UN HIV Map

[SeeKer]

Originally posted by ElPunto:

there would be little need in Muslim countries for the whole ABC program -

if

most people adhered to the tenets of their religion.

Perfectly cut and dry eh? If you follow your religion you will be fine? Unfortunately that is not what people see in ground zero. I am going to narrow my focus on Somalis but whatever I say applies to many groups of people. Somalis in the West do not practice safe sex nor do they adhere to most of the tenets of their faith. A man/woman will have multiple partners before settling down and might settle down with someone who has done all they can to adhere to their religious tenets. One will infect the innocent one inadvertently without realizing they are themselves infected. That is one scenario.

 

Last time I was in Eastleigh I noticed a few women in black burqa/buibui milling about hotel lobbies or outside of hotels. They were soliciting for sex and guess who they were? Young somali girls that older somali men take advantage of. So you tell me if its realistic to expect religion to be an answer. The world is getting smaller and smaller with globalization. There is no way that we can discount the adoption of other behaviors and cultures.

 

Even our religion preaches precautions, Tie your camel and place your trust in Allah" - Tirmidhi. If we take the necessary steps now, and by that I mean educating not flogging, we can nip this thing in the bud. HIV/AIDS epidemic run rampart in the West because for years they discounted the virus and labeled it as a homosexual disease. Lets take that as a lesson to get moving on this issue whether you feel it doesn't apply to you or not.

[Maaddeey]

^He's saying If Muslims adhere to their religion..., and you question that and come back and give example of Somalis in the west who don't adhere to their religion!.

[SeeKer]

Maaddeey, may I suggest you reread the entire reply.

 

Bisinka I clearly stated that adherence to the religion isn't happening, so what next? Are you going to enforce the adherence miyaa?

[ElPunto]

"If you follow your religion you will be fine?"

 

On an agregate basis - yes. Why do you think Botswana has a much higher rate of HIV than Yemen which is a much poorer country according the World Bank? Are Yemenis more educated, have better health care etc? No. Why does Somalia have a lower HIV rate than Kenya? Kenya is more developed, richer, stable etc etc.

 

Does this mean Muslim countries should not worry or take precautions? No of course not. But the ABC program is designed for countries with generalized epidemics - defined as an HIV rate of 1% or more to contain the increase in the HIV rate and then stablize and hopefully decrease it. I don't see the need for this sort of program in Somalia.

 

I don't oppose the availablity of condoms but I think that is just not a realistic thing for vulnerable people. Do you believe that the young ladies selling themselves in hotels are really going to benefit from a condom prgram - when the power relationship is so skewed toward the john? Can they afford to insist on the use of a condom? No. It doesn't help these folks. I'd rather see folks try to address the root causes in this case rather than simply handing out condoms.

 

Edit - I think where there isn't adherence - to simply hand out condoms is not the proper Islamic way. One also needs to appeal to people's better natures.

[Maaddeey]

^I reread it and found this:

Perfectly cut and dry eh? If you follow your religion you will be fine? Unfortunately that is not what people see in ground zero.

So you tell me if its realistic to expect religion to be an answer.

every one knows adherence to the religion is not happening.

 

If you agree with Elpunto, what is the point of your post?

[SeeKer]

El, If you reread my comment on the ABC program I mentioned it only because KP said that NGOs don't preach Abstinence when they actually do.

 

Originally posted by ElPunto:

Does this mean Muslim countries should not worry or take precautions? No of course not.

Great, we are in agreement.

 

I'd rather see folks try to address the root causes in this case rather than simply handing out condoms.

Absolutely and I would solely wish it to be a frank discussion that is informative as opposed to bombast.

 

 

As for passing out condoms I have mixed feelings when it comes to that. My personal beliefs are against it but when I look at the numbers I feel disheartened. It would be beneficial to come up with a multi pronged approach.

 

M, if you want to argue for the sake of argument, be my guest sxb

[ElPunto]

^Understood.

[Allamagan]

SeaKer,

Somalis in the West do not practice

safe sex

nor do they adhere to most of the tenets of their faith.

How do you come up to this? Any source?

A man/woman will have multiple partners before settling down and might settle down with someone who has done all they can to adhere to their religious tenets. One will infect the innocent one inadvertently without realizing they are themselves infected. That is one scenario.

That was exactaly the same scenario I was referring to [see page 1] when you said to me and I qoute: "Ultimately it is up to individuals to protect themselves" Of course you right but I took it as disagreement to what I've said and you too saying now the same thing.

 

Last time I was in Eastleigh I noticed a few women in black burqa/buibui milling about hotel lobbies or outside of hotels. They were soliciting for sex and guess who they were? Young somali girls that older somali men take advantage of.

The fact that you see ppl wearing burqa or shuko or those sporting gardheer doesn't necessarily mean they do adhere 100% to the tenets of their religion. You know and I know these bad women use this burqa to conceal their true identity. Of course, by seing these burqa wearing 'escort girls' actually can bring discredit on those true sister in Islam doing their best to adhere to teaching of their faith or ppl think they all same coz they dress same and look same plus doing these evil & dodgy things. For the most of people these religion sympols like burqa, hijab, garka-dheer, koofida are all sacred things and ppl ought to respect it meel xuna lala istaagin. I remeber, I once saw [back in da ol dayz] in a nightclub this somali hijabi chick wallaahi I was saddened by it just because seeing this good sympol of muslim faith in this shidh place wan naxay ..war hedhe tani waalan maxay ahayd ayan is iri

[SeeKer]

^I wish there was a study I would cite but I am going off the number of cases of STDs that have been on the increase when it comes to Somalis in MN. I think there is a wonderful lady working on an awareness campaign and perhaps then there will be a drive in finding statistics and studying the population.

 

As for burqa/hijabis being seen in places condemned by religion. I am guilty of such acts. I used to be DD for my friends during UNI years and I used to sit at the bar while they got smashed Being young you don't think of the consequences of your actions and you wish to be regarded as one of the gang. Men can hang out with their friends and club/drink and its ok but once a hijabi girl walks in and doesn't even touch an ounce of liquor but is just talking with friends its seen as she is disrespecting her religion :eek:

 

So, where do you draw the line? Who is in the wrong and who is in the right? The one who wears their religion on their sleeve or the one who hides their religion and assimilates into the society like a chameleon? seeing as they both are in a place condemned by religion.

 

Ps:- SeaKer I believe is type of boat or kayak