Napoleon Posted January 15, 2010 Can we start talking about thongs next? that to me seems like a more interesting topic of conversation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raamsade Posted January 15, 2010 Originally posted by Cara.: Johnny and Layzie, What if a woman wears a burkha because she believes it signifies her subjugation and inferiority relative to men? What if she thinks her body is shameful, she's unworthy, she'll go to hell if a man sees her face, and she even likes the fact that it's physically restrictive? Then her self-perception and self-worth is informed by superstition, ignorance and outright falsehood. We -- those that disagree with her -- must be allowed to show her the way to self-ennoblement without prejudice, hindrance or death threats. Originally posted by Cara.: It doesn't concern you why someone does whatever they do, as long as it's of their own freewill, and it has negligible impact on your life. I -- as a non-believer -- agree with this. Unfortunately, Muslims don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted January 15, 2010 ^^You (those who disagree) do not agree on anything, so what are you going to show her. And if after you show her, she still sticks to her way, you would still subject her to insults and call her names. Maybe you don't do death threats- at least not in the west, but otherwise you are the only smart logical humans- those that have shed the chains of religion that is. :rolleyes: Johnny I will get to you, if I can be bothered, but I'd rather work on lazy; at least me and her have some common grounds. You cannot expect me to argue with you about something that we don't even have foundation to start the argument on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuujiye Posted January 15, 2010 Errr. so if I was to drop my maxis for a bikini, khimaar for an afro wig, Yusuf Islam for the Beatles and started praising colonial powers over - I'll become an intellectual? Oki doke! Tuujiye quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Niqabkana carabta..they are both dhaqan and have nothing to do with Islam.. Qur'aanka Jalbaab ayaa lugu sheegay which means covering your self.. But even a woman takes the extra steps and covers her self more, is more imaan between her and allah... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please provide proof from Quran and Sunnah that niqaab has nothing to do with Islam!. Niqaabka is a suna not frad and you should read the quete you made of me carefuly..I said is an extra ajar for the waman if she does that but is not frad.... However this face covering meesha uu ka yimid inta aanan kuu sheegin let me just proof you what the qur'aan says about Jilbab and examples... Jilbab is a garment, a dress. Usually that type of attire which conceals the shape of a person’s body. ‘Jilbab’ is usually worn by woman that adheres to the advice Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) gave his blessed family regarding its necessity. From the ayah of the Quran we learn that women are to uphold the jilbab as a religious injunction. It also helps to ward of the stares of strangers as the shape of a dignified person. The plural of jilbab, jalabib, is found in the Qur'an, verse 33:59 (Surah Al-Ahzab). Ya ayyuha an-Nabiyy qul li azwajika wa banatika wa nisa al-mu'minin yudnina alayhinna min jalabib hinna; dhalika adna an yu'rafna fa laa yu'dhayn. Wa kana Allahu Ghafur Rahim O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their [jalabib] (Jilbabs) over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. as you could see Blessed the aayah says nothing about covering your face and like they do now..however a hadith told the story of the Niqaab and how it came to be part of the sunnah... Narrated Safiyah bint Shaibah: 'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their jalabib over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number #282)... This is a hadith that was narrated from Safiyah Bint Shaibah not the prophet (scw) but any woman who did the extra stuff to cover her self, knew she was gonna get extra rewards.... This latter on became a culture of the Arabs in the middle east and a state of fasion. The Burqa is a different case...... Blessed walaal I know your just attacking me for personal reasons but since I know you have a Xidid here in SOL, I would like to respect you for that sake so please slow down...Don't take my sense of humour for a lack of intelligents ......... Wareer Badanaa!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blessed Posted January 15, 2010 ^In the post I quoted you started off with 'it has nothing to do with Islam, now you agree it's a sunnah and not fard. The sunnah is Islamic, not Arabic culture. I don't know why you went of on a tagnet re jilbaba, that's not what is under debate in this thread. We're discussing the orgines of the Islamic niqaab which is here on this verse - note it only specifically addresses the Mothers of the Believers (RA). And when ye ask (the Prophet's wives) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Qur'an 33:53 This is the root of the Islamic niqaab not Arabic culture as you initially claimed. p.s your intelligence and my xidid sababtaad ula soo booday ii sheeg? Does it determine our views on niqaab? :confused: :confused: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuujiye Posted January 15, 2010 ^^^^ I said this before... "Burqa, dhaqan waxaa u leh afghanistanka.. Niqabkana carabta..they are both dhaqan and have nothing to do with Islam.." and the Sunnah is anything the prophet (scw) said.. and the sunnah is the rewards that he mentioned if any woman does more than just the Jilbaab to pertect her self. He never said woman should cover her face! But I made the mistake on my last post by calling a sunnah..However it was said by Aisha (rc) that woman used to do more than just covering their bodies and heads.... "Narrated Safiyah bint Shaibah: 'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their jalabib over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number #282)..." Your not into this debate because of your caring for the faith, but your in here because of a personal attack.....ilaahey bacna iguma xirin laakiin I do have a thick skin and yes I am very intelligent alhamdulilah.... I never complain to Admin but like in the past, I know you and the likes of you always end up running to the Admin and complaining about others when you guys start the fire... You came to this topic just for me so I told you before meeshaan waa noloshaada ee wax ha bilaabin... Wareer Badanaa!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blessed Posted January 15, 2010 Innaa Lillaah! All this cuqdad waa cajeeb. Hadii lagu khilaafo waa personal attack, miyaa? I've said what I needed to say on the topic, so ka rabaas, huuno! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MZanzi Posted January 15, 2010 waryaa tuujiye adiga jambal hadi lagu tuuro maiska qaadane lol walaahi LZ Girl jambal waalan eey kutuurtay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.O.R.F Posted January 15, 2010 LG, I think Ayoub and Cara (last sentence) best summed up this 'debate'. You choose to ignore what you think is detrimental to your argument (freedom of religion etc) and carry on with the secondary issue of the niqaab and whether it is required in Islam (which is irrelevant in the whole scheme of things) even though you're yet to bring anything to the table in this regard apart from questions I won't waste anymore of my time debating with you. I did try folks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cicero Posted January 15, 2010 The secular state has a vested interest not only in promoting and protecting secular ideas and values, but in inhibiting regressive religious ones. As much as I would like to impose my aesthetic predilections on my fellow humans, it is not my prerogative, nor should it be. But the problem with the Burka is not one of mere taste, rather it is one of legality and morality. One has to understand the cultural milieu from which the Burka, and other oppressive customs, arose. Islam, like all androcentric religions, has not exactly been a stalwart champion of womens rights. The lovely old book - as Khayyam would cheekily call it - is stuffed with all manner of misogyny and sexism. Where else does violence against women find divine sanction except in the lovely old book? Though in the spirit of fairness, I must admit that muslim scholars have spilled much ink over the nuances and nicieties of beating women. The lack of egalitarianism in arabic, and by extension islamic, social structures is normative. In Shariah law, a woman's rights are almost always less than that of a man; in testimony, two women are required in the place of one man; in inheritance, a woman gets half the inheritance of a man; in weregild, the blood money of a woman is half that of a man. The same inequalities plague marital customs as a muslim man is allowed to marry a non-muslim woman (Jewish or Christian), but a muslim woman cannot marry a non-muslim man. A man is allowed to marry upto four wives ; a woman does not have such rights. What has all this got to do with the ghastly Burka costume? There has always been a rich and thiriving islamic tradition wherein theocrats and mullahs strip away a woman's rights. The Burka-wearing muslim woman in th West has been hoodwinked by the religious rhetoric of such faith-heads. And I think that the secular state should use the sticks-and-carrots approach in assimilating and civilising such persons. Education and empowerment are important, but if that does not work, then the Burka must be banned from the public arena, as it nothing but a shameful political symbol of extremism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuujiye Posted January 15, 2010 FuFu duqa Jambal dhan dadka suuqa suugashay oo eray ka dhigay aan ka mid ahay lol duqa Jambal aniga qof ii tuuri karto ma jirto laakiin sababkale aa jirto.... Kaalay adiga meeshaan oo kale yaa soo gal ku dhahay horta? shaxaariyaasha dhan meeshaan hal wax maku soo qorin maxaa yeelay waxaan dhan eeba ayaga xarash u haayaan iyo is ****olkaan lool.... Blessed aniga wiligee qof iguraacsan maba aanan ku arag SOL so qilaafka hoolaheyga waaye..Cuqdad aniga iguma jirto abaayo laakiin dadka ee ku jirto wee cad yihiin.... Wareer Badanaa!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cabdow Posted January 15, 2010 I would like you to try a little experiment. Take few hours, go to your vibrant community(engage them), ask around the females why they wear the burka and come back and report it. The exchange will probably be something along the following lines: Canjeex: Habo, why do you wear the Burka? Female: Maandhow, our "deen dictates it" Canjeex: Explain? Are you saying what I think you are saying? Do you have a verse to back it up"? Female: "No, but thats what our imam told us, its a long tradition, it comes from Saudia Arabia". Canjeex: What does Saudia Arabia have anything to do with the burka, didnt you just say "Islam dictates it"? Same female joined by others: "Waryaa, naga tag, wax yahow canka jeexan, aniga ma iwaaleysid, just know, the arabs told us to do something, we follow it to the T". THE END First of all, as funny as ^^ may sound, i don't think you quite being fair to the sisters. Describing them as a bunch of Hijabi's who cover themselves not knowing why but to imitate others, and that my friend you know very well is not true and can be seen as arrogance on your part! Second of all, and fyi, i don't need to ask eedo Xaawo or Xalimo why they cover themselves for i have a mother, aunts, and sisters. Who all cover themselves, some may cover more then the others. But alas, they do it to please their lord (the Almighty) and they certainly don't need permission from you, gaal qoor gaduudan or anybody else for that matter, fahamtu? Thirdly, i don't know where you live (Afghanistan ) But, i don't know or have seen any women who wears the burka in my community! Lastly, and with all due respect eedo, bacaad cidlaad qaniinsantahay concerning this issue ee let it go Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
