I am sorry ladies but you really do not have any MALE friends

[Cara.]

^Maybe you should befriend a female friend who is good at logic because I couldn't follow yours

 

Interestingly, all the female friends I have are either very pretty or good at essays or both. I wonder what it means?

[Paragon]

^Oh, you wouldn't be able to follow my logic, would you? Sure enough you wouldn't be able to follow logic where there is none, could you? What comes beyond the thresh-hold of universal logic?

 

Interestingly, for you, a female friend with such beauty or skill wouldn't mean much to you, unless that is, you swing some 'other' way. For me, however, the services (not to be mistaken for anything else) of female acqaintances meant alot. Besides, your fingers are finely carved and nimble, may I pressume? (Presumption sucks, I know, but it sure simplifies things)

 

So, Cara (or is it 'Caraweelo'), do think you have 'genuine' friends of the opposite gender?

[Cara.]

Wow, you're a touchy one Paragon. Before you make ever more childish insinuations, my point about praising my friends' looks and abilities was to highlight that we think well of our friends. We like to think they are good-looking, talented or possess at least some positive quality that makes them worthy of our friendship. It was meant as a gentle reminder that your perceptions of your fake female friends might have stemmed at least in part from real affection for them. But never mind, they were only useful acquaintances

 

I do have genuine male friends. Yes, yes, you may make smug claims that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt they are not "TRUE" friends, but that's where you would be spectacularly wrong. You see, I'm neither pretty nor generous with my "services", so I know I have managed to avoid the leeches who think true friendship requires matching genitalia.

[Che -Guevara]

^Undue insinuation on his part, but you do know how whip boys I don't know what qualifies true friendship or what it entails, but I do have couple close friends who just happen to be women.

[Paragon]

^Che, whip aa? Lol.

 

Cara

 

Since I'm sleepless, let me run with you for a bit, and reply to you in a jest.

 

Wow, you're a touchy one Paragon. Before you make ever more childish insinuations, my point about praising my friends' looks and abilities was to highlight that we think well of our friends. We like to think they are good-looking, talented or possess at least some positive quality that makes them worthy of our friendship. It was meant as a gentle reminder that your perceptions of your fake female friends might have stemmed at least in part from real affection for them. But never mind, they were only useful acquaintances

Now, now, my dear, don't allege 'childish insinuations on the part of an elderly fellow. I do not say that your reference to 'insinuation' is wholly impertinent on your part, all I must say to dissuade you from making such a reference again, is that perhaps, it might have its root in a misunderstanding based on 'gendered meaning'.

 

Let me clarify: praising or appreciating the beauty of your friends (of the opposite sex), their talents and positive qualities/attributes, could be something you hold as genuinely real, and that you have mentioned such things to 'highlight' the goodness of their characters, in worthiness of friendship, however, your statement of this simply applies only to your very own reality (or that of other females), which you consider to be 'true' and never a 'fake perception' on frienship. Perhaps, the fairer gender perceives there to be the case for solid inter-gender friendship, but as far I can deduce (that is using 'male logic'), you may hope as you may, but such inter-gender friendship falls victim to a male psychological streak of utilized-friendship. It is not due to utter pretention on the part of the male, that inter-gender friendships possess two differing 'gendered meaning', but perhaps considering the biological difference and function of genders, psychology explains why one sex insists on one conclusion on inter-gender friendship as true, while the other argues the opposite?

 

I think these conclusions could easily be explained by acknowledging the basic nature of men as opposed to that of women: According to those who study this basic nature, males are in nature 'exclusivists', while females beings 'inclusivists'. Males exclude others to lay claim to others, especially things the man may perceive as different to him, such as rivals and women, to either to fulfull an innert need to overcome some rival, or to call something desireable as exclussively his 'own', and at times that desireable something could come in the form of a beautiful female who he must 'own' as a person, or secure her 'services'. For females, every man is friend/lover, every man a father, every man a brother, son, etc. Hence the perceptions of 'true' friendship. That fact has been widely recognized . But that distinction is clearly visible in most of the males' psychology.

 

 

So perhaps you assumed that you and I must subscribe to the same universal perception on inter-gender friendship, and needlessly faulted me for holding a naturally male view, while presumptuosly hypothesizing that I might have had 'real affections' for them (female friends of mine). Might I declare to you that my affections are mostly reserved for those I romantically desire. My frendliness to my acqaintances, however, is just that: utilized friendliness for an identified purpose, the closest one approaching near affection being an appreciating them for some pleasing company in the passing of time. I court those in which I have an interest, Simple logic.

 

I do have genuine male friends. Yes, yes, you may make smug claims that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt they are not "TRUE" friends, but that's where you would be spectacularly wrong. You see, I'm neither pretty nor generous with my "services", so I know I have managed to avoid the leeches who think true friendship requires matching genitalia

Ofcourse to you as a female they are 'TRUE' friends. I could never commit the fallacy of claiming otherwise. But I am not wrong in enlightening you on the fact that such 'TRUE friendship' is hardly reciprocated in males. It is just so, and any male who loves women for whatever they are loved for will directly or indirectly tell you so.

 

Mind you, I think it is somewhat unfair to describe yourself as you did above. The question is, do your male friends consider you as not being 'pretty'? Why don't you ask your male friends? I would tell you how beautiful you are were you to hire me as judge, without bringing up 'matching genitalia'.

 

PS: Also, being generous with services comes in many forms, some subtle some obvious.

[Che -Guevara]

^LooooooooooooooL...figuratively speaking that's, but you do make good point. Do her male friends view the relationship in the same context as she does, or would they be even honest about it such question is raised to them?

 

N not to whip out the cultural/gendered view of male/female friendship, but I do believe there is a "passing moment" in the making of male/female friendship where man mulls over certain questions, of course the sort questions depends on the individual-atleast this been my experience.

 

One of my friends says her husband is her best friend, I know it's cliche , but there is such sincerity on face when she talks about their friendship..it made me wonder what friendship means to her?

 

And not to go back to the matching genitalia, but I used to work with this guy who's from Appalachia, and he would always say, can a male/female friendship survive a night of thermal spooning trapped in cold mine on the hills of Appalachia. Of course, the likelihood of me and friend sealed in coal mine in such dire situation somewhere in Kentucky or West Virginia is highly improbable.

[The_Siren]

^- Oh my, I'm afraid you lost me at thermal spooning within the freezing cold Appalachian mountains. Shivers and sighs wistfully oh but to dream, (Allows her imagination to run wild)

 

Still man and woman and can both form a mutually platonic friendship so long as the woman holds the salivating "best" friend at bay with an MC Hammer "Can't touch this" hand. Boundaries people, we all need boundaries and a lady shouldn't even contemplate thinking that her male friend will help maintain and protect that barrier because more often than not if your remotely attractive and breathing and he can get away with coping a feel while your guard is down? Then he will. Hell I would if I were so unfortunate enough to be born male and as a result illogical. (Flutters lashes)

 

God I feel so provocative and annoying today...

[Che -Guevara]

^LoooooooooooL@"remotely attractive and breathing". Was that inadvertent self-flattering or intentional self-assessment. With bakoorad in your hand (interesting way to calibrate beauty) , I presume you are attractive one then

 

The-Siren says Allows her imagination to run wild...I never quite grasped what the man was trying to say, but that's the whole point ain't it?..Only a guy would find something to 'dream' about in direst of situations..that's not to say we are illogical

[Paragon]

^Lol@Che and The_Siren

 

Did you say traped, unavoidably without any help around? Ok, i'll think about that.

 

Anyway, Che, waa sidaad sheegtay iyo sidaan sheegey. But if they want to be friends, hell yeah, by all means let's.

[Cara.]

Tell me Che, which one of your male friends would you feel comfortable spooning with on a cold night? Would you rather be the spoonee or the spooner? And when you came back to civilization, would you still have a special bond?

 

Paragon, I think I see where you are coming from now. What you are saying is that you would not presume to know how I feel, but at the same time you can easily pigeon-hole MY friends into simple "inclusive" vs "exclusive" categories, based on knowing nothing more than their gender. What an amazing talent

 

I would love to see the empirical evidence that "has been widely recognized" to define 6 billion people into two non-overlapping mutually exclusive camps, regardless of their personalities, motives, or experiences. Obviously I'm at a glaring deficit in this discussion because I've never come across a scientific study that managed to be as unequivocal as you seem to be arguing (it's an oddly female logic I know). On top of that, my personal experiences have misled me on numerous occasions into seeing people acting at odds with their easily-definable but often illogical gender roles. So please, before I neglect the children at the daycare I work in, and you forget to practice your drills at the army base you live in, let's share these "widely recognized" studies that make you such an infallible judge on a person's motivations, based on knowing nothing more than their biological sex.

[The_Siren]

Che- LOL You'd be presuming wrong then, unless society deems hairy backed apes with bottoms large enough to be used as homing beacons as beautiful I shall have to settle for my luck in life. Still I count myself fortunate in that what I lack in physical perfection I can more than make up for in cunning. And if that fails I could always invest in a lifetime supply of rohypnol.

 

Paragon, you have to admit though, not every individual thinks as you or adheres to your just another "me so horny" I can't help my biology statistic. You can't leave out the chance that there are some men out there who truly have no sinister designs upon their lady friends save crying over their plump bosoms after watching an episode of star trek where captain Kirk dies. You can't leave out chance my boy.

[Ibtisam]

^^LOOL I like you, HAHAH. Wlc and hope you won't get dull like thet rest of the old farts!!

 

Care dear, you are banging your head against a brick wall.

 

What Paragon and to a lesser extent Che are saying is that THEY cannot be friends with a female, unless she is beautiful and they can ogle at her or she is smart and dumb (i.e. Willing to write his essays)

 

Often people try to make their own absurd views a reality by trying to make them seem as the norm for all others.

 

I think rather it is acceptable to say that guys with certain trends of thoughts and priorities in life, find it hard to be friends with members of the opposite sex, who seem so perfect for those dominating thoughts. Their logic being, if they are so good, I want them for myself. They feel a bit like women who say all great catches are gay or taken.

 

I think as females we always can see early on when a farah sees you as a potential (even in another life) or those who are genuine. But either we decided it is not our problem to deal with and ignore it, or we pull the pluck all together and let them find their next victim. I have recently decided to cut off the hands of all doggy farah's. They are just creepy to say the least. :rolleyes:

[The_Siren]

^- LOL Ibti- why did you cut off their hands? Don't tell me they dared to steal a grope of your highly valued (and rightly so) merchandise? (wiggles her brows suggestively)

 

Some ladies have all the luck...*sighs* LOL

 

Ps Thank you for the heart warming welcome, I am very much honored. Oh and you know what I think? I think this is just another excuse for Cara to lure old paragon into a false sense of security so that she may prove his theory that men and women can't be friends correct- by pouncing on him the second his back is turned. A very clever woman indeed...

 

Cara I see your intent woman, and I'm proud of you, you go and fly the flag of us perverted women out there! LOL

[Paragon]

^Lol@'me so horny'. Dear, Siren, I am not so horny, nor am I so chauvinistic at most times. I am not just making random statements without a serious thought here. This topic happens to be a tiny part of 'total-field, relational image' puzzle that has been keeping me occupied. It's merely a small part in my taboo quest to understand the ontology of matter, the single-ness of our Supreme soul (of nothingness) in one-ness in godly presence. And as such, my interest in biological designs delves into the basic components of the body-sense structures, into which a genderless (not a man or a woman), shapeless, formless 'eternal energy' has been breathed to function (and at times malfunction - the exception you are looking for) strictly in a certain way. What isn't a malfuntion in the body-sense is, I believe caused an a sort of an omnipresent social consciousness/environment that conditioned one to take on an attitudional over-lay of 'reality'. Now, I have made an observational discovery not long ago that sometimes, if one successfully reverts the person from consciousness, and slip them back the unconscious, in that period, regardless of how sophisticated the person thinks s/he is in 'real' life, everything they do or say is primordial in nature. All pretentions simply wears off and the bones of true being fills the void. And friendship of the kind we're discussing now is but pretention. In that state, I believe there are not exceptions, but I wouldn't rule them out all together.

 

 

Cara, first free yourself from the poverty and fallacy of positivist empiricism. Then know.

[Ibtisam]

The Siren:

Lurkers are never good, maar baa diinaca beye kaka imiian. I use to just leave them hanging around, it got annoying and suffocating- I mean you can lurk around for a month, but if it reaches into years you need to get them leeches off…FAST

 

LOOL @ Cara being perverted!!! Hehe She is that one, I tell ya.