Allah Ya Cizak!

[Gabbal]

Sayid

 

Listen, you and I might not particularly like the Shias but it is not in our position to say what they are. No human, who has reached the level of Ulama or not, is in the position or can be in the position to call any testifying person or group a "kaffir" and especially "non-believer" while they , those same accused, are professing the Shahada! That is a power of the creater above humans, whomever they might be.

 

Sayid, you, in a non-comprehensible way, keep alleging, along with comment from the eloquent Rahima, the Ulama said all the while forgetting it is not in the position of the Ulama to revoke anyone's Islamic(ness). Who are they to do so? How are they sure of their own fate? They do not, so they cannot be classified as a deciding factor on who is a Muslim or not so long as people are prefessing or (in Somali) diinta qiranahayaan. It has been prophosised that a great number of those deemed Ulama will be among the inhabitants of hell and that Islam, at the end, will have been divided into 74 schools of thought with 73 of those classified as wrong! Those members will not necessarily be called non-believers but it is certain they will recieve some sort of temporary punishment. As long as we know of that end, who can say which madhab is right or wrong? Who has the power or authority to weigh in on the situation when clearly we do not know if we, ourselves, the accusers, are following that lone right madhab or not!

 

Therein lies the problem, so, please, do not be purposely incomprehensive and simplistic. The problem is not easy as Sunna and Shia, all those of Sunna schools of thought will go to heaven while all those of Shia school of thought will go to hell. No. The situation is not that simple nor simplistic. Just stregthen your iman and save your individual being.

 

 

p.s. Layzie girl, what is your obsession with Kheyr? His is one of the few nomads I respect and greatly value their opinion and for you to speak that way of him and liken him to more shaddy characters here is, something I consider, sad.

[Sayyid]

Thanks for the advice, poor Kashanre! Nevertheless to hell with the Ithna Ashariyya of the rafidah and the rest of the Shiits.

[Gabbal]

^

 

People ignore the clown.

[Socod_badne]

^^Please do not insult your fellow nomads. It's against SOL rules for decency and civility.

 

Thank You

[Jacpher]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

Sayid, you, in a non-comprehensible way, keep alleging, along with comment from the eloquent Rahima, the Ulama said all the while forgetting it is not in the position of the Ulama to revoke anyone's Islamic(ness). Who are they to do so? How are they sure of their own fate? They do not, so they cannot be classified as a deciding factor on who is a Muslim or not so long as people are prefessing or (in Somali) diinta qiranahayaan. It has been prophosised that a great number of those deemed Ulama will be among the inhabitants of hell and that Islam, at the end, will have been divided into 74 schools of thought with 73 of those classified as wrong! Those member will not necessarily be called non-believers but it is certain they will some sort of temporary punishment. As long as we know of that end, who can say which madhab is right or wrong? Who has the power or authority to weigh in on the situation when clearly we do not know if we, ourselves, the accusers, are following that lone right madhab or not!

I’ll tell you who can make the judgment. The Sunnah, Qur’an and hadiths plus jamhural Uluma can reach a verdict on the state of your Islam(ness), based on your actions, not personality, not looks. It is the actions they speak of which nullifies your Islam. If one professes the shahada but keeps cursing the prophet’s scw wife & his sahaba, doesn’t that take them out of the fold of Islam?

[Gabbal]

Socod Badne

 

It is not a direct insult as much as an accurate description.

 

 

If one professes the shahada but keeps cursing the prophet’s scw wife & his sahaba, doesn’t that take them out of the fold of Islam?

Good Ducaqabe, I want to stress that I am not particularly sympathetic to the Shia nor will I put myself in the position to defend any of their actions. However, as a Muslim, I cannot and will not allow others to decide an individual/group's Islamic(ness) when that power alone rests with the creator.

 

Is suffism (Xer) bidca? Is Al-itihad bidca? Are salafis reformationists with a traditional outlook?

 

Those are all questions and debates raging within the Sunni school of thought and ultimately the creator will decide the answers to those questions. I brought those points into the topic to show you that even within the Sunni sect, classifications of herecy are being thrown around! We know there will be a division of 74 schools of thought and that 73 of those will be deemed invalid. That scares me more then Shia vs Sunni, and when there are more differences within the Sunni then they probably have with the Shia.

 

Only Allah (swt) knows and my position has been, from the beginning, that to each his own. Ninba kiisa haka adkaado rather then playing god and placing judgment.

 

 

p.s. I have met a lot of Shia but I have never met nor seen a Shia who badmouthed the rasuul (scws), his wife, or his companians. If you have, then it must have been an individual thing which cannot and should not be generalized.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

Socod Badne

 

It is not a direct insult as much as an accurate description.

I thought so too until esteemed Moderator (who'll remain anonymous) sent me bone-chilling PM... threatening me with horrific penalties if I don't promote a sense of prison yard camaraderie.

[Salafi_Online]

As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah

 

Akhee Sayid my sincere advice follows:

 

You are addressing people who do not know the conditions of the Shaahada, what is Kufar and iman, Bid'ah mukafiraah. Kufr-al ictiqad, Kufr bi camali.Etc... People who do not know the Nullifiers of Islam. People who do not know the categories of tawheeds and its nulliers. Imam Shafe'ee once said," When I debate with an ignorant person i always lose, but when i debate with someone who has knoweldge i always win"

 

 

Do u know why akhee, The ignorant person does not have any foundation, he follows his desires. So u end up wasting your time. Why do u think the Rasul forbade debating with the jahl.

 

LEt me tell u a story my friend once narrated to me.

 

There was a well known somali shaykh and one day this man devoid of knoweldge wanted to debate him. So they agreed and set up a day to debate in front of the public. The people gathered and they begin the debate as planned. The shaykh started to quote quran,hadith and scholars's fatwa and what not. The ignorant person just started to babble and use his own understand. After a while the ignorant person became abusive, and the shaykh lost his patience, so they started to argue and argue and argue till they physically fought . The general public who knew the shaykh but did not know the ignorant person said: "OH two scholars are Fighting"

 

I hope you get it..

 

Anyone who says the Iranian nation is a muslim nation, does not know what they are talking about. Just because one says the Shahaada doesnt mean your muslim. This biggest misconception muslims have about their own faith.

[Gabbal]

^What do you think about Wahhabism?

 

Also, out of the 74 final schools of thought, do you think your specific one is prophosed rightful one?

[Viking]

Salafi da'wa,

Also remind him that you believe Sayyid Qutb (the Egyptian) to be an innovator. Remember rule no. 13 from your manual? It forbade the challenging of rulers as long as they were [referring to themselves as] Muslims.

[xiinfaniin]

Salafi Da'wa, let's see what are the nullifiers of Islam that deem the 'Iranian people' Kufaar, as you seem to imply.

 

Rahima, we seem to be saying the same thing but i will come IA and show you the danger of Sayyid's blanket takfiir. I expected from you to scoff it without qualification. this thread is getting very interesting, and intend to partake it IA.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Salafi da'wa:

Just because one says the Shahaada doesnt mean your muslim. This biggest misconception muslims have about their own faith.

And yet there isn't a single muslim who hasn't professed the Shahada. While there are plenty of muslims who declared the Shahada but lazily keep up with all other Islamic obligations. Accordingly one can't be a muslim without affirming the Shahada. In other words, ANYONE who affirms the Shahada is a muslim.

[S.O.S]

Also remind him that you believe Sayyid Qutb (the Egyptian) to be an innovator. Remember rule no. 13 from your manual? It forbade the Also remind him that you believe Sayyid Qutb (the Egyptian) to be an innovator. Remember rule no. 13 from your manual? It forbade the challenging of rulers as long as they were [referring to themselves as] Muslims.

Viking,

 

We are not discussing Seyyid Qutb (raximahullaah) here, rather it is Iranian shi'ism! If your intention was to sidetrack this subject, then pls ignore my point and concider it not posted...almost could predict your reaction...

[Pi]

^^ Dude, this thread wasnt started to discuss whether Iran is a Kaafir nation or not. Someone just decided to switch gears. Why are you bothered if someone else tries to switch again? Besides, I think Viking was just reminding Sayid- a good reminder too- that he shouldnt be too confident about Salafi's agreement, because Salafi even surpasses Sayid when it comes to Takfeeri or Tabdeei' tendencies. Case in point: Even Sayid Qutb is considered by the wahhabbi/salafi/madkhalis to be a ignornat innovator. That's not too far off the current topic anymore than Sayid's first response was off.

[Sayyid]

C'mon, don't act like you're dumb, poor kashanre.

 

What is up with this wahhabism that everyone seems to have a go at.

 

For the record I am not a wahhabi, in fact there is no one who calls himself a wahhabi because the term/description was coined by the British because out of mockery, like the orietalists invented the description Mohammedanism!

 

We do not worship the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him, nor do we worship Muhammed bin Abdiwahhab!

 

Muhammed bin Abdiwahhab, was a righteous man who saw the ignorance of his contemporary, who worshipped graves and dead people, that's why he preached the tawhid (the oneness of Allaah), only for that reason was he made an escapegoat and a viallain!

 

Even my grandmother, when she encounters a difficulty she says and prays to dead people e.g. she says: Awoowe Faarax Shirwacow, Abdulqaadirow so forth etc.

 

That's blantant shirk because what can a dead person do for you! Is beyond comprehension and absolute shirk.

 

Muslims have to stop worshipping graves and dead people, is that something to get angry about? That's what you call wahhabism, although it's called tawhiid (or confessing to the onenes of Allaah the glorified).

 

The shia are even worse their imamate is more important to them than Allaah the glorified!

 

Now that's something to get worried about I say.