Somalia in 1978 - Pics

[Gabbal]

In early to mid '90s, they controlled the small town of Luuq. Initially they were welcomed, but their continued rigidity was the last nerve that got on Soomaalis, who are inherently anarchist republic, that lived in that small town. They even welcomed the Itoobiyans who kicked the Al Itixaads.

Siyaasad qalaf ah daliil haka dhigin. Al Itihad waxa lagula dagaalay siyaasad iyo qabaa'il bay ku dhisnayde diin kumaysan dhisnayn. Diin ahaan aad iyo aad baa loosoo dhaweeyay oo loo rabay, colaadihi wagii jidhay baa haari waayoo qabaa'il baa lagu cayrshe.

 

Teeda kale, kun jeer baa la yidhi jalbaab is a form of hijaab, and although it is not the only form countless scholars have agreed acknowledged that it is the closest to the ones worn during the Ashaab days. Maxaad u kala saari marka?

 

Meesha waxa loo dulqaadan waaye waxay ahayd, yasida, cayda, iyo aflagaada maxaa keenay oo lagu caynayo wax diinteena ku dhisan? Haday ku imaado doorsho, anagoona meela kale aadin, yaan cidahayagu eegnay oo daliil ka dhiganay inay qasabaad ahayne dooroshaad tahay. Quruxdeeda maxaa kaaga jido? Haday nafsadaadu diidayso, maad u daaysid kuwa nafsadooda u ogolaatay? Hadaadse gabadh ahayn oo nin rag tahay, waaba wax la yaab ah o cajaa'ib ah inaad afka la aadid wax ku qusayn. Inaad la caytamid oo aflagadeesid walaalahayn oo asturane door Alle u dortay waa wax aan u dul qaadanayn oo kaa difaaceeno.

 

Arin la yaab ahaa meesha ka dhacday, though it is something I place under the context "internet phenomenon". Waa tahay.

[Valenteenah.]

Xiin,

 

Hello. And off we go again.

 

I take especial pride in defending the jalbaab. It is a Hijaab to me, and for that it deserves respect as it represents the application of Allahs command.

That isn't an issue for me as I respect the hijab as well. You are more than welcome to defend the jilbaab. It may be your preferred choice of Hijab on a woman, but it isn't everyone's preferred choice. To state that mocking the jilbaab is tantamount to mocking God's Law is rather absurd. Allah's Law says be modest and cover your hair and bossom, and Muslim scolars went one further and drew up a list of requirements that a garment will need to satisfy to be considered a hijab. So far so good.

 

How can saying anything about the jilbaab be sacrilegious when the jilbaab is not sacred? When no single type of Hijab has been specified in either the Qur'an or hadith? There's no universal hijab (even in today's globalised world, where cultural styles are available to all, there still remain distinct differences in how Muslim women cover up). Each culture and geography have their own hijab (the point Castro & MMA were trying to make). So in this regard, it isn't a stretch of the mind to imagine that the Hijab could and probably has taken any shape, form, size or style. Small or large, stylish or frumpy, beautiful or ugly, comical or ridiculous, THEY ALL EXIST! And most of us have seen (and laughed at) enough varieties. So yes, Xiin, I would like to see you back you claim up with clear unambiguous evidence.

 

 

Now in regard to the issue of discourtesy, you know what I was talking about dear. Do you think being passionate about your diin and respecting the Hijab amounts to insulting people and accusing them of being anti-Islam? From my observation, individuals wrote their disapproval of the jilbaab, they did not insult the women who wear it (in fact they seemed more concerned about whether these women were feeling forced into wearing the jilbaab by society). As I see it, their issue was with the jilbaab, not Muslim women, because I would have been offended if I thought otherwise. Perceptions, I guess.

 

 

The type of Hijab women take up is influenced by any number of factors. Moreso, if a certain group really like a particular style of Hijab, it's only natural that another group will find that style totally inappropriate or completely deteste it. And of course, it's open to them to do that. Because someone dislikes a certain style of Hijab, does not mean that person is against the Hijab or that they are anti-Islamic (the usual accusations on SOL).

 

Let me give you a hypothetical example now. A jilbaabi woman may find the khimaar/cabaaya outfit completely silly. She may look down on women who wear it because she feels they are taking the easy way out, that they are not fully serious about their hijab. Now this woman's opinion would probably offend me and I would disagree with her, BUT I wouldn't presume that she was against the hijab or that she was being Anti-Islam just because she dislikes those garments. And I'm certain neither would you! So why do people engage in that behaviour on SOL? Why do they insist on lashing out and elienating anybody who asks difficult questions or who has a different view?

 

From my perspective, since the majority of SOL members are Muslim, I usually take it for granted that discussions are taking place within an Islamic framework. There's nothing wrong with discussing the internal workings of the diin, because no one is born with the knowledge they need to function Islamically. We're all learning as we go along. It's a natural human instinct to question and doubt, especially if something doesn't make sense to you. But as soon as someone brings up a certain issue that they may have a personal problem with, or they state something they dislike about Muslims (note: Islam isn't usually the problem, it's Muslims - the people who practice Islam and who are by no means angels. But the distinction is usually thrown out), suddenly their faith and principles are being questioned. Suddenly they are being accused of a whole hog of crimes against Islam. Suddenly they are being spoken to like they are not Muslims and that they have no right to discuss Islamic issues.

 

How could you be certain that in your vehement defence of Islam, you are not pushing someone out of Islam? That in dropping courtesy, you are not putting someone off permanently?

 

I am not against setting people straight or informing them if you think they have the wrong end of the stick. But the vilifying and the intimidation tactics used by you guys is hard to swallow.

 

So, yes, dear Xiin, I do have a sense of right and wrong. Indeed, I have a very strong sense of right and wrong. I may disagree with my 'foes' as you put it, I may debate with them and attempt to show what, in my eyes, is wrong with their views. But, I would never presume to bring their faith into question, and I would certainly never question whether they are Muslim or not. I usually work from the premise that they are, unless they specifically say they aren't. Unfortunately, I find that the opposite is prevalent here.

 

I suppose this, more than anything else, is what concerns me the most. It is also the reason I always get involved in these sorts of tussles. I never even get the chance to write my take on the topic, because I am always responding to throw-away accusations against others. It's almost funny....Yous: He/she is Un-Islamic, sacrilegious, sinful, blasphemous, etcetra etcetra. Me: Not exactly. What he/she actually said was....

 

Kinda tiring. I don't know why I do it, but suffice to say, I will probably be back again tomorrow, arguing about the same thing.

 

Eid mubarak and all.

 

 

*Slinks off*

[xiinfaniin]

Good morning all;

 

Ahura,

 

Now you’re talking. I shall provide the justifications of my previous statements; that it is sin to mock Jalbaab. In fact it is sin to mock any application of Allah’s verses. Now I am at work and I don’t like to google such important stuff and give you quotes from the net.

For that, I beg your patience till I get home.

 

Now, do I still see you insist the villains are the religious folks here? Who insulted whom? Who raised the objections? Who commenced the name-calling parade? You see, what the mind does not know the eyes can’t see. Not that I want to spend energy in dwelling in the past, but insisting the defenders of the Jalbaab have impeded this discussion disservices this debate. Castro, Socod-badane and Co have shown us their deep animosity against this religious gown. Others including you have yet to recognize that jalbaab is not just a piece of cloth, but also an implementation of a Qur’anic verse. Those who wear it do so in compliance with Allah’s command. You’re still trying, walaal, to make a distinction without a difference when you insist that jalbaab is different than Hijaab. That the two are same genre is not absurd. And by logical extension, if you mock or ridicule jalbaab it is tantamount to mocking Hijaab. To rob the jalbaab from its honor in the name of alien and ugly is a sheer sophistry (I wavered to use dishonesty there).

 

Granted it is most productive to debate in the spirit of benefiting from each other. But what if one insists to reside in the lowest level of any discussion and resorts to cheap name-calling? Do you still think we should have practiced their courtesy and give the other cheek, as it were, and cede our sword? Walaal balaayaa ilaahay gacanta noo geliyey; and they want to whip with leisure!

But as Antara, the pre-Islamic poet, said waan xishoonay walaal.

I see spoils, which, if I want I would win;

but my bashfulness and my magnanimity hold me back from them.

 

Respect is a mutual thing, sister.

 

Now, no one questioned anyone’s diin, with exception of me alluding to Socod-badane’s lack of faith in the sources of Islamic shariicah (I debated him before about it). The rest of participants of this thread were seemingly debating within the Islamic framework. Some chose to ignorantly scorn this jalbaab and they were deservedly reproached. My plain speech could be the source of your grievance, walaal. It caused my popularity in this site to plunge as well. But it is not the likability which I seek. Presenting my argument with clarity, and refuting those whom I think have a tendency of fighting for the wrong causes is. No intimidation tactics have been employed! The moderators have deleted posts they deemed inappropriate, including many of my classic (I insist they were classic) ones (I will reproduce them if the need be). There were vilifications but they come from other side of the aisle, so to speak. But again those you failed to see.

 

It seems now that the emotions are subsiding, and it is ripe to steer this thread to the right direction. As I said before, I will, IA, deal with the subject of mocking Jalbaab (calling descriptive and denigrating names) and why it is sin to do so.

 

Ciid Wanaagsan.

[Medley of extemporanea]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

 

Teeda kale, kun jeer baa la yidhi jalbaab is a

form

of hijaab, and although it is not the

only

form countless scholars have agreed acknowledged that it is the closest to the ones worn during the Ashaab days. Maxaad u kala saari marka?

 

Meesha waxa loo dulqaadan waaye waxay ahayd, yasida, cayda, iyo aflagaada maxaa keenay oo lagu caynayo wax diinteena ku dhisan? Haday ku imaado doorsho, anagoona meela kale aadin, yaan cidahayagu eegnay oo daliil ka dhiganay inay qasabaad ahayne dooroshaad tahay. Quruxdeeda maxaa kaaga jido? Haday nafsadaadu diidayso, maad u daaysid kuwa nafsadooda u ogolaatay? Hadaadse gabadh ahayn oo nin rag tahay, waaba wax la yaab ah o cajaa'ib ah inaad afka la aadid wax ku qusayn. Inaad la caytamid oo aflagadeesid walaalahayn oo asturane door Alle u dortay waa wax aan u dul qaadanayn oo kaa difaaceeno.

 

Arin la yaab ahaa meesha ka dhacday, though it is something I place under the context "internet phenomenon". Waa tahay.

Wallahi with regards to the parts of your statement that I quoted, you hit the nail on the head!

 

we shouldn’t say negative things about and insult those people that choose to wear a certain type of Xijaab. Why call it a tent, or say it’s ugly? Why belittle it? There is no reason to do so, and doing so will only create a quarrel.

 

Whatever the reason for the predominance of this type of xijaab in Somali after the civil war, there are people who believe that by wearing this type of xijaab people are following the way of the Sunnah.

 

Calling them names and saying they are ugly and unfashionable will only cause fighting. If you have a better style of xijaab, then do what it takes to get people to accept it.

 

And lets not mix up issues. The issue of women being forced to wear a xijaab is one thing. Would it make a difference if the women that are or feel that they are being forced to wear a certain style of xijaab were being forced or felt they were being forced to wear another style of xijaab?

 

If you are advocating for women to have a choice in the style of xijaab they wear, but you accept that women should wear xijaab; then there is no need to insult or belittle any style that is not to your liking. When you do that, your asking for a fight with those that like the style you don’t like, and people might think you are against xajaab altogether.

 

If you feel that women shouldn’t have to wear any xijaab; then it really doesn’t make any difference what the style is because it’s xijaab you disagree with.

[Valenteenah.]

Xiin,

 

Like I said, the Jilbaab is a simple garment. You can't make it into something it isn't, i.e. divine and sacred.

 

If hebel and Co have an animosity towards it, that's their own issue, and it hardly impacts on you or I. If you can't change their minds by debate, you're not going to change it by intimidation or insults.

 

That's all.

 

I await your evidence.

[Khayr]

Burden of Proof is always on the Religiously Oriented Nomads...as always :rolleyes:

 

SOL MOB rules for Religiously Oriented Nomads:

 

• They Can't have emotions and supposed to be Emotionaless

• They are not to have a sense of SELF-WORTH

• If they do have a sense of Humor, it should be self-deprevating humor, otherwise Humor is a NO-NO for them.

• They can only talk about ritualistic things, otherwise, they are deemed ILLOGICAL=WRONG VIEW i.e. E-Nuri as long as you talk about a few feel good verses, the nomads will LOVE ya! Don't talk about anything of real relevance though, thats a NO-NO!

These are Mere OPINIONS....oh I forgot, the

Message IS in the MESSENGER!

 

Alhamdulillah caala kuuli xaal wacuudi Bilaah

min xaal ahal an nar!

[Jacpher]

I see the Admin or mods chose to delete my post with no apparent explanation though I was offering a constructive criticism. Is it possible I dared the untouchable or my advice was out of line? I understand we’re living an era of political correctness and one is expected not to judge on what’s morally right or wrong. I just didn’t know SOL was up to that standard. My apology.

 

Ahura:

If Jilbaab (Hijab) is a simple garment; then Salat is a simple workout/exercise and Zakat a give away gift? No? Don’t you agree each is a form of Cibaada, a Muslim identity and symbols of Allah. If so, disparaging and denigrating is supposed to be appropriate and acceptable? Please don’t cheer them up. They don’t know the severity of mocking and poking fun at the expense of the symbols of the deen.

 

MMA:

You’re playing wag the dog tactic. Neither Al Itixaad, nor the battle of Luuq or Bari is the topic but since your grievance is unbearable, I urge you go down to your local courthouse and fill a class action lawsuit against Itixaad on behalf of your nieces. I’m sure a Canadian jury will rule on your favor. That way, SOL is no longer objected to your nagging name calling (Reer Surweelgaab) of the group.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Ducaqabe:

I see the Admin or mods chose to delete my post with no apparent explanation though I was offering a constructive criticism. Is it possible I dared the untouchable or my advice was out of line? I understand we’re living an era of political correctness and one is expected not to judge on what’s morally right or wrong. I just didn’t know SOL was up to that standard. My apology.

 

Ahura:

If Jilbaab (Hijab) is a simple garment; then Salat is a simple workout/exercise and Zakat a give away gift?

No? Don’t you agree each is a form of Cibaada, a Muslim identity and symbols of Allah. If so, disparaging and denigrating is supposed to be appropriate and acceptable? Please don’t cheer them up. They don’t know the severity of mocking and poking fun at the expense of the symbols of the deen.

 

MMA:

You’re playing wag the dog tactic. Neither Al Itixaad, nor the battle of Luuq or Bari is the topic but since your grievance is unbearable, I urge you go down to your local courthouse and fill a class action lawsuit against Itixaad on behalf of your nieces. I’m sure a Canadian jury will rule on your favor. That way, SOL is no longer objected to your nagging name calling (Reer Surweelgaab) of the group.

Ducqabe, waar khaatir baa taaxey!

 

Alhamdulillah

[Valenteenah.]

Ducaqabe,

 

WoW. The misinformation in here is proving lethal. Walaalo, the Salah and Zakat together with the Shahada, Saum and Hajj are the foundations of Islam. “They are the framework of the Muslim life: faith, prayer, concern for the needy, self-purification, and the pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.†The hijab in contrast is a mere dress code (as well as an attitude to some). So, in a manner of speaking, the Hijab is the last lick of paint on the wall after the foundations have been laid and the construction completed. Ergo, they don't compare. Please don’t confuse yourself (and us) unnecessarily.

 

I’m not asking anybody to accept arbitrary mocking of the Diin nor am I stopping anyone from being offended by what is said in this or other threads (I thought I had reiterated this point over and over again). I just pointed out that disapproving of, criticising or, in this case, ‘mocking’ something like the jilbaab may be unpleasant to you, but it is not sacrilegious as far as I’m aware.

[xiinfaniin]

Good morning all;

 

Ahura,

 

Before I share with you this evidence let me prelude with little afeef;

 

As I have stated numerous times the premise of my argument hinges on the verity of that the jalbaab is a form of Hijaab. Hence, if you mock it you’re actually mocking at the Hijaab. Since Hijaab is an act of worship and a symbol of obedience of Allah, mocking it, it follows, is tantamount to a Mockery, or إستهزاء, سخرية in Arabic, of Allah and His verses. To show it is a sin to mock at the practical implementation of Allah’s verses, I decided to share quotes from two chapters in the Precious book.

 

Now following are quotes from those two chapters.

• First quote is from the chapter of Defrauding (المطÙÙين)

Those in sin used to laugh at those who believed,

 

[83:30]

And whenever they passed by them, used to wink at each other (in mockery);

 

[83:31]

And when they returned to their own people, they would return jesting;

 

[83:32]

And whenever they saw them, they would say, "Behold! These are the people truly astray!"

 

[83:33]

But they had not been sent as keepers over them!

 

Abdullah Yusuf’s comments would suffice;

 

The wicked laugh at the righteous in this world in many ways: (1) They inwardly laugh at their Faith, because they feel themselves so superior. (2) In public places, when the righteous pass, they wink at each other and insult them. (3) In their own houses they run them down. (4) Whenever and wherever they see them, they reproach them with being fools who have lost their way, when the boot is really on the other leg. In the Hereafter all these tricks and falsehoods will be shown for what they are, and the tables will be reversed. But the wicked critics of the Righteous have no call in any case to sit in judgment over them. Who set them as Keepers or guardians over the Righteous? Let them look to their own condition and future first.

 

 

• Second quote is from the chapter of Repentance (التوبة)

[9:65]

If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): "We were only talking idly and in play." Say: "Was it at God, and His Signs, and His Apostle, that ye were mocking?"

[9:66]

Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.

 

 

*If thou dost question them = if you do question them.

 

Clearly to mock is the habit of disbelievers and hypocrites. Reflect on these verses, and see if we can make ‘such solemn matters subjects of playful jokes’

 

Ciid Wanaagsan all.

 

P.S: Are you, Ahura, an arabic reader?

[Valenteenah.]

Xiin, I think you have made a valiant effort, but I'm afraid your evidence would not apply to this case as it's out of context.

 

As I have stated numerous times the premise of my argument hinges on the verity of that the jalbaab is a form of Hijaab.

Hence

, if you mock it you’re actually mocking at the Hijaab

Jilbaab is a form of hijab, yes. However, the 'hence' is from YOU and how YOU see it. My argument is that mocking the jilbaab is NOT mocking the hijab, because the Jilbaab is only a subset of the hijab. If u negate it, you are not negating the whole concept of hijab. Do you see where I'm coming from? The premise of your entire argument is misleading.

 

 

 

Since Hijaab is an act of worship and a symbol of obedience of Allah, mocking it, it follows, is tantamount to a Mockery of Allah and His verses

This again is your own deduction. The proof you provided doesn’t justify the main point. It only justifies the conclusion you arrived at on your own. Secondly, mocking somebody because they choose to be Muslims cannot compare in any way, shape or form to mocking a ‘style’ of hijab! My God.

 

 

I’m not making a case for the mocking of the jilbaab or for that matter any application of Allah’s laws. However, I do believe that people should not be accused of something they are clearly not guilty off (i.e. being sacrilegious, in this case). Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

The wicked laugh at the righteous in this world in many ways: (1) They inwardly laugh at their Faith, because they feel themselves so superior. (2) In public places, when the righteous pass, they wink at each other and insult them. (3) In their own houses they run them down. (4) Whenever and wherever they see them, they reproach them with being fools who have lost their way, when the boot is really on the other leg. In the Hereafter all these tricks and falsehoods will be shown for what they are, and the tables will be reversed. But the wicked critics of the Righteous have no call in any case to sit in judgment over them. Who set them as Keepers or guardians over the Righteous? Let them look to their own condition and future first.

Just one more thing, Xiin, do you believe any of those who have taken part in this discussion so far are guilty of the above? Surely not!

 

I think it is about time I departed from this thread.

 

 

Eid mubarak!

[Gabbal]

^Let me go between you and odayga xabeebay.

 

Jilbaab is a form of hijab, yes. However, the 'hence' is from YOU and how YOU see it. My argument is that mocking the jilbaab is NOT mocking the hijab, because the Jilbaab is only a subset of the hijab. If u negate it, you are not negating the whole concept of hijab. Do you see where I'm coming from? The premise of your entire argument is misleading.

Ahura, do you not see your argument sis? Let's see what you have admitted and let's go on from there. Hijab is covering. Jilbaab is the covering a section of pious Muslims carry out that duty. By insulting and mocking the jilbaab, you are mocking and insulting those Muslims' covering, i.e their hijaab, and by that you are insulting and mocking a decree that was set from above. Sis, this is no rocket science; it doesn't require over-analyzation because it isn't complicated.

 

Secondly, mocking somebody because they choose to be Muslims cannot compare in any way, shape or form to mocking a ‘style’ of hijab!

And they shouldn't compare. But mocking a person for choosing to be a Muslim is just as serious as mocking a Muslim for acting out on the beliefs of their religion. Whether it is a piece of cloth, khimar, jilbaab, or otherwise naught matters because it is the intention of donning the hijab that matters and attacking and ridiculing someone for carrying out that intention is not only an insult to the laws ordained from above but also to us onlookers. It is and it is our duty to fight against it.

 

I’m not making a case for the mocking of the jilbaab or for that matter any application of Allah’s laws. However, I do believe that people should not be accused of something they are clearly not guilty off (i.e. being sacrilegious, in this case). Nothing more and nothing less.

Nothin in Islam can be called sacreligious other then Shirk and that is because of the mercy of Allah. The unconditional forgiveness he bestowes upon those who repent and ask for it will not let anything stand as sacreligious. However, we will call spade for a spade. Anti-Islamic attacks, particularly against woman for practing what they deem is the correct way of worship (such as this) will warrant our severest responses and defense. We will accuse them of immaturity, lack of morality, irresponsibility, agressiveness, hypocritism, and all other befitting labels on this earth! If you don't like it, FINE, then keep your comments to yourself and don't spew irresponsible nonsense near us [not aimed at you Ahura lest you were wondering].

[Katrina]

I think it is about time I departed from this thread.

Ahura walaalo thank you. You have no idea (on second thought I bet you do know) how often I've dealt with this issue since my friggin childhood, Allahu Akbar!

I have no sides to take only my interpretation of the Quraan and Sunnah on this issue. Your time, energy and patience along with others (eg CW) has not been in vain, at least where I'm concered.JZK

[Gabbal]

^Hello!

 

You're making it seem like the issue is about what is the correct form of hijaab or which is nullified and which is accepted. It is not. The issue is about showing respect to those that wear this form of hijab, because of their own choosing in dar Allah. If you do not wear it like that, it is fine by us. However, you must not relagate the debate to what is not about and not give due respect where it is due.

[Taleexi]

Hijab, Veil, cover or call it whatever reasonable other name you like; it is commanded deed in the Qur'an to the believers, meaning that in religion you can not have second thoughts or be selective, take it as it is. otherwise Wallahay beertaad gelaysaa. However, how to wear it is a matter open to a debate.