***Motive; the London bombing****

[Final_Say]

with many theories going around, the issue of "motive"; who benefits (cui bono) from the bombing of innocent people in a London subway has been largely ignored;

if we just use what the even of 9/11 did for BUsh as an example, it can be seen that For Bush, of course, 9-11 proved to be the catalyst for overturning long-held constitutional precedents, enacting regressive legislation (Patriot Act) and initiating a global resource war. In fact, there has been no downside to the Sept 11 attacks for Bush and Co. It almost seems like the entire tragedy was simply staged to meet the stated objectives of Bush's neocon base.

 

if we use this to shed light to the london bombing, For Blair the political situation is strikingly similar to that of Bush before 9-11. He's presented a raft of regressive bills to Parliament; including more repressive anti-terror legislation and a fabulously unpopular National ID card bill analogous to those

used in dictatorships. The bombings have strengthened Blair's hand considerably; allowing him to traipse about affecting Churchillian poses and helping him pull his career out of the political ash-heap.

 

So, have the London attacks helped Blair reassert his role as leader and move forward the agenda of his paymasters?

 

It's hardly a matter for debate, however, that does not imply that Blair is directly complicit in the bombings, only that there is a clearly recognizable motive for him to do so.

 

In the case of Bush, the official version of events simply makes no sense at all. Anyone who has studied 9-11 knows that the government account is utterly false. This may explain why Bush refused to appoint an investigative commission for more than a year, and then, insisted on "hand-picking" every member on the

committee. The results proved to be the absurd

"whitewash" that many expected from the beginning.

 

while this does not prove that Bush was invovled in 9/11, it simply means that the possibilty cannot exclude, especially when Bush and Co are the only ones to have clearly gained from the attacks.

 

As a matter of fact, there is a remarkable pattern to nearly all the bombings we have seen around the world since the Bush claque took office. If we revisit the Bali bombing we can see that it allowed Bush to strengthen ties with the repressive Indonesian government; ensuring aid to the brutal military and opening channels for direct action in Aceh and other parts of the theatre.

 

Similarly, the bombings in Beirut forced US's enemy Syria to exit Lebanon, putting additional pressure on the Syrian regime.

 

Even the seemingly random bombings in Iraq have served the greater interests of the US. The administration no longer believes it can defeat the Iraqi resistance so they hope to provoke a civil war that will divert attention from the occupation. By sowing the seeds of unremitting chaos and death, the administration hopes to split Iraq up into more manageable parts. The

Balkenizing of Iraq allows the multinational

corporations to enter a safer provincial environment and precludes the likelihood that Iraq may rise again as a serious regional power.

 

In other words, the current rash of bombings has one unique characteristic; they invariably benefit the overall political goals of the US.

 

Coincidence?

 

The level of the governemental involvement can never be determine for certain, and we don't even need to know it. We know that terror serves the greater interests of the state, props up the flagging careers of inept politicians, savages civil liberties, incites violence against minorities, divides society into hostile political encampments and vindicates the war

agenda. We also know that Blair's fear mongering on the attacks has enhanced his standing with the British people and increased his ability to manipulate public opinion. This is consistent with our original thesis that that the imperial tool-chest contains only two implements; fear and deception . Blair is a master of both.

 

 

We also know that the government version of events is unadulterated fakery; a hopeless tangle of loose-ends, spurious allegations and blatant propaganda. This has left many people believing that if we looked hard enough we'd probably find that the bloody footprints from last weeks bombing lead straight to the front door at 10 Downing Street.

[Castro]

The above qualifies as a deluded left wing conspiracy theory. One that I cannot help but purchase, lock, stock and barrel.

[OG Moti]

You guys talk like the white people,, there is no motive, a bunch of kids bored to death and think they can safe muslims single handed.. and the westerns need to stop this dream we are after the terror and words that could only make things worse, Solution: stop calling all muslims terrorists and try to educate these young confused kids who think they are doing good for Islam, they are simply criminals, confused criminals and the worse and most dengrious human beings are those who are young and confused..

 

Allah kariim

 

PEace

[Final_Say]

fidel; adeer okay

 

OG_moti;

what can i say, i disagree with you; everything has a motive, even if it waz a confused little kids (though they were all older than me) then they still had something that motivates them; after all it is a big thing to decide to take your life and kill others in the process; that is just silly to say that they did not have a motivate;

 

we already know the general motive of suicide bombers is to cause damage and show their out rage, and as soon these two goals are prevented then, the motivation is lost; this is clearly illustrated by the current state of Israel and Palestine; Hamaz and the likes can no longer fully achieve their goals, the number of suicide bombing has go down dramatically; why because the end does not justify the killing of one's self;

 

in short OG u should really one your eyes, and question everything, not just believe everything you hear;

We live in a world where the Anglo-Saxon civilisation, assumes the right to unleash their military forces on anyone, but expects everyone to howl terrorism, give minutes of silence, and stand shoulder-to-shoulder, when they face retaliation.

 

As expected everyone is howling and describing it as barbaric, an act of terrorism, attack on humanity etc. because the bombs were detonated in London not in Baghdad or Kabul! Otherwise I would have expected the same response for the 54 people killed in the wedding party in Iraq and many similar incidences throughout Iraq and Afghanistan by trigger happy US pilots and soldiers.

 

so don't be confused your self, in believing and labelling this and that person;

 

If anything, the incident in London is the product of the initial aggressions in Iraq and Afghanistan; and rationally it cannot be its cause. Quite often terrorism and state terrorism depict the same cause and effect relationship; state terrorism is usually the cause, terrorism is the effect. So condemn not the bombers first (terrorism as effect), but Blair who is the cause (state terrorism as cause). I work and live in London , if I fell victim to the acts of retaliation, I would put all the blame squarely on those who have caused this retaliation.

 

Blair referred to the 'terrorists' wanting to destroy their way of life. If that is the case, then why have they chosen to attack after all this time? What is the motivation for wanting to destroy your way of life? How does it benefit them? Is Blair suggesting that they are mindless serial killers like those walking the streets of America, just looking for victims! Hence, Blair is a Bliar, by his own words!

 

If it was an act of retaliation from the Muslims, then the reasons are obvious. It is partly vengeance and partly to make the citizens of the West feel the reality of what their governments are doing in Iraq daily, so that they might get up and do something about it.

 

To exclusively condemn this atrocity in London in isolation to everything else, is to condone the real and bigger criminals. If killing innocent people is wrong and heinous for the "terrorists" then surely it is also wrong for these governments to do exactly that, in Iraq and Afghanistan to name but few. Which is worse killing innocent civilians without provocation or killing them in retaliation? Surely the former (aggression) is worse than the latter (revenge).

 

i'm not in any way saying what they did is right, clearly it is wrong in Islam and morally, however i'm just trying to point out to you, that they could not be few people who get pleasure form killing people for the fun of it' they too have motives, reasons which to them justify their actions;

[Kashafa]

Apparent Motive: To strike back at the UK for it's involvement in Iraq. Force a "Spain-like" withdrawal.

 

Will it work: Tentatively, Yes. There's only so much carnage the public can stomach. "Get out of Iraq/Bombs will stop" will become more and more appealing.

 

Justified: No

 

should have been expected: Absolutely. Tit-for-Tat. Newton's 3rd Law.

 

Will happen again: More than likely

 

Who are the bombers: Young muslims with the right intentions but wrong methods.

[Final_Say]

^^^just for speaking so much sense i rated you **5*

 

lool; hit the nail on the head;

 

peace

[Final_Say]

i don't agree that they have the right intention though;

 

i think they are rulled by emotion rather than rational thinking, and i'm not even convinced it wz muslim ppl who did it

 

 

peace

[Kashafa]

^^ Ooops. too late. can't change your mind now, you already gave me a 5/5 which is as close to perfection as you'll get

[NGONGE]

Though this be madness, yet there is method in it

 

A well thought and well presented piece. I disagree with you of course but I must concede that there is a possibility that your argument may be true. A very slim possibility mind.

 

When it comes to Islam and Muslims the conspiracy theory is our favourite pastime. I even use it with friends nowadays; whenever we’re together and someone does something out of the ordinary, we all wonder if the Mosad are behind it all! If our favourite football player feigns injury to avoid playing in a boring friendly game, we all shout sheekadan yehood ba ka dambeesa ...

 

This issue of conspiracy theories has been with us for centuries. The Jews and Christians seem to have superpowers and are always able to manipulate and exploit us without our knowledge. But, our intuition always tells us that yehood ba ka dambeesa sheekadan...and where will we be without our intuition, huh?

 

 

These stories can not be proven either way and one gets tired of them after a while. However, what one can’t ignore, is the number of disgruntled Muslims. What one can not ignore, is the number of Imams that have spent the past thirty years (and beyond) preaching about fighting the kuffars! What one can’t ignore, is the number of people who rejoiced when they thought Bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks (kindly note the way I said ‘thought’ here - all in keeping with your conspiracy theory I trust). This one is not a conspiracy theory. This one is real and present. There are Muslims out there who would blow up people in the name of Islam and under the mistaken belief that this will lead to something! I suggest that we shelve the conspiracy theories for the time being and concentrate on exposing these people and dissuading others from joining them. We can always return to speculating about conspiracy theories once we know for sure that none of this is coming from our side.

 

[Final_Say]

salam all

 

Ngonge;

 

I some what agree with you, for I know that what they are doing is not from Islam and in this particularly difficulty times, it is important to have a good and clear understanding of our religion, so that we can make those out side of Islam understand and also so that we can separate our self from actions of those who share identity with us. This does not mean that I’m gone close my eyes and completely end the blame with them, for it goes far beyond them.

 

Obviously there is nothing in the Quran that encourages terrorism. Terrorists who base their actions on Islamic law misinterpret Islam, as terrorist anti-abortionists, white supremacists, and certain militia groups misappropriate Christianity. However unlucky for us Muslims in the west many people do not differentiate between the actions of a misunderstood Muslim and the large peace loving Muslim’s.

 

Here are some of the Qur'anic verses which lay out the purpose and nature of war, which are often misused and misquoted:

 

To stop oppression: "To those against whom war is made, permission is given to fight, because they are oppressed. Verily, God is Capable of aiding them. They are those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of what is just, for no other reason than that they say, "Our Lord is God." Had God not restrained one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, temples and mosques wherein God's name if oft-mentioned would have been destroyed. God will certainly aid those who aid His cause. (Qur'an, Chapter 22:39-40). Notice the mention of all houses of worship.

 

In self-defense: "Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits by aggressing; surely God does not love transgressors." (Qur'an, Chapter 2:190.) Notice that permission is given to fight in self-defense, but not to transgress.

 

Peace is a desired state: "If they incline toward peace, then seek you peace also. And place your trust in God, for God hears and knows all things." (Qur'an, Chapter 8:61).

 

Muslim extremists get their textual interpretations by taking verses in the Qur'an out of their social-historical context, not considering the time, place, and specific circumstances in which these verses were revealed. The commonly quoted verse that follows must be understood in its proper context, namely during the struggle of the early Muslims against the specific group of Makkans who fought, persecuted and killed them first in Makkah, and then after they established a state in Medina, where early Muslims fought back for the first time. These verses can neither be used to justify killing non-Muslims, nor targeting innocent civilians.

 

" Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. But if they repent, and establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If any among them asks for asylum, grant it to him so that he may hear the word of God. Then escort him to his place of security. This is because they are without knowledge".

 

We hear many people calling for Jihad, and fighting none Muslim’s while we live and work amongst them, so it is important to understand exactly what jihad is as it is often misused and misunderstood. "Jihad" is often mistranslated as "holy war", a word that does not exist in Arabic. "Jihad" literally means "striving". The greater jihad is described as the internal struggle to avoid negative actions and cultivate good character. The lesser jihad is described as the external striving for justice, in self defence or against oppression, which is a basic human right shared by all people. One can do this in one's heart, with one's tongue or pen, and if these are ineffective, by physically trying to change an oppressive situation, either in self-defence or to defend others against aggression.

It is this last type of jihad that Muslim extremists believe they are fighting, which the media mistranslates as "holy war".

 

 

Nothing in Islam leads to terrorism or suicide bombings, nor has it ever part of the ethos of Islam's 1400 years of history and traditions. This is a modern day aberration among a few extremists who have taken terrorism as a means for fighting personal wars. Suicide is strongly prohibited in Islam because no one has the right to take away the life that God has given, except God Himself. Committing terrorist acts, which kill innocent civilians, is also prohibited, even during war, especially against women, children, old people, and religious people such as monks and nuns. Even the cutting down of trees, killing animals, and destroying infrastructure are forbidden. In Islam, one can only fight a "just war", which is fought in self-defence, not as an act of aggression and is to be between two groups of military personnel, not with civilians.

 

On this basis I agree with you, I also agree with you saying that there were some people who were extremely happy when they thought the Bin Laden was behind the Sept 11, for they saw it as a way of bringing America down and off its high horses. This pleasure was shared by many people, who are not terrorists, but who are normal Muslims, who were angered about crimes against Muslims around the world;

 

However I’m not one to close my eye and through narrow mindedness focus on this single issue of suffering Muslims and setting out to punish people; I do think that the Muslim community needs to educate their younger generation, for what usually happens, is that these terrorist recruiters target uneducated Muslim youth in university’s, work places and so, and shows them pictures and videos of Muslims sufferings, leaving the youth’s emotions to fly, during this state of emotional confusion, they manipulate the individual into believing that it is their sole responsibility to save these people, and the perpetrators of this evil is America and Britain and we have to hurt these two countries by any means we can. These young people, do not know the basic tenets of Islam, for example prayer, if you ask them a question about the religion, many of them will not be able to answer, yet they can tell you the latest news on injustice that has been committed against Muslims in that week; it is through these powerful emotions that lead them to reach this hopeless stage of believing that killing themselves and others is the only way.

 

Most of the people who ever call youngsters to Islam, are one’s with political motivations, going to universities, clubs, student bar to target Muslims who feel that they have strayed from their religion so far that there is nothing left for them, this few individuals give them a way out, a way to redeem themselves and get a ticket; heaven.

 

Sorry the post is bit long;

 

Maca salamah

 

p.s. thanks WOL for not letting me incriminate my self, and for your correction;

[NGONGE]

Don’t apologise for writing a long post. If all posts were as long and informative as this post above, SOL would be a great place to be. Alas, beggars can’t be choosers.

 

I completely agree with you there. If there is one thing that I’ll add, it will concern the type of people that join these clandestine and terrorist organisations. I appreciate that because you are living in the West, you decided to speak about Muslims in the West and their understanding of Islam (along with the Westerners themselves). I have nothing to dispute there at all. I’ll only request your permission in borrowing the fuzzy picture you’ve painted and also applying it to Muslims in the East.

 

Many there too, see the transgressions of the West and allow anger to rule their head and dictate their actions. That's why when we speak about the wrongness of such acts, we don’t do so for the benefit of Western eyes but Muslim ones. Indifference is not an option.

[Final_Say]

Oh my GOD, u actually agree on something, i see you debating on so many threads, i thought u must be a devil advocate, lool just kidding

 

i would imagine that people in the middle east join these groups, not out of lack of knowledge of Islam, as i assuming that the mosques and Madress are many, but out of emotions and misunderstanding of Islam;

by all means clear up the fuzzy picture

 

salamah

[Pucca]

this actually made sense...

[Final_Say]

Pucca when did you become a one liner sis :confused:

 

and even worst when did you star to agree with me; should i be worried

[Pucca]

Pucca when did you become a one liner sis

recently, you didn't miss much

 

and even worst when did you start to agree with me; should i be worried

i said it made sense..not "mizz i agree with you" :rolleyes: dont get in over your head now. no need to worry.