I say my Qabil has fought harder for my families'

[Ebyan]

Lily;

 

Only a sick person would favour someone over another purely for clan reasons.

Okay, we're obviously talking about two different things here. When I say most Somalis are qabilist, I mean that they see themselves as part of a qabil and when push comes to shove, they'd choose their qabil. It has nothing to do with siding with or picking individuals from your qabil over individuals from another qabil purely based on their DNA. I was simply replying to the question posed in the topic: clan/tribe vs. country.

 

I wasn't trying to be condescending, but I can't believe that tribe has no influence (what-so-ever) in your life.

 

Ms D&D;

 

There's a difference between loving your tribe and hating others because of theirs.

 

At the risk of generalising, is one more qabiiliste if other clans arent mixed within his/her family? Maybe Abyan's family is from one clan.

Yes, both of parents are from the same sub-sub(..etc) clan, but what does that prove?

 

Originally posted by Jimcaale:

 

Historically, laga yaabo inuu qabiilka dadka wax tari jiray but since the civil war, it did more damage to Somali individuals. Thousands of innocents were simply targeted for crimes they were never part of or knew took place.

And thousands of others were saved by their tribes.

[-Lily-]

Ebyan , it hasn't. I am against the whole principle. Isn't there something deeply disturbing about loving your clan just because you are of that clan? There has to be more to it than that. Perhaps we should ask one another what has my qabil ever done for me? This does not include family members, both immediate and 10 times removed helping you out. Wouldn’t a greater nation that is for the benefit of ALL qabils and all people be a better goal to aim for then, no matter how hard this goal is, than say, a situation where only certain clans are powerful and protected, living good lives? I believe this is what got Somalia in this mess to begin with.

[NGONGE]

^^^ Sounds like your clan let you down bad

[-Lily-]

LoooooooL Ngonge. I or my family have never been in a situation to need the help of strangers thankfully.

[Ms DD]

There has been cases where a man is found wandering aimlessly in ardo qurbo and qabiilkiisa ayaa u soo gurmadey. Any muslim would have been expected to help though it is just the system Somalis operate.

[Ms DD]

Originally posted by Ebyan:

 

Ms D&D;

 

There's a difference between loving your tribe and hating others because of theirs.

 

quote:

---

At the risk of generalising, is one more qabiiliste if other clans arent mixed within his/her family? Maybe Abyan's family is from one clan.

Yes, both of parents are from the same sub-sub(..etc) clan, but what does that prove?

 

. [/QB]

It explains something. If you had access to other clans in your family, at least you'd have saved some love for other clans. Loving your tribe would only leave one of two: Hating other tribes or being indifferent to other tribes.

[Ebyan]

Originally posted by -Lily-:

Wouldn’t a greater nation that is for the benefit of ALL qabils and all people be a better goal to aim for then, no matter how hard this goal is, than say, a situation where only certain clans are powerful and protected, living good lives? I believe this is what got Somalia in this mess to begin with.

Yeah, that would be great, but how do you go about achieving that? By making qabil a taboo subject? You need to face reality, the majority of Somalis are qabilist and all this feel-good hoopla wouldn't change a damn thing.

 

Ms D&D;

 

You're assuming I don't interact with Somalis other than my family, so try again. What next, maybe I went through a traumatic event and that explains why I'm a qabilist? Or maybe it's the doing of my parents who've brain-washed me beyond repair?!

 

I love my tribe and if that makes me qabilist, so be it.

[-Lily-]

You need to face reality, the majority of Somalis are qabilist and all this feel-good hoopla wouldn't change a damn thing

I am talking about qabil am I not? How is that making the issue taboo? I am well aware that qabil is alive & kicking in the Somali community, all I'm saying is that it should just remain a fact and all the importance given to it by some should be diminished, at least to a reasonable extend. People have come to relay more heavily on qabil networking because of the collapse of the country.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Ebyan:

I love my tribe and if that makes me qabilist, so be it.

What's so good about your tribe? What makes it unique among other tribes? Basically, what, in your opinion, makes it so lovable?

 

Can others join? Since it's so good, can someone who's not from your tribe acquire membership? Not unlike a citizenship in another nation (a large tribe ), can I become a naturalized member of your tribe?

 

Or do I not have the right DNA?

 

P.S. If all the women in your tribe are not stunningly beautiful (with great child-bearing hips) and all the men are not oozing wisdom, then I'm afraid your tribe is no different than mine. And I neither hate nor love my clan. I usually never think of them.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by -Lily-:

I am well aware that qabil is alive & kicking in the Somali community, all I'm saying is that it should just remain a fact and all the importance given to it by some should be diminished, at least to a reasonable extend. People have come to relay

more heavily

on qabil networking because of the collapse of the country.

Ebayaney, understanding the sentiments expressed in this thread’s lead question is quite different than justifying it and defending it. Lilly is not denying the reality that is Qabiil. She’s objecting to how it’s misused and promoted. You, on the other hand, seem to be justifying it and putting up a weak defense for it. All you need to do is to read between Lilys’s posts with a measure of openness and you shall have no difficult understanding what’s wrong with such assertions---you dont need to see me !

 

Qabiil is defferent than Qabyaalad. Example of qabiil is Xiinfaniin wanting to know Lily’s’ qabiil or Castro’s. That’s ok in my books. In fact the Quran says it’s the only function for which qabiil should serve. Qabyaalad however is when this simple identification tool is promoted to be all-in-one system that not only claims to provide protection and security for its members, but also emits merit into any system of governance and validates leadership-creation processes. In essence, if you accept such a wicked system, you reject whom you are as a unique human being with distinct thinking processes and subdue yourself to be in alignment with that system’s group-thinking practices. As the last 16 years attest to, the type of problems such system is capable of solving are quite limited. It can never be a substitute for the kind of systems we need develop or leverage to solve our problems as Muslims and Somalis---hence the claim the Qabyaalad is a helpful or beneficial reeks ignorance~~~

[Blessed]

dp

[Blessed]

Personally after my family, Boqorada has done more for me than my qabiil and nation and birth country. In fact, ever since Roobleh slapped my wrists the other day, I feel somewhat obliged to write an ode of a sort.

 

On a more serious note, I think the qabiil network though dead in qurbaha is supportive back home. If a man passes away, they step in to help the family. Also, as NG noted, schools, universities and hospitals are built with donations sent mainly from members of the qabiils residing in that particular town or city.

 

Where Somaalis go wrong, is the 'buurtayaadaa buuraha u dheer' mentality.

 

And, your qabiil would fight harder for your family, as it would be the qabiil that has got them in that mess to begin with.

[Blessed]

Blimey!

[Khalaf]

WOW I like how all of you are twisting Ebyan’s statements. What Lilly is saying is noble, and all of us including Ebyan believe in it. Somali wa daad muslimeen ah, oo walaalo ah, and dis qabil qashiin (da qabyalat) goes to sub-sub sub level it never ends, and wa mushriknimo really how somalis treated each other. But the topic at hand is what Ebyan is talking about da reality on the ground in particular back in Somalia, in which cats are ignoring.

 

Originally posted by Ebyan:

Okay, we're obviously talking about two different things here. When I say most Somalis are qabilist, I mean that they see themselves as part of a qabil and

when push comes to shove, they'd choose their qabil.

^^^^^Are u denying this, I am not talking about us as individuals in da states or Canada Somalis yeah no difference here, but in Somalia the reality are u saying I because of my qabil will have the same treatment as Ngonge in Hergaysa? Or because of ya thay we will be treated differently, bal sheeg sxbyall?

 

Originally posted by Ebyan:

There's a difference between loving your tribe and hating others because of theirs.

^^^^I think that’s what she said lets not get it twisted, qabil is just an extended family, last summer when I and my moms went to Europe it was her qabil that housed us, gave us food and welcomed us its family tang........however those who discriminate other muslims cause of blood ties then they can not be of the Sunnah of Muhammad scw. That reality sadly however exists in particular Somalia lets not sugar coat dis sxbyall, and only Islam can cure it.

[Ebyan]

Lily;

 

People have come to relay more heavily on qabil networking because of the collapse of the country.

I'm glad we agree.

 

Castro;

 

Why should whether you love,hate, or are indifferent to your qabil have any bearing on how I view my qabil? I love my qabil, but that doesn't mean I love every single individual that belongs to my qabil. My love stems from my pride and there's nothing wrong with being proud of who/what you are.

 

Xiinfaniin;

 

I'm not defending or trying to justify anything. I happen to live in a very large Somali community and I have yet to come across a Somali who isn't even in the least bit way (regardless of how minuscule) clannish. Now that we've agreed that most Somalis are qabilist, it's a simple numbers game..I can't be the only qabilist here, so I was right in asserting that some people here are being fake.

 

Qabiil is defferent than Qabyaalad. Example of qabiil is Xiinfaniin wanting to know Lily’s’ qabiil or Castro’s. That’s ok in my books.

And what would one achieve from knowing someone elses tribe? Will you box them as 'friend' and 'foe' accordingly? Honestly, I think you're trying to convince yourself that your not qabilist. I believe I'm qabilist, but my qabilist tendencies don't go beyond me 'loving' my tribe. I could care less about what tribe hebel and heblayo belong to.

 

Anyway, I think we all agree that most Somalis would pick their tribe over Somalia.

 

Khalaf;

 

Thank you brother.