Say No to Islam

[Che -Guevara]

[ailamos]

"a place for apostates to go"

"it's not meant to be offensive"

 

stuff and nonsense... ignore and walk away...

[BOB]

These days anybody who wants to make a name for her/himself just says a contraversial thing against Islam or Muslims and before you know it their stock piles up!

 

Welcome To Post 9/11 Folks.

 

 

Peace, Love & Unity.

[Tuujiye]

^^^ Meeshaan dad nala jooga ayaa naagtaas u arka a hero so watch your self BOB!...

 

this is not post 911 sxb..waxaan wiligeed bee jirtay oo laakiin hada waxee noqotay caadi oo dhuumashadii ba dhamaatay...

 

Che naagtaas Somali u shaqeyso ayaan ku arkay Ottawa parliament maalin hore..Somali gaalo ah oo udoodaya community u gooni ah in the Capital lool...sad saaxiib...

 

 

Wareer Badanaa!!!

[Kool_Kat]

^Majority of Muslimiinta waxaa la ogaaday iney 'madax yareey dooro' yihiin! Marka it is only fair in la juqjuqeeyo...Qofkii wax yar kasheego dulaan iyo dagaal iyo dil aa loola imaanaa...

[Raamsade]

Attackers Hit Mosques of Islamic Sect in Pakistan

 

 

By WAQAR GILLANI and JANE PERLEZ

Published: May 28, 2010

 

 

LAHORE, Pakistan — Hafeez Malik heard the gunfire outside the mosque, then shots inside the prayer hall.

Related

 

The Lede: Video and Blogging From Lahore Under Attack

 

“People were dying one after the other,” said Mr. Malik, a 55-year-old architect. “I could count more than 20 people dead around me.”

 

From inside another mosque several miles away near the central train station, his brother, Abdul Rashid Malik, 65, an engineer, called his family on his cellphone. He was a hostage and had been shot in the leg, he said. He has not been heard from since, Hafeez Malik said.

 

More than 80 worshipers of a minority Muslim sect, the Ahmadis, were killed and more than 110 wounded Friday in a coordinated assault by seven well-trained attackers on two mosques in Lahore, Pakistan’s second largest city, the authorities said.

 

At the mosque known as Dar-ul-Zakir, near the train station, two attackers blew themselves up inside the prayer hall after spraying the congregation with bullets, police officers said.

 

The target was the Ahmadis, a group of about two million Muslims in Pakistan who are considered heretical by many mainstream Muslims because the Ahmadis believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who founded their movement in 1889, was the messiah foretold by Muhammad, the prophet of Islam.

 

There are sizable communities of well-educated Ahmadis in the United States, Britain and other parts of the Muslim diaspora.

 

The assault, which began during Friday Prayer and lasted more than three hours at the Dar-ul-Zakir Mosque, and about an hour at the Bait-ul-Noor Mosque, occurred amid a surge of sectarian violence in Pakistan in the last two years.

 

Minority sects like the Ahmadis and the Shiites and have come under increasing pressure as religious extremism has taken hold, fomented by sectarian groups like Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, formerly state-sponsored organizations.

 

In an unusually strong statement, the American ambassador to Pakistan, Anne W. Patterson, said Pakistan, an ally of the United States, had witnessed an increase in “provocative statements that promote intolerance and are an incitement to extremist violence.”

 

The Ahmadis were declared a non-Muslim minority in the 1970s during the rule of the military dictator Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, a period during which jihadist ideology became ingrained in Pakistan’s state and religious education system.

 

The minister of law in Punjab Province, which includes Lahore, the capital, said that in the days before their assault, the attackers stayed with the Tablighi Jamaat, a Muslim missionary group that is often described by terrorism experts as the antechamber to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. The headquarters of the Tablighi Jamaat are in Raiwind, a town on the outskirts of Lahore.

 

The minister, Rana Sana Ullah Khan, said he believed that the attackers, who operated as commandos, throwing hand grenades and firing automatic weapons, had been trained for the task in Waziristan, the Pakistani Taliban’s base.

 

Geo TV, a leading news channel in Pakistan, reported that members of the Punjab branch of the Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for the attacks. The Punjab branch is composed mainly of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Jaish-e-Mohammad, which have joined forces with the Taliban.

 

The attackers, who worshipers said were quite young, opened fire outside the mosques around 2 p.m., just as the sermons were finishing, survivors said. The assaults began within minutes of each other at the Dar-ul-Zakir Mosque near the train station and at the Bait-ul-Noor Mosque in Model Town, an upscale neighborhood where a former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, lives.

 

Mr. Malik, the architect, said the worshipers at Bait-ul-Noor were sitting, preparing for prayer, when three attackers burst into the prayer hall.

 

One attacker, about 16 years old and wearing a grubby shirt and pants, was wounded and wrestled to the ground by the worshipers, he said.

 

“I was waiting for them to come to me; I was near the front,” Mr. Malik said. “They were shooting whoever they could.”

 

The assault at the mosque near the train station was the more audacious, the police said. One gunman mounted the minaret and traded fire with the police below.

 

The explosion from the two suicide bombers who blew themselves up in the prayer hall there increased the number of deaths, the police said. When the police took control of the mosques, bodies were strewn across the main floors and verandas.

 

“I saw what I would never forget,” said Waseem Ahmad, who worked as a guard at the scanner near the entrance to the Dar-ul-Zakir Mosque. “There were dead bodies everywhere, and blood was flowing everywhere.”

 

Dozens of worshipers survived by scurrying down a narrow passage and hiding in the basement as the ordeal unfolded, said Abdul Salam Arshad, 56, a retired civil servant, who emerged unscathed from the mosque near the train station.

 

Another survivor, Munawar Shahid, an official of the Ahmadi community, hid in his office next to the mosque during the assault. “Everybody is trying to save their life,” Mr. Shahid said on his cellphone as gunfire rattled around him.

 

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan has regularly reported on discrimination against the Ahmadis, and has said that intolerance of them by extremists has escalated. “The extremists are not tolerating any other community, including Ahmadis, and it seems the government has failed to control them,” said I. A. Rehman, the commission’s executive director.

 

The State Department report on human rights said this year said that 11 Ahmadis were killed last year in Pakistan because of their faith. The report said Pakistani law forbade Ahmadis to refer to themselves as Muslims or to engage in any Muslim practices, including using Muslim greetings, referring to their places of worship as mosques, or taking part in the hajj.

 

Live broadcasts of the attacks in Lahore were notable on Friday for failing to refer to the Ahmadis as Muslims. Reporters and commentators rarely referred to the Ahmadis by name, preferring the phrase “minority community.”

 

Source

[Raamsade]

I posted the above story to illustrate the real danger many heretical and former Muslims face. Some groups take it upon themselves in implementing Islamic laws regarding heretics and apostates.

 

In case you don't know, the punishment for apostasy or kufr in Islam is death. There is a long laundry list of what comprises Kufr ranging from denying the prophethood of Mohammed to bidca/innovation to outright apostasy.

 

The massacre at Lahore mosque clearly demonstrates the precarious position many former and heretical Muslims face. It is not imagined or false concoction of "Islamophobes" to say that Muslims intending to leave Islam need assistance since significant proportion of Muslims, even those in the West, persecute apostates.

 

Pam geller is right-wing nutjob. But even a broken watch is right twice a day. While much of what she says about Muslims and Islam can be dismissed as grotesque caricatures and bigoted, she is absolutely right on this particular issue. Regrettably, many Muslims prefer wallowing in victimhood rather than facing reality and marginalizing extremists in their community who give the rest of them a bad image.

[Jacpher]

^Nice try but none sense. The article you posted is few thousand miles off the mark.

 

This lady's anti-Islam campaign ad is run in Manhattan not Lahore. I don't know if you're playing dumb or naive to think running anti-islam campaign ad in public busses in New York will offer a refuge and help Ahmadiya minorities in Pakistan leave Islam.

 

Watch the news clip you posted, "The four million Ahmadiya are minority Muslim sect who seen their rights suppressed. Pakistan is the only Muslim state to have declared them non-Muslims. The country is often the scene of sectarian violence between sunni, shia and christian communities." - Reuters

 

Conflict within religious sects ain't a new phenomenon and such clashes have little and nothing to do with abandon their religion altogether. It is a struggle of recognition and rights. Happens all the time in places like Somalia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan and other parts of the Muslim world. A little disingenuous on your part to say minority religious sects who are fighting for their rights need "Anti-Islam Ad Campaign" in far away countries to free themselves from oppression and violence. Your anti Islam ad is no different than the Pakistani government telling them they don't belong to their religion. So the lady is unknowingly helping Pakistan oppress more minorities by forcing them out of their chosen faith. Good luck finding any oppressed religious sects in Manhattan who needs flyers on buses to liberate themselves.

[Raamsade]

^And you need more nuance and context.

 

First, there is nothing wrong with running anti-Islam Ad campaign any more than there is something wrong with running pro-Islam Ad campaigns. You can proselytize Islam just as you can campaign against Islam. There is a difference between Islam and Muslims. Islam is a set of ideas that can be supported or rejected. But you can't run Ad campaigns against Muslims. Sometimes rightwing nutjobs like Geller fail to keep the distinction between Muslims as a people and Islam as an ideology. For that reason, and among others, I don't support Pam Geller or share her views on Muslims.

 

A little context also helps. A little while ago Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) ran pro-Islam Ad campaigns. Pam Geller and her gang are merely responding to those ads with their own anti-Islam Ads. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

 

Second, I posted the massacre at Lahore mosque to illustrate the violence visited upon Muslims groups that are deemed as "deviants." This is the crux of the matter. Islamic law clearly advocates persecution of those that committed Kufr. The punishment for apostasy is death. Many Muslims who want to leave Islam are fearful of being killed or persecuted in some form. Even those that live in the West where freedom of conscience is supported by the law. In this context, running Ads that purport to help those contemplating quitting Islam make sense and are laudable. Whether the people behind the Ad campaign are genuine is another matter. This is why I support the Ad campaign in light of the Islamic punishment for apostasy. If Islam and Muslims in general respected freedom of conscience of others to leave Islam, they'd be no need for the likes of Pam Geller.

[Tuujiye]

^^^ Waraa bax nagala tag qurufaadkaada!... qof muslim aan aheen oo maanta jooga North America, halista uu kujiro maxey tahay?.... Hadii laakiin oosan muslim aheen oo uu diintiisa musaafiriye, laakiin uu joogo wadan muslim ah, yes sharciga Islamka ayaa qabanaya oo wuu dhihi karaa halis buu ku jiraa....

 

Naagtaan waa muslim naceeb and so are you Mr Raamsade..... wiligaa cabsi aan loo jeedin kujir because qufka runta ka tagay asagoo og, ilaahey inkaartiisa ayaa ku dhacda....

 

 

Wareer Badanaa!!!

[ailamos]

The law on apostasy is not completely agreed upon, there is no universal Islamic view that states apostates must be killed, it is simply a false notion. There certainly is violence in the Muslim community resultant out of nothing but sheer ignorance of the religion and the lack of comprehension of its true message of peace. This matter will require a lot time to settle and I think it's up to the educated Muslim generation to bring the true message of Islam to light and discard these violent ways.

 

Extremist Muslims, much like extremists of all religions, cannot provide strong evidence to support their viewpoints. In case of these so-called Muslims, they often quote a weak hadiths to justify their actions for killing a human being, for example:

 

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:

 

Narrated Ikrima:

 

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them,

for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.

'"

This hadith has only one chain of transmission, it cannot be verified so it's not enough to validate taking of a human life, similar to some of Abu Hurayra's misogynistic hadiths which were clearly contrary to the Prophet's utmost respect for women.

 

While in the Quran an entire Surah has been dedicated to the theme of non-violence in conversion.

 

Suratul Kafirun:

Say, "O disbelievers". I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

 

Suratul Kahf:29:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord,

so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.

" Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them.

A simple fact to comprehend is that apostasy is between the apostate and his/her Creator... period. We have no jurisdiction and must not force people against their will.

 

If you want to do something for fun, check out the Christian laws on apostasy, you'll be surprised at what you'll find

[nuune]

^^ No worries Ailamos, no one is gona kill you, and one day Inshaa Allaah you will know and find out the truth :cool:

 

 

Yes Christian so called laws apply full punishment on apostasy, all kinds, stone, mindi, drowning, burning, crucifixtion etc.

[ailamos]

^^ of course no one's going to kill me ... the truth is out there for those interested... so start searching yaa Nuune, you just might finally be able to be at peace with yourself

[nuune]

^^ Indeed Ailamos, I already have the truth, Islam, and feel the peace within, so I would advice you to look deeper into Islam and give up the articles that critics of Islam write all the time against Islam, you will not find any truth there at all if you are inetersted in finding the truth, explore the beauty of Islam, and make your own judgements & conclusions, may Allah guide you to the correct path.

[ailamos]

^^ very interesting yaa Nuune, thanks for your advice... however, in contrast to your approach of total lack of criticism, I prefer to criticize what I see as wrong and that fits exactly into the "making my own judgments and conclusions" bit you just stated, so my advice in return would be to not swallow everything, criticize matters which you think are unjust and wrong instead of looking the other way... perhaps we don't see eye-to-eye in certain matters of Islam, and that's just fine.