She's A Thoroughly Modern Muslim

[Khayr]

^^^^^

 

I agree, calling someone a Munafiq is a very harsh lable.

 

 

On another note, I just read the muslim version of 'Glamour Girl' titled "Muslim Girl". They have some seriously suspect people as contributors and funny enough-tit for tat, the magazine has hijabis and non-hijabis striking glamour girl like poses. The whole symbolsim of hijab and gender differences in Islam is thrown out the window.....

[NGONGE]

^^^ Make sure you're sitting down as you read this

 

 

Dutch politician launches committee for ex-Muslims

AFP

 

September 11, 2007

 

THE HAGUE -- A controversial Dutch politician, Ehsan Jami, Tuesday launched a committee for ex-Muslims to support those who have renounced the Islamic faith, following the example of similar associations in Germany and Britain.

 

"We are breaking the taboo that comes with renouncing Islam, but also taking a stand for reason, universal rights and values, and secularism," said a declaration signed by Jami, Mina Ahadi of the German association of ex-Muslims, and their British counterpart Maryam Namazie, who are all of Iranian origin.

 

Jami, a 22-year-old local Labor politician, has been front-page news in the Netherlands since August, after he was attacked in the street.

 

He is known for his outspoken stance against Islam. In interviews he called the Prophet Mohammed "criminal," and compared him to Osama Bin Laden.

 

The official launch of his committee for ex-Muslims September 11 has sparked criticism. According to Jami's advisors, this day was chosen to associate the initiative against intolerance. However, critics argue that picking this date serves only to link Islam to terrorism.

 

"We will wage a fight, we will talk with the people in mosques, representatives of Dutch Muslim organizations, and Dutch people," Jami told a packed press conference called to mark the signing of the declaration.

 

The German committee called "Wir haben abgeschworen" (We have renounced) has some 400 members, including secular Germans who were not originally Muslims, said Ahadi. The British council of ex-Muslims has some 70 members.

 

For the moment, Jami's committee is extremely small, with only two members, "but we have received hundreds of support e-mails, and that's what counts. We're more of a movement," Jami said.

 

Over 70 people, including far-right MP Geert Wilders, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, another outspoken Islam critic, who left the Netherlands for the United States, last year, have signed a declaration of support for the committee.

Source

 

This is the sort of news you feel happy with in the media. It goes to reinforce your own sterotype, doesn't it?

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by Tallpoppy:

^^I know a lot of women that do not cover their heads and still pray. They usually carry a custom made purse with a prayer scarf in it.

This is a mockery of islam, worship Allah and obey the commandment to make salat for 20 minutes or so during the prayer times, and not worship Allah and disobey the commandment/ayats of Allah to hijab in modesty the rest of the day. This is mockery of Islam my dear sister, please advice those sisters if u know them personally. Hijab not just covering the head, but modesty and not wearing tight clothing is a commandment of Allah just like salat its obligatory upon the Muslims to be distinct from the non-muslim, and a Muslim is he or she that when they know the ayats of Allah, they obey it. Allah is Most Mercful Most Forgiving, true lakiin this deen is not for mockery but is serious.

 

 

Originally posted by MC Xamar:

Khalaf

Of course a woman should follow the commandment of Allah SWT in that she should cover her head, but I think that's way too extreme to be calling them munafiqeen. That's a very serious accusation that shouldn't be taken lightly. You'd be best to re-phrase that.

Someone that knows the commandments of Allah, yet ignores it akhi? Hijab is a commandment from Allah just like salaat, its worship. So for example, if I don’t pray salaat, I am not a good Muslim there is hypocrisy in me, because I ignore the commandments of Allah.

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by Ghanima:

Khalaf go to hell (Inshallah not)but seriously what the hell is wrong with you??

I know ur joking, lakiin there are certain things never to joke about, and that is saying to another Muslim go to hell. May Allah save me from the hellfire and u my dear sister. And there is nothing wrong with me, maybe there is somthing wrong with you?

 

People like you do my head in.

People that tell the truth do ur head in?

 

I suppose just because she does not cover her head, she might as well drink, have sex, forget prayer and fast and everything else after all she is not covering herself :mad:

I have never said that, u are assuming things and putting words into my mouth. Hijab is not covering the head only sister, hijab is modesty in clothing and behavior, and a commandment from Allah. The prophet scw said the believing women (n men) should be distinct and not look like the non-muslims, and prophet scw cursed the women that show off their bodies and wear tight clothing. I am only stating what the deen said.

 

Maybe she can start doing this all at once, and only then can she be classed as following Islam.

One can only truly follow Islam, when their whims/desires/nafs submits to what Allah Most Great ordered, a Muslim that disobeys parts of the religion is not following Islam, but the door to tauba is always open.

 

I have seen enough "undercover hijabs" to know it means jackshid if the rest of your actions contradict it.

What does this have to do with the topic or anything?

 

I suppose you think one who covers but does not pray or fast and does whatever hell she likes is better, after all the little material shall save her.

I have never said such a thing, again ur putting words in my mouth.

 

P.s. Deen is not what you think, or feel or like or dislike darling, nor can you dictate what parts people can adopt or leave. Everything is between individuals and their lord who will judge them and punish or reward them accordingly.

The topic was about hijab, i quoted part of the article, not based on what I think, the ayats on hijab are clear as those on salaat. Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy. (Q 103:1-3). Iman or faith in Allah will be shown by an individuals righteousness/deeds and this can only truely happen when one is obeying the commandments of Allah. You disagree?

 

And Muslims will never accept you, they always have something to pick on! Different people, we also have Sunni, shia, sufi, salafi, Ahuulu sunnah, hanfee, Shafi, Do I need to keep going?. This attitude of blame everything on kufuar is boring and sill. Muslims are lost and divided with or without the influence of none Muslims. After all it is not the none Muslims who have divided you into so many sec's is it now? We are forever barking up the wrong tree and blaming all and everyone but our own failures.

What in the world? Ukhti, this is unnecessary talk, the topic is about hijab there is no dispute upon hijab just as there is no dispute upon salat, those that have knowledge of the commandment of Allah yet still don’t obey Allah it are lacking namean, well its free world as they say, free to obey Allah or not to obey Allah, choice is up to the individuals. We ask Allah for forgiveness, Guideness and Mercy. Amiin. Salaamun.

 

 

Originally posted by Zenobia:

Kalaf and Dabshid

 

How about you obey Allah by following This Command;

 

quote:

---

Tharnee waman khalaqtu waheedan

[/qb]

Sister how does this fit into this context? Come on u can do better then that, u know this deals with areas such as not making fun of the creation of Allah. And u should know the importance of Amar bil Ma'ruf wa Nahy an al-Munkar, marka if i see a brother with earing, and i say bro this is haraam, its tradition of the kufar not the muslims, i am not wrong but followed the ayat of Allah to call eachother to good, he can proceed in haraam or give it up, its up to him and not in my power. all i am doing is calling a spade a spade here, yes sometimes its harsh but that is never my intention.

[Faheema.]

North Asked a qood question

 

quote:

-------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Northerner:

 

How many encourage sisters to cover up when on their daily travels tolow?

-------------------------------------------------

 

Yet, there is no straight answer from the surwaal gaabne, cumamed wearing, anaa saxsan and I know it all preachers :rolleyes:

 

Hadaydaan intaa ku filnanyn, Live and let live... Ilahay dambigooda dusha idinkamuu saarine.

[Khalaf]

Tolow why are ppl getting all offended, its discussion forum, we are discussing thats it.

I know that was indirect reference to me Shyma and yes i encourage sisters that i know to cover, and i have three sisters marka i know the issue of hijab and what girls go through. the best role models are the Muslim Muhajabas, to show the symbol of Islam proudly and with strength and knowledge to the weak sisters that don't cover and resemble the non-muslims.

[Tahliil]

WE ARE NOT CHIMPANZEES ON BANANAS….WE BELONG TO THE HUMAN SPECIES TOO…BUT WE LIKE THE BANANA TOO…

 

It is simply adding fire to the fuel...I don't think there is any sane person in here who would’ve felt merry to had them stand every day before the class and recount to their school peers how normal, regular and average human beings they are....It is a very ludicrous way of approaching and finding solutions to whatever existing problems one may think that program was intended to help cast a light on…

 

If the media wants Islam to explain itself, it should have Islamic scholars on but this sort of making Muslims, every Muslim, practicing or not practicing, modern or archaic, Sufi or Salafi, whoever, lumping them altogether like that, subtly condemning them and worse making them explain and defend themselves before the world, and where in certain cases they can’t because of their lack of Islamic knowledge and association with the religion itself,is nothing else but a failing way of getting to the bottom of whatever is ailing the GOS (Good Old System)

 

I could only feel sorry for the muslims in the Diaspora….they are really caught between rock and a hard place…

[Faheema.]

Khalaf Offended? Hardly, just wondering why some people are so quick to judge and condemn others rather than being encouraging and positive. :confused:

 

p.s He's not talking about those who you know, but rather those you see in your daily travel markaad suuqa marayso.

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by Shyma:

Khalaf

Offended? Hardly, just wondering why some people are so quick to judge and condemn others rather than being encouraging and positive. :confused:

Then whats with suuwaal gaab sterotype come on now. Ukhti, these sisters (or anyone actually as my example of salat) clearly know and have the almi of the ayats and commandments of Allah, its not like they are jahil, yet still ignore the commandments, there is an aqeedah problem there as religion states. And that is what i stated.

 

p.s

He's not talking about those who

you know

, but rather those you see in your

daily travel

markaad suuqa marayso.

Well to encourage another Muslim i don't know i would have to recognize they are Muslims first, and if a sister in "travels" is not a muhajaba then i wouldn't know she was Muslim now would I?

 

Edit. for example last time i traveled, i met this older somali brother who was heading to Somalia, we talked....he asked my qabil lol namean u know drill turned out he knew my abtirisi ect....the brother was wearing a gold ring, marka i said adeer in respect gold ring wa haraam u shouldnt wear it. His jawaab: adeer duugsi waxaan diigaanjirey before u was born. ppl get annoyed to be reminded of haaq, pray salat ect.... no doubt, but that shouldn't stop us its islamic duty. and yes there is manner to remind people if thats what u are getting at i know that, and follow that manner i am very nice not mad lol, best way is to be good example urself.... but this is discussion forum.... i am not "preaching", just as u have views i also have views. Salaamun and Ramadan kareem

[Naden]

Always a wonder how that silly little fabric brings out so much discussion.

 

The Programme sounds mildly interesting, perhaps as much as any human interest 'how different yet how similar we are' sort of thing. Muslims are at the center of attention because of the large oil reserves that some of them sit on. They will remain of interest till it runs out; then the muslims of Arabia will go back to being dusty and insignificant while the remainder debate a silly little fabric the covers uncombed split-ends.

 

P.S. The women's career choices can be just a degree more interesting than this 'Gee, look Moslems are people too' trash programming.

[-Lily-]

Originally posted by Naden:

debate a silly little fabric the covers uncombed split-ends.

Naden, you can express yourself without stooping to that level :rolleyes:

[Fabregas]

Some women cover their hair and then wear extremely tight trousers..make up etc. So her hair is covered and men stare at her bottom, when she walks on the street. Or you have some that carry a scarf in their bag to use only whilst praying. Hijab and Islamic modesty refers to the covering of the body...but most importantly the spritual conduct of the Muslimah.When the person truly tastes Iman...then they love Allah swt so much that they obeys commands and takes what he reccomends.

 

On the other hand you have people who dress modestly because of societies pressures,but commit all kinds of Dambi. Walahi, I met sum girls in Somalia who said they would throw away their hijabs and clothes.. if they got to the West. A relative of mine was even encouraged to do so...on her way to the U.K. Are they any better or pious then the women in the programme, who said she is waiting to fight the right time?

[Ibtisam]

^^ Perfectly said.

 

Khayr:

Listen to Sh. Mustafa Xaji Islmaciils tasfeer (1999) for Surah Al Mutaffafin. I don’t do modern or old interpretations of Islam and I hope I will never join the kind of people who exploit religion to suit their life style.

 

People there is no poitn arguing about this, Islam is not a black and white as somepeople try to make out, whereby people are either free of sin, or condemned to go to Hell. Although you might find it hard to believe, there are gray areas: Firstly repentance, and how can I forget, there is Allah who is Most Gracious, Most Merciful, and who knows our fate. No one should try to condemn and judge people based on what we do not know.

 

Verse 5:48 states, “For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rights. Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness.” So Allah gave us differences so that we may choose and have a choice in the way we lead our lives, each one us will make the choice they think is correct because in the Hereafter we will be our own judges, “The human being will be his own judge. No excuses will be accepted.” 75:14-15: It has been said that we should judge others in the manner that we will want to be judged yourself. Judging people based on their dress, their religion, or appearances rather than their individual beliefs and actions is prejudice.

 

Finally:

O you who believe, you should worry only about your own necks. If the others go astray, they cannot hurt you, as long as you are guided. To God is your ultimate destiny, all of you, then He will inform you of everything you had done. (5:105)

 

No soul bears the sins of any other soul. Ultimately, to your Lord is your return,then He will inform you of everything you had done. He is fully aware of the innermost thoughts. (39:7) so the You guys can rest and leave people to Allah. It is not our role to judge or condemn people for their actions. Verse 7:2 states, “This scripture has been revealed to you, you shall not harbor doubt about it in your heartthat you may warn with it, and to provide a reminder for the believers.” You see!! remind and warn people with it, not to judge and condemn people by it. It is our own egos and insecurity that makes us want everyone to do and believe as we do.

 

Naden: That is a cheap shot that achieves nothing, how odd you mock the society these TV programs are aimed at but here you are repeating the same ignorant stereotypes.

 

P.s. Can I just say that holier-than-thou self-righteous attitude is in itself a much worse sin than the short comings of those they are shouting at and condoning to hell. I feel sorry for the people who look to your for guidance, and who with your attitude you push away from the deen. Your contradictor approach not to mention your "I know better than you, you are wrong, I am better than you" while trying to maintain a discussion is just sill. Self righteous attitudes are repugnant to the spirit of Islam and it takes you away from Islam.

 

P.s.s Khalaf it is clear that a munaafia will be going to hell if she dies in that state, so have you not condone many to hell.

 

I don't like arguing about religion because I don't believe I'm in a position to do so, so I'm just gonna leave it there before I collect sins.

[NinBrown]

You know is funny how people nowadays find it difficult to deal with islamic issues. We have reached a stage where people who disobey allah are praised and protected and people who act upon the commandments of allah are insulted and rejected.

Allah says in the quran the following ayats [104] Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: they are the ones to attain felicity. AND [110] Ye are the best of Peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had Faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have Faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. So can someone tell how one can act upon these ayats with out judging the outward appearence of someone.

 

Please people should not act with emotions when it comes to religious matters and people should act with certain knowledge.

 

However, the quran also tells us how we should approach this subject in surah An-Nahl [125] Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

[Naden]

Lily and Ghanima, my sincere apologies ladies, that was a st*upid and unnecessary insulting remark.

 

It still stands that Muslims always fall back on a severely insignificant piece of cloth. We flock to any spot in the world to be away from moral and ethical decline in our backyards. Corruption, bribery, non-existent human rights, and so on. There are far richer and deeper issues that need debate than this safe, superficial, symbol of Islam.