Somalia in 1978 - Pics

[Medley of extemporanea]

I'm for choice but there is

no

choice in Sharia law. You know that, right? Everyone must don the Hijab whether they agree or not.

Is that true? There is no choice under Sharia law to wear the hijab for a women? That she has to wear it even if she doesn’t agree to that?

 

I understand that it's commandment in a religious sense (like Salah) , but what is its place in civil law ?

 

This is a serious question and I would appreciate serious answers only.

 

And please, no SOL'er opinions, just fact that can be support with proof from a Islamic source since this is an Islamic issue.

 

Thanks.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Curling Waterfall:

Will the real jilbaab please stand out?

CW, I can't believe that image you posted. An image of a green hill and one of a fiery hell? Where is it from? Here's a rough translation of what the list says (for those who don't read Arabic):

 

Conditions of the Hijab:

 

1) It must cover the entire body including the hands and the face (According to those of knowledge)

 

2) It must be loose and not tight so as not to describe a woman's body [not show curvature].

 

3) It must be thick [not see-through] to not show what's underneath.

 

4) The material must not itself be ornamented.

 

5) It must not have any perfume smell.

 

6) It must not resemeble men's clothing

 

7) It must not resemble the infidel clothing.

 

8) It must not be a dress of celebrity [i'm not sure what this means, it may be a reference to brand-name clothing].

 

Though the caption between the two images (of heaven and hell) reads: "choose for yourself", I'm not sure what choice is available to anyone who would face such posters in public places. Be that as it may, for those who willingly choose the dress on the right (the one leading to heaven), our support is necessary.

 

Finally, the caption at the bottom is a "special" message for men that reads:

 

O man, do not be a "dayuus" [probably meaning cross-dresser or homo]. If you're not a man, dress like one.

 

Ah, these Saudis, they crack me up walaahi. That image on the right (the one of Darth Vader) is a tough way to go through life. No way Islam would condone that rubbish. The religion is ease, not dis-ease.

[Gabbal]

I am not surprised. Dad badan oo awalba waxa ay u taaganyahiin daciif iska ahaa, duufaantaa iska qaadan. Dad awalbo diintooda aqoon, hal hadiithne aqrin karin yaa la leeyahay jaamacadaha galbeedka intaad gashaan "philosophy" iyo coorsooyin la mid ah qaata. Diintooda hadayan waxba ka aqoon maxay ka jawaabi macalinka haduu istaago yidhaahdo "how do you know there is a god" or"proof the existence of god"? Acudi bilaah, o maysan ogo inuu ilaahay ka sareeyo human logic? Xash-lilaah dad badan way u dumi (oo dumeen), waana lagu qasaari (oo lagu qasaaray). Kuwaas awalbo iimaanka la'een yaa meelahaanoo kale hadana noo fadhiisanaya. Tii tan ka danbaysaa u taal, aqiira ilaahii ku abuurtay iska difaac! Munaafaqiinka wax baa u taal.

[-Serenity-]

^ Adigu maxaad dadka ugu dhaga hadleysa? Ever since your comeback as Kashanre, you’ve been making that little bit extra effort to confound what people write to what you wish they wrote, and come off as high-n-mighty. Give it a rest dude. Its not worth it (whatever u r hoping to achieve by doing so). :rolleyes:

 

Castro, yeah... gotta love them Sauds . Too bad some Somalis think of them as their gate-way to heaven.

[Gabbal]

^Confound them? CW, walaal why should it confound them if they are very sure of themselves? I am saddened by the opinions displayed here and angered against them. Hypocrites (the max) and weak Muslims (the min) are a cancer to our society and the whole Islamic religion. This time and age is very well depicted in the Qur-aan and best believe I do understand these kinds of views will only get worse and more divisive before their culmination in the Day. The only thing worse to come is Dajaal, and with the views voiced, I have no doubt he is not that far behind.

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

Hypocrites (the max) and weak Muslims (the min) are a cancer to our society and the whole Islamic religion.

I can clearly read waxaad qoreysid dear. Like I said, dadkaad ku dhaga hadleysid jooji. Really, come out and address the people you want to address. Or better yet, stop with the insidious labeling (that’s a cowards way) and address the points you see as sad and against. Enlighten us if u will...

[Castro]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

Blah blah blah Hypocrites ... blah blah blah the

Day

blah blah blah

Dajaal

.

حتى انت يا خشانرى؟

[xiinfaniin]

Kashanrow, adeer waxaad uga hartaa; aduunyoy xaalkaa ba’a. I did not know that many people harbor such animosity against the application of the Hijaab verse. What gives?

 

والديوث الذي يقر الخبث ÙÙŠ أهله

Meaning of duyuus is he who approvesaccepts when his family violates Allaah’s laws. Example of duyuus would be a man who sees no problem with his non-hijaabi wife or non-praying son. Meel fog ha u doonin, adeer.

 

Those who mock how others apply allah’s laws have different names. And there are plenty of them in SOL, even more than I initially thought. Going in circles will not be much of a help.

 

Bellesed and Rahima, this type of Hijaab that Somalis wear was designed by Somalis in Seventies, with consultation with late imam Albaani.

 

Edit: CW, how bizarre!

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Haniif:

quote:

I'm for choice but there is

no

choice in Sharia law. You know that, right? Everyone must don the Hijab whether they agree or not.

Is that true? There is no choice under Sharia law to wear the hijab for a women? That she has to wear it even if she doesn’t agree to that?

Yes and to the best of my knowledge even non-muslims (Christians, jews etc) have to wear them. Interesting, isn't it? It's touted by its ardent supporters as fulfilling Allah's will (which I don't buy mostly BTW, especially from men) but nonmuslim women must wear it too.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Castro:

Paragon, not even. The tent is as ugly as it is foreign. However, it is a choice for some (or all, who knows?). Protesting that it is fashion faux pas is weak (and misplaced). Is it used as a tool of oppression? Sure. How widespread is that oppression? I don't know. Do those who wear it (by choice) deserve my support? Yes.

Castro, let me see if I understood you. You are saying that: 1- Jilbaab is 'as ugly as it is foreign'. Granted that I agree with you that the version of Jilbaab which some Somalis prefer is ugly. Then it logically follows that if two items -one ugly and one beautiful- are placed side by side, and one is encouraged to choose one, the natural human preference would be the beautiful. That if the opposite occurs, then, there must be something wrong with the choser of the ugly item over the beautiful. If, however, nothing is wrong with the choser, there must be an external factor, most likely some sort of pressure (force) explaining why one has chosen the ugly item over the beautiful item. Therefore, free choice has no role to play in why, dispite 'it's ugliness and foreigness', many women still prefer wearing it.

 

Now, moving on to your next point, you more or less allude to existence of 'choice'(maybe guided choice) by asserting that the wearing of the Jilbaab: 2- 'is a choice for some (or all, who knows?)'. Okey. So some women chose to wear the ugly tent out of their own free will. This choice conflicts with the natural preference of humans for the beautiful over the ugly. It does so in that some of the women who wear the Jilbaab are perfectly normal, or as you also agree, exercise their personal choice. But in your 3rd point, you ask yourself the question whether this chosen tent is: 3- 'used as a tool of oppression', to which you've replied 'Sure'. My question is: how can something that came about as a result of choice (see your second point) be used as a 'tool of oppression'?

 

If you want to proof that Jilbaab is used as a tool of oppression, you must first locate where this 'oppressive' authority exists. This is what I asked you before.

[Gabbal]

CW, what you led me to believe and what you actually have in mind are two different things. You want a formal war to be declared miyaa (seeing as declaring names is tantamaunt to declaring war)? I honestly do not have one person in mind, because I have managed to add all the people I have taken a disliking to and combined them into a single person. Socod Badne, Gram, and Castro (among others) I have taken the greatest disliking to and was clearly addressing.

 

p.s. Rahima, I am in no way, shape, or form trying to complicate your job in this section.

[Gabbal]

Kashanrow, adeer waxaad uga hartaa; aduunyoy xaalkaa ba’a. I did not know that many people harbor such animosity against the application of the Hijaab verse. What gives?

That is but the icing on the cake; even after it has clearly been showin that it is a choice they are still adamently opposed to it in the name of "freedom", ma wax kalay ka hari? My suspicion is some are agnostic, clearly it shows and Allah (SWT) will have the final judgement of them...

 

Je vraiment plains des Somaliens et qu'ils sont devenus.

[-Serenity-]

I take it no answer is forthcoming. Well Kashanre, I don’t want a war of words… not on diinta anyway. However, I don’t like in laygu dhaga hadlo (which I feel you and Xiin are doing). I also don’t like clustering in an attempt to blanket all discussion … i.e. connect invisible dots (ala Femme style).

 

We really have two choices:

 

1) Discuss the subject civilly with no name-calling (hypocrites, munaafiqs, weak muslims, agnostics... SubxanAllah.. you dont even see the error of your ways and you talk like you're for the religion) and labeling and hope to come to an understanding.

2) Continue howling in the wind and beating that righteous-horse.

[sheherazade]

Kash, it'll be difficult for u to debate if u take a dislike to everybody u disagree with.

 

Xiin, who are these many people who harbour animosity towards the verses? Or how many even? U see mountains where I see mole hills.

[Faarax-Brawn]

You're futzing around despite a plea not to. It is simple question really. If a muslim girl in SHARIA run country (I understand wearing the hijab is voluntary everywhere else), refuses the Hijab for whatever reason, what do you suggest be done with her? I know you don't have authoritative answer, maybe not know the ins and outs of Sharia law and any answer you give will be speculative and based on your opinion. That is fine. Go ahead and speculate, opine. That is what opinions forums like this one are for. So, will the recalcitrant girl be jailed, fined or beaten?

Dude; futzing or not, you have a predilection of being redundant and persistent on hipothetical scenarios. Unfortunatly,i am afraid no ammount of personal opinion will make sense(to you) or pass thru your opaque Feable Homer Mind. I dont even know why am replying to your kooky questions. But oh well.

 

What you call opinion is really commonsense sir. If its ok to obey the commonlaw in Ottawa,why then would it be different from the laws passed in say Qabridahare?.If any particular community decides to enact its rules[Really;wether its democratic,socialistic or communistic or sharia ],the laws passed MUST be OBEYED.Period. We can urgue about its ills,wrongs and its imperfections,but thats not the argument here. Whats so hard about that?

 

 

Keep in mind, the bone of contention here for me is not if the Hijab is Islamic obligation or not. That is moot point but hither and thither. I don't have a problem with any muslim girl who wants to wear Hijab out of her own will. It is her God given right. It is the forceful imposition of universal dress code for one sex who, for eminently self-evidence reasons obvious to all, don't all share a unison view on proper Islamic apparel.

Another feckless,repetitive and uncorroborated message. How can it be forceful imposition if it becomes a LAW? I think that is what you need to understand. I will say it again. Laws are there to be enforced[Pay close attention to this WORD,really please]. IF any COUNTRY decides to pass a LAW[Either by a vote from its population or representatives] Naturally,any one who breaks it shall be punished.

 

Sharia Law or not,The issue here is not wether its morally unjust,or inhumane or undemocratic or whathaveyou;[All mind you the words used by the Kafir]Its a matter of OBEYING a particular area's Laws. You BREAK em,you get charged.[Wether you LIKE it or NOT] Period.