Islam is coming, Islam is coming

[Nur]

Johnny B.

 

Rest assured that I am not easily frustrated, if i did I would not be able to carry on my vocation in this medium.

 

Brother, I am not here for being recognized for any talent, wallahi I did not know I had one until one day back in 1999 I saw some of my posts circulating the net, since then, I was encouraged to contribute from anonymity and to this day I have not crossed that barrier I set for myself, I have never met outside of this medium anyone from SOL, so, the idea of being recognized is an alien concept to me, the only recognition I seek is from Allah.

 

Secondly brother, I am no Goliath, nor is Castro a David, so the Matias anology is not applicable here, because again, purpose behind my discussion is to help correct concepts and behaviour of Nomads who lack Islamic knowledge, and if anyone finds mine questionable, I wholeheartedly welcome if it corrects my concepts and behaviour. I am no holier-than-thou kind a person. I hope you take my statement as true. The focus must always be comparing ideas to buy the best one, people should be recognized for their ideas, ideas should not be recognized for their people.

 

 

Nur

[NGONGE]

Sorry, Baashe. But, I’m not having that argument. It is with all due respect yet another lazy line of reasoning.

 

 

Get your scales out; we’re going to do some weighing here. In fact, I am finally going to show you what a spade looks like.

 

You saw my disagreement with Nur above. I can still see that he’s stuck on his conspiracy theories, but I also know that Nur is a reasonable man and that sooner or later my argument will get through to him.

 

Still, in this thread, I could have posted my final reply in the form of a verse from the Quran! There are far too many to choose from. I could have used Khayer’s choice (whims can be applied to all). I could have chosen a line or two about hypocrisy or hypocrites. I could have posted a couple of verses talking about Iman and Islam (making sure that anyone reading it will get the insinuation that I don’t rate so and so’s Iman very highly).

 

To show that it’s best that we ‘agree to disagree’, I could have used the verses from Surat al Kafiroon (

To you be your religion, and to me my religion)! Could you argue with me then? It’s all in the way you understand it, right?

 

What is vexing is that all this takes place in a discussion board where people that can’t read get all worked up with sentences such as “there is a problem with Islam†or “the trouble with Islamâ€! They shout and scream for clarifications, explanations and repentance. Under no circumstances, their argument goes, should one utter the words “there is a problem with Islamâ€. If you can get angry over such simple words being used in such a way, HOW DARE YOU not get upset when the holiest of holy words are nonchalantly posted into every topic with no explanation or argument? What is the scale being used here?

 

 

Saaxib, the posting of random verses should not be encouraged if they can be read (or understood) in a different way (and those verses were read in a very different way, not by me alone). It should not be encouraged if the person posting them hardly understands them (and Khayer demonstrates time and again that his Islamic knowledge is minuscule).

 

This is not simply a matter of a difference of opinion; this is a matter of Islamic etiquette. It’s not MY CHOICE or invention, it is what EVERY scholar would recommend and demand.

 

I know you try to see ‘the other side’ of the argument here and expect me to also see that. However, there is no other side to this argument. One is either duplicitous or not. One is either intellectually very lazy or not. One is either a fence sitter or not. Now, you see what I just wrote above? THAT IS A SPADE. You see what Khayer wrote? THAT IS A SPADE. You see what Johnny B and Castro wrote (here and in other threads) THAT IS A SPADE. You either call it every time you see it or you let it go and admit that it is an open for all forum. If Kahyer can abuse the verses and ahadeeth in the way he does (and get away with it) Castro can be a fan of homosexuality (and never be picked up on it). Not that I am saying Castro is a fan of homosexuality. Or Rushdie can write books insulting Islam and be let free to do and say what he likes. One has to apply some sort of scale to these things. Right now, it all looks very random!

 

Conviction without contemplation is a sorry fix.

[Jacpher]

7 of Nine,

Believe me I didn’t have any motive. It could be a coincident of some sort And I sure hope I didn’t cause any waves.

 

As a general rule, we should avoid preconceiving the notion that some are to the rescue of others. The notion ‘us’ against ‘them’ is a recipe for conflict. And let me add, such conflict would be a BIG turn off.

 

Where’s Fidel Castro, that everyone is speaking on his behalf??

[Mutakalim]

It seems that I have missed this "discussion" by a few days. No matter. This thread is effective insofar as it serves its purpose( evoking emotion, educating etc). Appealing to the emotions of an audience is not only effective but even at times necessary. This is a point that is not lost upon seasoned preachers. It simply works!

 

Now, when addressing a more discerning audience, a preacher must not appeal to emotions at all. This would constitute an intellectual offense. In fact, the preacher would have to become a polemic and present arguments for his position. For those of you who were disappointed with this thread, should you comes across a thread such as this in the future, then you have the option of ignoring it as you are not its intended audience. One cannot ask a preacher to desist from appealing to the emotions of the less inquisitve segment of his/her audience, because such a demand would be absurd.

 

With Salaams

PK

[Haaraahur.]

Roob, No, I don’t. However, I’m not impressed with ur trailing of certain members and trying to character assassinate them in heated debates. People like you take the discussion to the rotten end.

 

p.s. My contribution is telling you off… isn’t it clear?

Waxaan ka faa’idaayo (character assassination) baa iska yar. Waxaan aad uga xumaada sidaa u ixtiraam la’aan uga hadlo diinta Islaamka. I was only critical of the posts? Ma fahamtay hadda? As for the telling off cid xiisaynaysa xagxagashaada raadso walaaley.

 

 

Roob,

I don't have issues with Ngonge. I disagree with him on some issues. I don't approve how he's handling the debates relating to Islam. Nevertheless, the man is clear on one thing. He is for Islam. He is for Muslims. He has chosen his camp time and again. He has some strategies in mind (that could put us on the right track) that he would like us too see discussing. He is mainly thinking along political lines, media utilization, and getting into the ring sort to speak with the very folks who malign us with intent to win the argument for our side. Concenterate in Diaspora first. This is how I understood him. Is this a winning strategy? That is debatable! Are there other strategies that can get us to the promise land? Here is where he needs to give other opinions a receptive ear.

 

He is not doing his theisi a favor when he starts with topic sentence like "Islam is the problem". By and large, the man is talented. He can pen a very impressive, coherent, and rational argument. I don't want you to look for cilado. Let's root out the minor obstacles (tone, emotions, and what not) and have Nur, Ngonge, Viking, Mutakalim, Xiin and other knowledgeable fellas who are in the same camp pull the robe for us. Opinions, different takes and views, and dissent as long as they are reasonable and within the "camp", they are all welcomed. Opinions from other camps are aslo welcomed as long as their adherents do not hide (with intent to blurr the lines) the camp they really belong to.

Walaal Being talented or not is irrelevant in this topic what is relevant is whether the truth being stated about Islaam or not. Islaam is a perfect religion revealed by the Most Perfect, The All knowing and The All Wise.

 

As for the cilad raadis I was only being critical of the manner he responds to Islamic questions. This is Islaam we are talking about after all not some trivial matter!

That is all. Understanding Islaam is something we all have to do it is neither dependent on being talented or articulate. ALLAAH Gives Knowledge.

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by

Roob

:

Ma fahamtay hadda? As for the telling off cid xiisaynaysa xagxagashaada raadso walaaley.

I hope waan is wada fahamney. So Truce! let's call a truce. Ducaqabe too.

 

Fidel is surviving Rita. Lets hope we see him again so we can virtually skin him. Again.

[Haaraahur.]

^

Hayeh heshiis baan nahay hadda.

[NGONGE]

^^^^ Get over yourself, saaxib.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Baashi:

With such record, you agree with me I hope, you are not in a position to be taken seriously in matters relating to Islam. You can always have your opinions but you owe us to reveal your true convictions.

Baashe, I see where you stand and where your true convictions lie. I owe no one here, or anywhere, a revelation of my true convictions. Remind me not to drink from the tea you're peddling around here.

 

Originally posted by iPod Athena:

Fidel

is surviving

Rita

. Lets hope we see him again so we can virtually skin him.

It seems like another hurricane tore through this topic in my absence. It doesn't look like I've missed much.

 

As you were.

[Nur]

And now the Pope is spreading Islam unwittingly, Churches are empty, priests caught molesting kids in churches on the daily news, gets into the Islam hate bandwagon of Bush/Blair and Company.

 

The more islam and prophet Muhammad's person is attacked by prominent Christians like the pope, the more converts islam gets from Christendom.

 

 

The future is interesting

 

 

Nur

[Castro]

Originally posted by Nur:

The more islam and prophet Muhammad's person is attacked by prominent Christians like the pope, the more converts islam gets from Christendom.

How's that good Nur? Bal ii yara jilci kuma fahmine.

[Jacpher]

It’s not new, has been the norms of the media. If you turn on your radio and tune to a conservative talk show, all you heard is Islamofacist and Islamonazi terms repeatedly. They should include Islamophobia to the list. A religious and cultural genocide at its best in the name of free speech. I sometimes wonder if all their listeners are as ethnocentric as these hosts appear to be.

[xiinfaniin]

^^The irony of the Pope’s speech is that it’s meant to moderate excesses done in the name of liberal modernity! Instead of pointing out the obvious errors of today’s secular society and its sheer emptiness of anything religion, he ironically resorted to a cheap line, a fusty one at that, and showed a deep contempt toward both the message and the character of our prophet, prophet Muhhamad (scw)! More interestingly, I find his choice of words and the quotes he used to support his point about jihad quite revealing! Why choose words of Christian emperor whose era was the darkest in the Christian-Islam relations. Why refresh Mulsim memories about savages of crusaders? I normally have a respect for the men of faith, and find their messages about the decadency of western civilization generally agreeable. But for the man who presides the Vatican to descend this low and think he could get away with it is beyond naivety! The least Muslims could do is to insist on a personal apology from him.

 

As for Nur’s point about Pope’s blunder working to our advantage, I am not sure. It’s quite natural, and generally expected, for Muslims to rally and unite when the character of our prophet is attacked or one of our religious teachings mocked but what advantage would that give us, is not clear and is rather wanting further illumination. I personally would like to see the correlation between conversion rates and negative high-powered speeches/events on our faith. I have heard stories about the September the Eleventh and how it caused upward increase in the number of Americans converting to Islam!

[Castro]

Jimcaalow, stop listening to talk-radio. Every time I accidentally tune into one of those horrid stations during my daily commute, I feel sick the rest of the day. The amount of hate and ignorance spewed makes the KKK seem like a benevolent and wise organization. Avoid it like the plague atheer. Look for Pacifica stations instead.

 

Xiin, the papacy in Catholicism is a ceremonial role. For all intents and purposes, the pope is as important as the Secretary General of the UN ( ). Just last week, "Benedict" was wisely speaking of secularism and the seeming loss of faith in rich countries. Not even a week later, he speaks out of his rear end. I didn't love him then and I don't hate him now. He's just irrelevant to my existence, as he should be.

 

Edit: Frankly, it's not the pope but the hypocrites who speak of what a great religion Islam is and in the same day drop bombs on innocent Muslim women and children that infuriate me. You know, the ones that kill Muslims in the tens of thousands. The pope ain't our problem atheer.

[xiinfaniin]

^^^The papacy is clearly in trouble adeer! The Vatican is a very important religious institution, and has a great authority on substantial number of people around the world! When the man who leads it farts like that it becomes an object of astonishment! This is the same institution that has been promoting a message of interfaith dialogue and respect. It’s the same institution that rebuked America’s policies toward the Muslim world few a times. It had a very good track record, unlike its evangelical brethren, for having a realist attitude toward others. This Pope simply dropped the ball, yaa Castro.