Re: Losing Her Faith - DOUBT!

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Sayid*Somal:

quote:Originally posted by NGONGE:

P.S.

Though I long learned seriousness is wasted on most people here, I may get serious enough to write an enitre thread about

doubt.

i agree with you that seriousness is wasted on most people here - however, as i consider you to be one whom seriousness is not wasted on - may i pre-empt your intended thread about "doubt" with the following words of wisdom:

 

"This is the Book

; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah."

Al-Baqara (2:2)

 

"We have, without doubt, sent down the message; and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption)"

Al-Hijr (15:9)

 

"These are the verses of the book of wisdom"

Yunus (10:1)

That is but one kind of doubt, saaxib. In that thread we had many others displayed. Doubting the intentions of other people, doubting the existence of a god and doubting yourself. Each and every one of these is worth a topic of its own.

 

In doubting the intentions of others, our heroes here are none other than virtuous A&T and pious Tuujiye (with a sprinkle of occasional wisdom from good Karl). There is no shred of evidence that the man they accuse is indeed a zandiiq, yet, they insist on assuring us that he is. But they are still not too sure and would keep going back and asking him to come clean! So is he or is he not?

 

Let me tell you the story of the famous poet Bashar Ben Burd. He was a renowned Arab poet (with Persian roots) who lived in the period between the Umayyad and Abbasid Khilafahs. He was blind and was one of the very top poets of insults (hijaa). He was also fond of his drink, parties (well, as much as one could call such ancient sessions, parties) and poems of love and debauchery. In addition, the man used to keep questionable company even in the field of religious study (for example, he was good friends with many of Ahlu El Kalam and Moctazila). Such associations and debauchery made people accuse him of being an atheist, a zandiiq and an altogether bad man.

 

It is said that he once wrote a poem insulting the Khalifa Al Mahdi (as a result of not being given any money or gifts). The Khalifa, upon hearing of the poem, got angry and decided to visit Bashar’s town to ‘sort him out’ once and for all. On the way there, the Khalifa and his entourage heard someone doing the athaan (calling for prayer). It was not time for prayer, so the Khalifa sent someone to find out where this noise was coming from. Within minutes, they brought him Bashar, drunk as a seaman, stumbling and still singing the call to prayer! The Khalifa was livid and ordered his followers to flog Bashar for being an atheist and a zandiiq. They did so until they killed him.

 

Later, the Khalifa sent someone to search out Bashar’s house. They found a piece of paper on which he wrote “Bismi Allahi Al Raxman Al Raxeem, I wanted to write a poem of insult about Bani so and so for being misers, but then I remembered that they were related to the prophet and stopped”.

So, you see, though the man was clearly a sinner he was neither a Mulxid nor a zandiiq. Sheikh A&T might even identify with him. Wa ninka yedhi:

 

يا قوم اذني لبعض الحي عاشقة

والاذن تعشق قبل العين احيانا

 

 

O people, my ear is in love with some of the living

And the ear, sometimes, falls in love before the eye

 

 

On doubting the existence of a god you already provided the cure but neither did you mention the symptoms nor the reasons for the ailment itself.

 

In the thread in dispute, there was a story of a girl that questioned her own Islam. Curiously enough, she claimed to believe in god (but never clarified which god she believed in). Still, even that section of the thread had its own hero in the guise of the big kahuna himself (Johnny B). However, Johnny does not believe in god altogether (or so he says).

 

So what is it about the existence of god that people doubt? Is it that there is no god at all (ala Johnny) or just that someone is having a bad day and lots of problems that make him/her question god? On the first, there is not much that one could say or do. Believe or don’t believe; it is your choice. However, on the second where one is going through a bout of doubting and questioning, perhaps all is not lost (yet).

 

The aayahs you posted give an idea of what one could do to relieve the doubting. However, they also give proof (as if proof was needed) that doubt is natural, expected and fair. Why does one read the Koran and attempt to learn from it? What is the one, overwhelming, clear, most important truth that one learns from reading the Koran? And, once one learns it, what is the point of going over it again and again? Shouldn’t the Koran be like any other book that you read once, enjoy the story (and the moral of it) then ditch it for some other book (and maybe go back to it once in a while to savor the beautiful way the story is told)? Why do you have to read it over and over and over again? Why go over verses that remind you there is no god but Allah? Surely you already worked that one out from first reading! Could it be just that? A reminder for when doubt creeps in (owing to a million and one reasons connected to everyday life). Aye, there is the rub (as Hamlet would say).

 

Does doubt equal outright apostasy or is it the temporary succumbing to uncertainty? Surely, the doubt itself implies the absence of total rejection. Yacni, there is hope still. But what brings on doubt?

 

It has always been a habit of mine never to quote verses from the Koran or any ahaadith online. But I am sure many of the verse-wallahs in here can easily furnish us with countless verses that talk about the sweet whisperings of Satan, the nafs that eggs one into committing sins and the easy ways which make one stray. The opposite of doubt is certainty and certainty only comes with TRUTH. But how could you tell it is so if you don’t have any doubt? Surely you need one to get to the other.

 

The final kind of doubt is when you doubt yourself (something neither A&T nor his great army of keyboard shakers seem to suffer). It is the one where you ask yourself if the path you have chosen is the correct one or if Al Shabab were right all along. Is it best to stay in the comfort and safety of the crowd or should one break out and believe in their own judgment (within the agreed parameters of course)? Am I being a hypocrite when I scold Al Shabab for employing their Takfeeri methods against those I consider Muslims, whilst I am happy to label someone a Kaafir just because a feeling, an instinct or experience with previous nitwits who spoke similarly, told me this one also is?

Or maybe the resolute Al Shabab way of the ends justifying the means is the right way! Do I apply the Islamic morals of fairness, justice and equality at all times or is it ok to ditch them in times of war (for expedience sake)?

 

Surely, as a Muslim, one should never doubt his creator and the message (if they can help it, and we dealt with that above already). Everything else must be open to a great deal of doubt. I mean, clearly, as things stand, there are different conflicting interpretations of the faith. There are the Sunnis, the Shica and the many others within those. We find ourselves agreeing with one group’s interpretation one day and disagreeing the next.

 

I see Al Shabab’s way of doing things and I find myself impressed with the dedication, brotherhood and image they present. Isn’t this the image I was brought up with as to the face of true Islam? They even have an Amir! They apply the Sharica, fight the oppressors and claim that their one and only aim is to ensure that Allah’s word remains supreme. What is there to doubt about them or myself?

 

On the other hand, despite their overall pious image, despite paying lip service to the rules of Sharica, despite their calls for Jihad, the DEVIL still remains in the detail. I doubt the legitimacy of Al Shabab because of the detail. I doubt their wisdom, the permissibility of their conduct and, sometimes, I feel guilty when I doubt their goals. After all, their claim is all about freeing Muslim lands (Somalia) from the tyranny of outsiders, meddlers and turncoats. But is it really freedom when you replace that with the heavy handed and crazy rule of Al Shabab? How could I support, agree with and believe in a group that finds Islamic excuses for the murder of innocents? How could I not doubt anyone that refuses to listen to reason, discuss it or even benignly attempt to convince me they are on the right path? Al Shabab, it seems, suffer from no pangs of self doubt. But I do. Do you?

 

This one is for A&T (since he got an A in philosophy). It is an invitation to apply Pascal’s Wager to the true identity/nature of Rhazes. If he is as you say, you lose nothing but your doubt (replaced with yaqiin now). However, if he turns out to be far from who you think he is, you stand to lose a lot (going by the revelation that some doubt is a sin). Where do you stand on that my dust-cloud raising friend? Any self doubt? Any guilt? Any hints you may just be wrong?

 

Now I will be the first to admit that what I wrote above could have been done much better and included many examples. But, I have a confession to make.......I doubted it was worth the effort. Wax fahma!

[BUKURR]

.. without doubt, we wouldn't be here -the go*damned earth, so why try explain it to frx's who lost some aspects of their formation process.

[SayidSomal]

Now I will be the first to admit that what I wrote above could have been done much better and included many examples. But, I have a confession to make.......I doubted it was worth the effort. Wax fahma!

Waan fahmay -

 

i'll come about to the rest of your rant - in the meantime please edit 'god' to God at least. i have go and collect my daughter from school.

[NGONGE]

^^ Naga daa dee.

 

[qoute]God's name is treated with unusual care in Jewish tradition. The divine name, YHWH (spelled with the Hebrew letters yud, hey, vav, hey) is never pronounced. Traditionally, Jews read the word "Adonai" (often translated as "the Lord") whenever reading God's holiest name in Torah or in prayer. However, "Adonai" is not God's name.

 

Among some traditional Jews, speaking even the word "Adonai" is avoided outside of worship or study. This "stand-in" for God's name is itself replaced by "Ha-Shem" ("The Name"). The practice also has been extended to other Hebrew words associated with God. For example, the Hebrew word "Elohim," which means "God" (the title, not God's name), is pronounced "Elokim" outside of prayer and study.

 

In recent years, some Jews have carried the practice even further by abstaining from writing the English word "God" and substituting the spelling, "G-d" or "Gd." However, there is no prohibition in Jewish law from writing "God" in any language other than Hebrew. In fact, there is an often repeated story about Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, z"l, one of the foremost authorities of Modern Orthodoxy, who intentionally would write and erase the word "God" (in English) on the blackboard in front of his students at Yeshiva University in order to emphasize the fact this is not prohibited by Jewish law.

 

Some Reform Jews observe the custom of spelling God as "G-d." Most do not. In any case, it would be inappropriate and opposed to Jewish values to correct or shame a person for keeping this practice if it is done out of respect and reverence for God.

 

L'Shalom,

Rabbi Jeffrey W. Goldwasser

[AYOUB]

It is an invitation to apply Pascal’s Wager to the true identity/nature of Rhazes.

Legjar Faranji niman baa akhriya laawis iyo beene

Oo waliba laaxima intay lib isku moodaane

Ase waxan u laaqimahayaa tix ay ku luuqshaane

Mar haduu Lilaahida ka baxo waa lisaan jabane

~ Salaan M Xirsi "Carrabey"

[NGONGE]

^^ Where does "Mar haduu lilaahida ka baxo waa lisaan jabane" fit into the bit your quoted?

[Abtigiis]

Ngonge, no self-doubt, no guilt on my part. Diinta ayey aakhiro iyo aduunba dantaydu ku jirtaa. Now, that is not an endorsement of Maaddeey's limp-chopping pals.

[NGONGE]

^^ No it's not but it's an evasive reply if I ever saw one. Maaddeey says exactly the same thing but one of you must be WRONG. Wax fahan.

[AYOUB]

Ngonge

Your buddy sounds like a Shia if you ask me. Maybe when he finishes his education and becomes a Professor ayuu lilaahida ka bixii doona ( wanacuudubillah)

 

His friend sounds like she wants to reinstate Afweyne's Xeerka Qoyska. We'll see about that.

 

That's may layman impression of things.

[NGONGE]

^^ My "buddy" sounds like:

 

http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/8/652

[AYOUB]

^

[Jacaylbaro]

i have go and collect my daughter from school.

Faan weynaa ,,

[Haatu]

^ Muxuu ugu faani lahaa Adaaba maanta war la timid

[nuune]

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro:

Faan weynaa ,,

usheeg inaad 7 daughters everyday school ka soo kaxeeso, ood waliba UNDP ka tahay vice-president .

 

 

PS: After carefull investigation, and the dissapearance of Mutakallim for many years, it appears NGONE is indeed Mutakallim

[NGONGE]

^^ Dee naga daa (the kids will believe this nonsense).

 

P.S.

What seven daughters? Jacaylbaro is surprised girls actually go to school and even get picked up by their fathers at the end. Waa runtiisa, faan weynaa.