Somalia in 1978 - Pics

[Allamagan]

To those of you making mockery of our Deen, I just

want you to have a moment of reflective silence

over the meaning of the translation of below aayah:

------------

Allah mocks at them and gives them increase in

their wrong-doing to wander blindly

(2:15)

----------------

So making mockery of Allahs Deen and the muslims are

infact a serious business. Markaa dadoow taa ha la

ogaado!

 

 

am

[Rahima]

So far, true. But not likely when Rahima and Sharia people come the law. She, Rahima, is on record saying she's for Sharia and would have no qualms in foisting her choice for dress on ALL Somali girls. This is a view shared by most Sharia people.

Although I can’t ever remember saying that, you’re spot on. I cannot be a Muslim and be against the Shariica. I also believe that all citizens should respect the laws of the land, which they reside in. If it so happened that for example Somalia was governed by the Shariica law and one of its laws was that all Muslim women must wear the hijaab (how is irrelevant, just that it fulfills the requirements), then yes I believe that all Muslim must wear the hijaab. Here in Australia for example, it is illegal to go about in your birthday suit. Whilst we can technically argue that it is a person’s choice how they wish to go about their business, this is against the law and any person violating this law should receive the appropriate punishment. The Shariica for the average person is the same, it is a system of governance, for the Muslim however it deserves far more respect than you are willing to give it (even if we accept that you are giving any at all).

 

To Rahima: atheer, I reject your argument that the tent (what you mistakenly refer to as the hijab) was knowledge Somalis lacked prior to 1990. What you're saying, basically, is that for the centuries that Somalis were muslim, they were ignorant of Islam and they, conveniently, and rapidly, acquired this knowledge in the past 15 years? Do you see the flaw in your argument atheer?

Castro, what Somalis (generalizing of course) pre-1990 considered the hijab was not the proper hijab. The thin Somali garbasar or malkhabad just covering the hair with the neck and chest exposed were considered hijab. We all know that neither fulfills the conditions of hijab. Let me give you an example- my mother in the year 1981 was studying at Lafoole. At that time, she wasn’t overly religious, but she was somewhat interested in the religion. She used to wear to uni, a thin garbasaar- mind you we have photos. To make the story short, my mother along with a few other female students was thrown out of the uni after a crackdown on the ‘wadaado’ (and although she was not one, she was seen as wearing a symbol belonging to them). It took her two years to get back. Now you tell me that that is not a lack of knowledge. Muslims in a Muslim country were been punished for following their religion. Can you imagine that happening now in Somalia? I think not adeer. Somalis in many ways are more screwed up now than pre-1990, but one thing they have generally gotten right is the hijaab- you don't have to like it, but it fulfills the requirements of hijab.

 

As for the word ‘tent’ brother it is said in a tone of yassid, a put down when in fact people have a choice to adorn it. They are not breaking any of the Islamic requirements for the hijab, so how is it that any Muslim can refer to it in a terminology, which is a form degradation? Putting all aside Castro, what have those Muslim sisters done wrong for you and a few others to refer to their choice of hijab (because it is a type of hijab) as a ‘tent’, a word of put down (as it appears)? For another Muslimah to say I don’t like the style of that particular hijab, then that is a personal preference, but to put down the choice of others, especially when that action is a form of worship to Allah is just wrong. To say it as a form of yasid is sacrilegious. Please do correct me, perhaps you just meant it as a description and was not attacking it in a form of put down.

 

That said, I also don’t see how this is any different than the gaalo calling our hijabs a napkin. Do you know how that feels :confused: ? Sure it might look like a napkin (a square piece of material), but they by calling it a ‘napkin’ are using it as a put down, degradation. Similarly, by the simple fact of the way you used the word ‘tent’ it seems that you meant it as a put down. Like I said you don’t have to like that style per se, but you mustn’t ever put down the rightful choice of sisters who are obeying their Lord.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Rahima:

Castro, what Somalis (generalizing of course) pre-1990 considered the hijab was not the proper hijab. The thin Somali garbasar or malkhabad just covering the hair with the neck and chest exposed were considered hijab.

That wasn't the 'hijab' back then and you know better than to call it that. The malkhabad was not an outdoor apparel but an indoor one. And is this the sum of your response to how Somalis understood and practiced Islam for centuries prior to the civil war? Is it not more than just coincidence that a failure, at every level, of this society after 1990 has more to do with the tent than any new or elightened understanding of Islam? Is this not an irrational response to trauma? Are women not being made to bear an inordinate share of the blame for the sins of a nation? When all else fails, wrap up the women for they are the ones who wreak all havoc. What really gets me is how some view this as a choice.

 

We all know that neither fulfills the conditions of hijab.

The issue is not whether a garbasar or malkhabad fulfill the conditions of hijaab but rather if the so-called tent is a foreign and sledge-hammer solution to swatting a fly, so to speak. The tent is a symbol, among others, that show a society that is regressing into gender inequality and oppression.

 

Let me give you an example- my mother in the year 1981 was studying at Lafoole.

A heartfelt anecdote, atheer, still one with no relation to the issue at hand. A red herring, if you will. All that it shows is the brutality of a regime fearful of any ideology that could rise up against it and topple it.

 

Somalis in many ways are more screwed up now than pre-1990, but one thing they have generally gotten right is the hijaab- you don't have to like it, but it fulfills the requirements of hijab.

Atheer there is no like or dislike of religious requirements. Now, you still maintain the tent fulfills a religious requirement when you've failed to show how it is the only one that does so. What makes it the preferred solution to hijab requirements? And why is it not adopted by the majority of Muslims on earth (except in societies where oppression of women is rampant)?

 

As for the word ‘tent’ brother it is said in a tone of yassid, a put down when in fact people have a choice to adorn it.

Atheer when you understand it's not a tenet of Islam (the tent and wearing it, that is) you will see that any mockery, even rebuke, is appropriate for it then boils down to an impractical and poor sense of fashion. Islam is beyond mockery, Muslims aren't. And Muslims who do things in the name of Islam without understanding how this is Islamic are inviting more than just mockery.

 

Somali women can wear tents and even wrap themselves in tape as a mummy. It is freedom they have that no one can take away. Unfortunately, few realize that the tent is the antithesis of freedom and equality that Islam so honorably advocates.

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

Ahura, I'll try this one more time.

 

#1:"No one's born wearing it" = True.

 

#2:"and no one will be buried in it." = True

 

#3:"Making fun of it isn't a great thing" = True

 

#4:"but it's not exactly sacrilegious either" = False

 

3 outa 4. That's a C+. Not bad.

 

Not banging any drums here. Just pointing out the obvious. Making fun of Islamic rituals = very very very very naughty. and so totally uncool.

Kashafa, maybe you think you are teaching at primary school level. You're not (and if you were, I dare say you would make a more than terrible teacher; C+? As if!).

 

I shouldn't need to explain something as basic as the following, but I shall anyway. What makes a random piece of cloth a Hijab is: 1)The intention behind the wearing of the garment and 2) the fact that it's a duty (with specific requirements). Now, if my dear Scottish friend, Colleen, were to wear a scarf/jilbaab because she likes the look of it, it wouldn't make her a muslim and neither would it make her scarf/jilbaab a hijab. But on a Muslim girl, it becomes a Hijab because of the intention behind it (i.e. she is fufilling a religious duty - Note the word Duty as opposed to a 'ritual'...u can look up the difference in any dictionary).

 

Are you following? Good. Now, no one is mocking the HIJAB, but the styles are open to question. The jilbaab is a funny creation, because it does resemble a tent (especially the long ones). Now, that's not an insult to the woman wearing it or an aspersion on the jilbaab's ability to function as a proper Hijab (which it does, more than proper actually). It's just a fact, and there's nothing sacrilegious about stating it. Anything can be used as a form of Hijab, including a beach towel, if one so desires. The woman wearing it would look decidedly comical and it would probably make people laugh, but that won't stop it from doing its job, will it now? Sacrilegious indeed.

 

Khayr:

Ahura,

you're very foolish to give one of the Village People aka Castro, weight to his comment.

Dee adigu maalinba maalinta ka dambeysa waad ka sii dartaa ma istidhi? Caqli-xumadii ayaad ku sii darsatay dhaqan-xumo iyo af-xumo dheeraada miyaa? Labo laga yaabaa in loo dulqaadan karo laakiin saddexdu waa xad dhaaf. Kolay uma maleynayo in khafiif kale kuu hadhsanyahay, laakiin waxaan kuugu talinlahaa inaad meeshan iskaga carartid, waayo xad kaad mareyso waxaa kuu hadhay inaad dharka dhigtid uun. Mark my words baan idhi.

 

 

You boys really need to buy some logic, and if that proves too expensive, some common sense would do as well. :rolleyes:

[xiinfaniin]

War illeen ibtilo, war dadkan maxaa jalbaabka laga siiya?

 

Simply put, badownimo + afxumo = jiq. Bal adigu dhan u dhaqaaji !

 

But let me quote FF once more: The 'tent' is here to stay, deal with it, if you can't, tough luck brah..

 

Enough.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

War illeen ibtilo, war dadkan maxaa jalbaabka laga siiya?

 

Simply put, badownimo + afxumo = jiq. Bal adigu dhan u dhaqaaji

!

 

But let me quote

FF once more:

The 'tent' is here to stay, deal with it, if you can't, tough luck brah.

.

 

Enough.

See kaa noqotay?---->> The tent is a foreign dress code nooh imposed by a foreign religion(i guess).

 

Sanad Wanagsan folks

[xiinfaniin]

^^

You forgot to add that it represents the threat of this century .

 

Sanad wacan oo wanaagsan saaxiib.

[makalajabti]

I am a girl and I am against this bloody Hijab.

Every little somalia girl as young as 4 is forced to wear a mini-tent.

Let's be honnest about this, parents pressure girl to wear. We all know that so let's not beat around the bush, those girls did not choose to wear it, they are obliged.

We can be muslim and be against it because it shouldn't be a priority in the deen it's just clothes which are ugly buy the way.

Somali parents think that in that way, their daughters will not fall into "vice", ah ah!

[Kashafa]

"Hi, I am a boy. I am against wearing clothes. My parents have made me wear clothes as long as I can remember. They think by wearing clothes, I will be 'virtuous' and not fall into 'vice'. Silly old farts. We can be Muslim and not wear any clothes, after all, people used to make Tawaaf around the Ka'ba in the nude(historical fact). Clothes really aren't a priority because it's what's inside that counts. Some of the best Muslims in the world are Nudists. On second thought, that last line sounds absurd, so strike that off the record. My point being: Clothes are an archiac throwback to the days when cavemen first wore animal hide. We Muslims can do better."

 

 

^^ That's what you sound like in your lil' anti-Hijab rant, Kitty-Kat.

[Modesty]

I do agree that many girls in Somalia wear the hijab because they see it as "cultural", and they are afraid to transgress against the norm by wearing.I was once told by a somali man that if I don't wear the big burka the somalis mostly wear, that I would not be covered, even though i was wearing a long abaya with khimar..it was not tight fitting, it was not transparent, it was not colorful as to make it attractive...I was shocked and I told him to go tell someone who would listen to him.

 

However, for the individuals who are saying the jilbab is unattractive and shouldn't be worn, that is just wrong. People who are covered are seen as ackward, yet a woman in a bikini is seen as normal...and a woman wear a one piece bathing suit is seen as modest. The world is going nutty.

[Blessed]

Makalajabti

Don't exaggerate walaalo. It's un-artistic.

 

Castro,

What are you on Atheer?

You seem to have an image of Somali women as being weak (as if). Your last piece and socod badnes had me loling.

 

It might be a surprise but those girls (most)do it out of love for Allah as they see that style to be correct form of hijaab (just like those who cover their face).

 

If you have Quranic or hadith text stating otherwise, share it. Hadii kale, leave it.

The different forms of hijaab reflect the cultures of Muslims, it shows the flexibility of the sharia as regards hijab.

 

Anti-'tent' sentiments are same as the anti-abaaya or khimaar sentiments some are complaining of. We could do with tolerance and acceptence of peoples choices. But, I've been told Somalis don't have those virtues.

 

Rahima,

A friend of mine once told me that the Somali style jilbaab is recommended by some scholares because your not allowed to show the parting between the arms (like with the surwaal). Have you heard this, do you know the source. Sorry to put you on the spot darling.. just have a feeling you'd know

[Pi]

LoooL@ parting between arms. War anagaa balaayo aragnay. Is it suppose to be an 'Awrah, the "parting" between the arms that is. Lemme guess, it could a source of great societal strife (religous folks call it "Fitnah"). How could a man possibly restrain himself when he lays eyes on that heavenly division of flesh and bones.

 

Anyhow, I doubt this is a hadith, it just sounds too silly. However, if it is an "authentic" hadith, then I'll shut my cakehole.

 

Seriously, why don't they devise huge, human-size carton boxes especially made for females with minute holes for air circulation, and a not-so-revealing opening of the eyes. This way even the movement of the body will not be visible, only a moving box. Would'nt this make them that much more modest?

 

I think alot of members already made it abudnantly clear that they are not riduculing, mocking, or belittling the concept of the Hijab itself, rather they find certain variations of it "comical", "oppressing", "unnecessary". I agree.

 

Men and Women are told to dress modestly in Islam. However, I think some go the extra mile, and, subsequently, they miss the whole the point. People do strange things when they forget the main object of their actions.

 

I think Ahura said something to the effect of it being necessary that we distinguish the Hijab itself and the various styles of wearing it. Honestly, are you telling me that you would not be desparately trying to hold back your thunderous laughter if you saw a Muslimah robed in a Beach Towel, or wrapped in toilet paper as Castro said, or what if she was enclosed in a good 'ole humungous carton box.

 

I'd probably try not to laugh, but it would be to no avail. I would turn red or blue due to insufficient oxygen circulation.

 

Now, is this just a hyberbole or is there some similiarity amongst the tent-wearing, beach-towel-dressing, box-hiding, toilet-paper attiring styles? Can we be modest and not preposterously humorous at the same time. Why is there always an "either/or" ultimatum. I don't think there should be a dichomoty at all.

 

Ok. Maybe this is really a subjective thing. I might find the idea of a moving tent somewhat humorous and unnecessary, but others might find it as a sign of absolute beauty. There is no accounting for taste, indeed. For that reason, I will not publicly riducule the tent-wearers. Afterall, their intention is, one would hope, a religous one.

 

P.S. I have a question for the more knowledgeable Nomads of this thread in religon, particularly: Khayr, Xiinfaniin, Rahima , or anyone else. What is the history or the story behind this particular Jalbaab (the tent-looking one) in Islam. Were muslim women donning this particular style since time immemorial?

 

Hit me with a hadith, slap me with a verse, or just pull-out the formidable Fatzooka (the islamic juridical Bazooka). I promise, I will not retaliate.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Blessed:

Castro,

What are you on Atheer?

You seem to have an image of Somali women as being weak (as if). Your last piece and socod badnes had me loling.

Glad to provide some comic relief for you, atheer. I'd appreciate it if you could tell which phrase or paragraph you found particularly amusing. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that I have "an image of Somali women being weak"? It's now the second time I read this about me and I'm curious which vibe I'm giving out that would send this message. That would be great, atheer.

 

P.S. I'm drug-free atheer.

[Pi]

Castro: Hey, do you know what the W-Man said when he was accused of being drunk. Winston Churchill was once accused of being under the influence while he was answering a question at the House of Commons. The Lady said something along the lines of " You, Sir, are drunk ", to which he replied: " And, you Madame, are ugly. But I shall be sober in the morning". I am not sure if he was actually drunk, but that reply discourged the woman from every accusing him of impaired judgement.

[Castro]

^ Blessed was speaking in hyperboles, I hope. She couldn't possibly find what I wrote that intoxicating.