be it Sayiidka or Ahmad Gurey). Also since we are such a qabiil-orientated people, I can’t see how qabiil names can be avoided. It will most definitely come up one way or another. That said perhaps it is doable, but there sure are many hurdles to overcome and it can never be reliable so throw that out the window.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

BTW the statement did not call for a response, hence the exclaimation mark. If however you deemed it in need of one, by all means go ahead.

Here it goes. My Somalinimo is in question bacause:

• Somalinimo is great and Castro shows little to be worthy of it.
• Somalinimo is terrible and Castro seems to have risen above it.

Dude, you're the one who dragged this cat out of the bag. Notice I locked you in with your own fallacy here. Kadabaalo saaxib.

[NGONGE]

I’m sure that by now, this habit of mine is becoming very tedious. I try to stay away, I honestly do. But then I feel that I’d let you all down if I didn’t come in and draw your attention to such and such area.

 

Everyone seems to be suggesting new sections to be added to this site. As I’ve already said on another forum, we’re all trying to rearrange the furniture here. There is a group advocating for a Men’s only section, another group insisting the women’s section is important and now Duke is asking for a History section. I demand a music section. I also recently found out that Femme is only 17 years of age and insist that she has a kids section all to herself. Johnny B wants a computer section and the Arabic speakers here (our numbers are rising) would not mind an Arabic speaking section.

 

Still, seriously now, why the need for all these bits and ideas? Are we gushing with articles, ideas and thoughts that our current sections can’t hold?

 

Never mind that. Is this new History section going to offer something different to what can be found in other parts of the net? Could I not find it with a quick Google?

 

You see, what keeps me here (though the need recedes day-by-day) is the quality of some of the Nomads. I know if I wait long enough I’m going to read a juicy article, come across an interesting debate or be inspired to start one of my own. Steady now; don’t start thinking I’ve gone soft in the head or anything. I still believe the Nomads have many faults and are in general very lazy with their thoughts, but I also believe that this website (and those that visit it) are the best of a very bad bunch (easy now, that was a compliment).

 

The Internet is full of Somali discussion forums. All offer different kinds of discussions but the reason that brings us here is that we liked something about the discussions on this site. If the site is going to add new sections, they have to have the same uniqueness. They have to be different to similar sections on other websites. They have to offer something new.

 

I personally don’t believe a history page will offer something new. First of all, Somalis in general are masters (even the dumb ones) at misrepresenting the facts. We rewrite history every single day and we’re not likely to stop now. It will only be more detailed, eloquent and readable. But, history will still be rewritten!

 

Still, and you have my permission to feign surprise here, I think all these are very good ideas. If nothing else, they’ll get you all thinking and the initial excitement and drive to make it work might stick. Do it, do it, bring life back to this ghost ship.

[Johnny B]

Ngonge, well packaged Arabman,

the Somali history is the Somali politcs.

[General Duke]

Its content must have legitimate, recognized sources

- It must have the "reply" button disabled

- On historical events, the emphasis must be on region/personalities rather than clan.

- Information must be organized in a chronological manner.

I agree with SLK. 100%. Castro made a good point, yet the clan is important part of the Somali identity. Insulting clans is wrong learning about our common heritage is not. There are many articles, research material, maps and even pictures about Somalia. Why shoudl this not be made readily available to us.

 

The politics section is fluid individualistic and at times confusing the history, section should be big static and based on consensus.

 

How should we get this consensus be achieved? I suggest there be a commitee to authorise what articles, materials should be used, which are relevent and so on..

 

For example, [this streching it]lets have the Duke,Suldanka, Rahima, MMA, Rudy, Willow etc on the board. They dont have much in common wether clan, or regional location.. Once this group agree on a timeline, theme, article topic then it gets placed on the main website.

 

Pictures, maps, flags and so on should be excempt from this slow painstaking process.. Also you must love History and that boring stuff. If there is disagrement on a profile have the pro and cons both sides of the argument.

 

We have a history, and I belive that we will agree 99% of the time. If in doubt we can leave the past recent 100 years for last and start from the CUSHITE, SEMITE stuff, who are the Oromo, Amhara, and what are their relationship with us?

Somali history is not unique and every nation has had their clans, their wars their struggles.

 

-role of other Other SOL members and guests can be to help guide the COMMITEE group, to interesting articles and areas that they have overlooked. What do you guys think???

[Castro]

Here's a monkey wrench for you Duke: my clan is not represented or is under-represented in that committee of yours. How could they possibly know about my clan when I'm the son of hebel and heblaayo, the duke and dutchess of clannia? I should be on that committe. Better yet, I should chair that committee.

[General Duke]

^^^ I gave an example, now think it through it might be bulshit. If it is then correct it. I am serious I love history and it would be a nice hobby for me, after all I am a master at copy and paste.

 

As for the commitee you must love history and working in a group..If so chair it..

[Castro]

^ Ok. I'm serious this time. A committee is a great idea. Could I be an independent auditor of this committee? I'm not much for clan allegiancy. I will be impartial, I promise. I hate them all equally.

[General Duke]

Thats a good idea. So what type structure and composition should this commitee be?

Give me an outline of what you think..