Somalia in 1978 - Pics

[Valenteenah.]

I really shouldn't be surprised, but I can't fail to be saddened by the behaviour of some nomads. Apparently the self-appointed 'defenders' of the Diin believe that the way to engage with those they disagree with is to holler hell and damnation, intimidate and insult, and worse cast aspersions on others' faith. They behave as though Islam belongs to them alone and act as though they make the decision as to who will go to hell or heaven. Worse, these attitudes seem to be condoned by the rest. What a disgrace.

 

No one questioned the validity of Hijab in this thread. The topic under discussion was the jilbaab, but rather than debating it's merits/problems in a civilised manner, some of the brothers resorted to base insinuations and direct character attacks. For shame.

 

By all means, debate and debate well. Rebuke and correct. Inform and learn. But do not be so arrogant as to think that you know it all or even a fraction of all. Do not be so vile as to look down on others, especially when you don't know what is in their hearts. Lastly, do not act as though you own Islam because you don't. Diintu belongs to Allah and is open to every human alive. Cidna kama xigtaan diinta markaa dadka amaan siiya, for God's sake.

 

 

Rahima:

Ahura,

 

Tent as a description is not hurtful or sacrilegious. Like I said the square hijab does look like a napkin,

laakiin it is the form and tone in which it is said which makes it sacrilegious. To say such taunts, be it ‘tent’ or ‘napkin’ in a tone of yasid (which Castro seemingly did- I still have not been corrected in case I am wrong) is sacrilegious.

You are a hijabi Ahura, and you know how degrading and hurtful taunts such as ‘napkin’ and ‘tent’ in a tone of yasid can be. That is the point of contention here, at least as far as I’m concerned anyway.

Hello. Reading your post, it occurs to me that it all comes down to interpretation. We both read Castro's posts, but clearly understood it differently. You feel he is being sacrilegious because of his 'tent' comment which came across as 'yasid', a 'put down' of jilbaabis, so to speak.

 

I guess that's a perfectly reasonable deduction to make. Now, whether Castro meant his 'Tent' comment as a simple description or a put down, I cannot say (only he can answer that - but I am more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and take it as a description). However, what I disagree with is the assertion that it's sacrilegious to call the jilbaab a 'tent' in whatever tone. The jilbaab is no way or form sacred (it's simply a garment one wears). Just as some brothers feel that wearing shortened trousers is better than wearing longer versions, the jilbaab may be taken as a superior form of hijab, but that does not make it sacred. It remains a simple over-garment. Of course, it should be respected and mocking it should certainly be discouraged. But sacrilegious, it isn't.

 

We know Allah's Word/directive is sacred, we know the Qur'an is Sacred, but clothes cannot be sacred. Muslim women often choose to wear skirts because they feel it's more modest that trousers, that does not make skirts sacred. Going to Hajj is a sacred experience, but the 2/3 pieces of white cotton that the pilgrims wear is not sacred. Simply put, clothes can never be sacred.

 

I hope I have explained myself well because there's simply nothing else I can add. You may disagree with Castro's arguements, you may believe his points are invalid, but you can't accuse him of being sacrilegious. That's all I have been trying to clarify all along.

 

Nabadey.

 

 

PS: Rahima, I understand where you're coming from in regard to the quote below.

 

As a Hijabed Muslimah who has bore the brunt of similar taunts from the gaalo, this insistence to receive the same from your own brethren is on one hand saddening and the other absolutely disgusting. With that I leave this thread, but for any person who insists on using that word, I’d advise you to re-think it especially with regards to its impact.

[Modesty]

I don't know why some people here are attacking the hijab. CW I honestly do believe that the hijab on the right..the one without her boob sticking out is the right one. Why is it when it comes to hijabing the right way, people start attacking saudi arabia...that is just absurd. Properly hijabed women don't have life hard, they have self-confidence in their Deen and that is the best feeling in the world. I would rather dress like a black blop knowing I'm following the commandments of Allah, than to wear a little flowered khimar with a matching skirt and smelling of perfume so all the perverts can gawk at me. The world means nothing, so what if some people don't like you looking like a blop, at least for following the commands of Allah you will get Jannah for eternity, instead of seeking the temporary pleasure of this Dunya by following the commands of Hollywood.

[Allamagan]

^^ Exactly!!

[Baluug]

I don't even know why we're arguing over the hijab in the first place. This is a thread for pictures of Somalia in 1978, not for discussion over hijab....The Islam forum is that-a-ways---------->

[Castro]

Originally posted by Paragon:

Castro, I thought we were talking about the Somali version of the Jilbaab, not the Saudi's or any other version.

Somalia does not exist in vaccuum saaxib. What we were talking about is the element of choice, a rather non-geographrical entity.

 

And that we were talking about the Somali version of the Jilbaab in post-1990s, in which there is no overarching authority in a position to impose rules upon citizen's dresscodes. Waxaad ila aadey France iyo Sacuudiga adna

When there is no rule of law (though our former dictatorship can hardly be associated with law and order), certain segments of society step up to fill that void. In addition to providing some security, these segments (often Islamic associations, Al-Ittihad comes to mind but not exclusively) provide much needed social and economical services to society. It's not a great leap in imagination to speculate that in exchange for these goods and services, there may be an element of "education" of the society involved. I'm sure Islamic organizations have done much to relieve the misery of Somalis post 1990. I'm not so sure that assistance came with little or no strings attached. It may not rise to the level of outright oppression as I alluded (for I have no evidence of that) but it probably qualifies as a form of coercion. If one is in need and the only available providers are Islamic organizations who would put up a sign as the one CW posted, that person would be compelled to conform just to eat, for instance.

 

 

I went to Kenya and I was surprised to see Somalis there (where there is a state that use to intentionally discourage even Xijaab in schools), embraced the Jilbaab in proportions I couldn't imagine.

There is no doubt choice exists for some. That much is clear to me now. When someone in Ottawa battles the snides of red-neck Canadians in the harsh winter cold wearing a jilbaab (the one that looks like a tent), I wouldn't think they were simply wearing that to defy society and avoid looking for work (though some may be doing it for that reason). It is when you are in an environment (lawful or lawless) and that dress is required to perform basic day to day living such as shopping in the market or going to a park or even going to work, and a person is not interested in wearing it (for whatever reason), there choices are limited by the pressures they face from society.

[xiinfaniin]

Ahura,

 

Jalbaab is a form of Hijaab. Hijaab is an application of Qur’anic verse. Hajj is a form of cibaadah; an act of worship. It is an execution of divine law. No matter how one goes in circles, mocking at jalbaab is a mockery of Allah’s law. It is a sin. Period. Do u want hear religious justification for what I just wrote? Just ask!

 

Now here you come, good Ahura, accusing others with bad manners, and you yourself raise a voice cracked with emotions. How judgmental of you is it to lay the blame squarely on the door of your cyber foes? Do you have a sense of right and wrong? Yes I am asking YOU. And I am a dead serious. Do you expect us to be courteous to those who made capital out of offending muslimaat of this site! Why are you not offended when one questions the intent of those who wear it? Accuses them that they are merely mimicking foreign culture that is alien to them? Depicts them as ugly and out fashion, who has no taste for style. And despite all the repeated pleas to stop his ridicule and leave these Hijaabs alone, continues to disparage. Now tell me, good Ahura, who provoked the bear?

 

Praise us, good Ahura, with qualities you know we possess, as we are gentle to associate with when not ill treated and insulted, walaal. We don’t insult others. But the broken man has repeatedly tested our patience by tainting our much-groomed self with his insults. That will never be tolerated, I promise.

 

We challenged them first to present coherent logic behind their protest. Raving and going in circles we got. We informed them to shut up then and leave this piece of cloth to the sisters who so proudly wear it. That I thought was not much of a favor to ask. But again the name-calling parade continued. It was a tent at first. Then a a sand box, a beach towel,and a pyramid followed. People never ceased to amaze me with their creative writing! Do the words have a private meaning? I don’t know about you but its my understanding when someone calls jalbaab a tent (repeatedly) he means to disparage, shows his dislike of it, and thinks it is a bad taste of style (these are not deductions, mind you). To be generous and forgiving is a virtue. But to selectively apply it is crooked and signifies injustice.

 

In the eyes of Allah all people are equal. What distinguishes one from the rest is the amount of good deeds he/she did. I can’t judge what’s your intent. But I can read and comprehend what you write on this cyber screen and on it I base my analysis of your piece.

 

I can’t speak for others, but I take especial pride in defending the jalbaab. It is a Hijaab to me, and for that it deserves respect as it represents the application of Allahs command. Can a one be much clearer than that? Mock it, and you will sure have me in your face.

[Paragon]

Castro, thanks for the reply. Now saaxiib, I have one more question to ask (I mean to ask again with little comment). Since you've mentioned the circumstance in which a Somali woman can be forced (by say Islamic Organizations operating in Somalia)to choose to wear the Jilbaab, in the interest of logic: can something that came about as a result of choice (see your second point) be used as a 'tool of oppression'? If so, can it not be true that one can again choose to abandon that which she chose? Do bear with me, please.

[Faarax-Brawn]

I think it is not fair to call the persons calling the jilabeeb foreign ,ugly and tents as anti-deen. It is not fair and it certainly aint the point they were tryna make.(I hope) I personally detested the word tent(& sand Pyramid,beach towel and sand box), I did not get a proper response from castro & Co as to why he decided to refer to the Jilabeeb as a tent,but was clearly(visually) explained by Ahura.

I could see why he called it a tent, it resembles a tent,it has has the corners of a tent, and it the material is as heavy as a tent. I thought it was not a very nice thing to say about it(Ah!), Rahima, myself ,FF, Ducaqabe,Xiin & A bunch of others saw it as unfreindly "Tone" against the jilabeeb. Ahura, Saw it from another angle, a description of a cloth that is just a mere garment. Certainly logical me thinks.

 

But as of now, that garment is a symbol of ISLAM, I Personally Believe we shouldn’t refer to it by any other name,especially from fellow muslims. I have personally learnt to respect hijabies when i was a teenager; Thanks to my momma who gave me a tongue lashing 12yrs ago(in Kenya) when I told my sister 'Black Ninja' when she first adorned the jilabeeb. She looked odd, different and tottaly uncool at that time.I learnt to respect her choice, I loved and admired her resolve,her iman and of coz her bravery(she attended a 99% christian school). No one forced her,Certainly not by my parents. They were tolerant they taught us the right vs the wrong and we obeyed em,never feared em.

 

Meanwhile I looked like a stepped out of the cast of Houseparty(the Movie),whereby me and Kid N play shared the same barber,my pants literally sweeping the tarmac of eastleigh(she later used to call me "Nairobi city council"). I memorised everyline of Dr Dre's "Gthang" hit., I wore Jordan's number 23 clothes and Nike shoes. Everything in me was foreign, I even spoke like an American.and here I was making fun of her. I know the Irony eh? (Btw Hooyo & Abo didn’t get to see this side of me,I would have been banished ). My sister,always as cool as the cucumber calmly pointed out how foreign I looked from tip to toe. I was lost, but i learnt alxamdulilah.

 

Since then i have always had a special respect for hijabis. I have learnt to respect them,their determination and the composure. My entire family is hijabed,They look very beautiful Mashallah, and no matter where we go, they proudly carry that symbol of islam, and for that reason, I respect what the jilabeeb stands for.(Regardless of its tent shape). The day anyone mocks my sister for wearing the jilabeeb....is the day i will probably get violent.

 

Lets respect the Garment,until we find a better Garment. That’s my Word

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Afronaut:

But as of now, that garment is a symbol of ISLAM, I Personally Believe we shouldn’t refer to it by any other name,especially from fellow muslims. I learnt to respect hijabies way back, Thanks to my momma who gave me a tongue lashing 12yrs ago(in Kenya) when I told my sister

'Black Ninja'

when she first adorned the jilabeeb. She looked odd, different and tottaly uncool at that time.I learnt to respect her choice, I loved and admired her resolve,her iman and of coz her bravery(she attended a 99% christian school). No one forced her,Certainly not by my parents. They were tolerant they taught us the right vs the wrong and we obeyed em,never feared em.

 

Meanwhile I looked like a stepped out of the cast of Houseparty(the Movie),whereby me and

Kid N play

shared the same barber,my pants literally sweeping the tarmac of eastleigh(she later used to call me "Nairobi city council"). I memorised everyline of Dr Dre's

"Gthang"

hit., I wore Jordan's number 23 clothes and Nike shoes. Everything in me was foreign, I even spoke like an American.and here I was making fun of her. I know the Irony eh? (Btw Hooyo & Abo didn’t get to see this side of me,I would have been banished

). My sister,always as cool as the cucumber calmly pointed out how foreign I looked from tip to toe. I was lost, but i learnt alxamdulilah.

 

^^ That is a good comparison, good Faarax Brown, and has much clarity.

 

Waad iga qoslisay saaxiib.

[Castro]

Since you've mentioned the circumstance in which a Somali woman can be

forced

(by say Islamic Organizations operating in Somalia)to

choose

to wear the Jilbaab

Paragon, choice and force are incongruous terms, saaxib. When one comes in through the door, the other goes out of the window. And that is speaking in general.

 

in the interest of logic:

can something that came about as a result of choice (see your second point) be used as a 'tool of oppression'

? If so,

can it not be true that one can again choose to abandon that which she chose?

Do bear with me, please.

Obviously not. If it were a choice, then force (and oppression) would have no play in it. Remember, saaxib, to choose means to either accept, select or prefer above others. To force, means to compel, inflict or impose. At no time did I suggest the wearer of such a hijaab (by choice or otherwise) is the object of mockery. The imposers, where there is no choice, are the object of my grievance.

 

P.S. I am on record indicating objection based on looks and fashionability is weak and misplaced.

 

P.P.S. Good Paragon, with this, I'm offline till after Ciid. Ciid wanaagsan kuli.

[Paragon]

Castro, Ciid wanaagsan on the coming Ciid sxb. In fact ciid wanaagsan to all on the approaching Ciid.

[Gabbal]

I would hope some do a little bit of self-reflection while they are own ciid. Future Ciid wanaagsan dhamaantiin.

[Dhubad.]

Enough xag-xagasho, Ciid wanaagsan dhamaan.

 

This topic is officially closed. Good bye until next time...!

[Rahima]

Ahura,

 

I would assume that any Muslim using the word ‘tent’ to describe the jilbaab would be a yasid, but you’re right, benefit of the doubt would be best. But when that same Muslim right after refers to it as a returning to of the Neanderthal era, then yes the tone of the previous (although the later has been recanted) is established, not to mention there is the comparison with the 'good old days'. Both these reasons lead to the conclusion about the tone.

 

That said, it is not just a material which is the point of critical remark here rather a hijab which fulfills the requirements. I’m sure our brother good xiin could extrapolate on the Islamic evidence on why it is a sin and why it is sacrilegious- I’m meant to of have left this thread and in a hurry.

 

Till next time nomads, Ciid wanaagsan .

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Koleey meeshaan quuqdeeda waa badatay. I thought it would thaw down, kadareey ee noqotay.

 

Laakiin waxa la isku heysto ilaa hada ma kasin. Dadka qaarkood ayaaba ku wareeray jilbaab iyo xijaab. Jilbaab iyo xijaab laba sheey ayee kala yihiih, at least from Soomaali perspective.

 

Culimo adduunka dhamaantood waxa waajib ah la isku raacay waa xijaab, not jilbaab. Yaala wareerin. Jilbaab wadaado isku raacday sida uu u eg yahay lama haayo ilaa maanta. Waa taas reer Afganistaan "burqa" ugu waco oo different design; waa taas reer Khaliijka "abbaayo" ugu waco oo sidoo kale ka gadisan; waa taas reer Iiraan "jadoor" ee dhahaan.

 

All these jilbaabo ma isku si baa loo design gareeye? Waa maya. Teeda kalena jilbaab hadaa qaadaneysid, it should have been colourless, mostly black. Kee Soomaalida gishtaana kalarkiis ayaa indhaha kaa qabanaayo. Taloow ma oga since most of our people, indeed our sisters, aren't dadka wax aqriyo, but ku xiran "hebel baa yiri." If only a small percentage had had read what Sacuudi-trained Sheekhyada ee ka dhageystaan, wee ogaan lahayeen that some of their qudbooyin are narrowly interpreted to suit their agenda. Alas, they took advantage our people's traditonal "i maqalsii" culture.

 

Soomaalida had their own "version" before the war. That version was garbasaar. It fullfilled what was needed from xijaab. Wadaadii waagaas jirayna ku raacay, not the later-day, seefta banaanka, Sacuudi-trained ones.

 

Is garbasaar not xijaab? Does it not fullfill xijaab's requirement?

 

Seef laboodnimada iyo seefta banaanka ma fiicno. Hala iska ilaaliyo. Wixii fundamentalka Diinta ka baxsan, mabda' ayaa jiro, oo waala is qilaafi karaa micno kuma fadhiso. Dhiibo mabda'aa, ka soco. I had this friend who used to think South Asian women's prayers aren't acceptable. Why? Because he saw them leave their toes and ankles open when they pray. The guy obviously didn't know mabda' in uu jiro, that we follow Shaafici and they follow Xanafi.

 

Dad baa leh the old regime didn't allow iskoolada iyo kuliyada kale in xijaab lagu tago. That is ridiculous. My sister used to wear "xijaab"--sifaleeti with garbasaar and no body bothered while attending Kuliyada Lafoole.

 

Now, since we are into this enforcement, let's see why a six or five year-olds are forced to wear this jilbaabs at school? Why? Do they have a choice? No. I was in Xamar, and I had seen my nieces wearing it. I inquired why ee u qabaan. They said it is school uniform policy, and they have no choice. Dhididka ka socday Eebbe baa og, and wouldn't wanted to wear had they had a chose. Yes, talk about choosing, as some here are saying those who wear it by choice. Yeah. Talk about compulsion and enforcement. Officials at some schools cannot even tolerate a certain hair-cut styles, expelling those who cut their hair like "Westerners."

 

Al Itixaad didn't work in Soomaaliya. We all know why. Their intolerance was intolerable. In early to mid '90s, they controlled the small town of Luuq. Initially they were welcomed, but their continued rigidity was the last nerve that got on Soomaalis, who are inherently anarchist republic, that lived in that small town. They even welcomed the Itoobiyans who kicked the Al Itixaads.

 

It didn't either work in Bari.

 

Maanta ayeeyooyinkeena ayaa loo giliye, oo loogu sheekeye "xijaabka kaliya la aqbalaayo inuu yahay jilbaab." Ayeeyooyinkeena baariga iska eh iska qaatay.

 

Jilbaab is just one version of xijaab, not synonymous with xijaab. Garbasaar, as it covers what is required, is one version of xijaab.

 

Dadka qaarkood waxaaba u maleysaa hadalkooda siduu u eg yahay in xataa diinteena suuban soo baxday wixii ka dambeeye 1991. Eebboow na cafi.

 

Waaka baxay.