N.O.R.F Posted April 11, 2010 red herrings galore ailamos. Will respond when time permits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ailamos Posted April 11, 2010 no distractions from the truth there amigo... I await thy response Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ailamos Posted April 11, 2010 Originally posted by *Ibtisam: quote: so I ask you awoowe, what is wrong with a secular system of government where the rights of ALL are protected? where Muslims have the right to go to prayer during the work day, where you hear athaan everywhere five times a day and where the minorities fully protected because the law says so and prohibits discrimination based on religion, gender, orientation, ethnicity, age and social class... where the basic fact that we are all human being with the right to a decent life is what binds us and where the government does not favor one group over the other... Where does this happen dear Aliamos?? I would like to move there. That model certainly does not exist in practice anywhere, certain groups are always favored in one way or the other but the resistance to both change and the formulation of a base from which we can at least attempt to reach that ideal is what Tuujiye stands for. My awoowe here subscribes to the ideology of xenophobia and dominance over the "other" which is rooted in his religious convictions and that's exactly what I am against. What I am trying to say is that at least the countries of the West have the protection of the rights of all living within their borders embedded in their constitutions. The practical applications of these are a different matter but certain countries, perhaps Canada or the Scandinavian countries have applied them to great extents. If anyone resident feels violated they have the ability to take the government to court, this is the rule of law in a secular nation. Do you think this would be the case in a system that is dictated by some people's interpretation of divine law? I think not. I am not saying the Western system is perfect by any means whatsoever, all I'm saying is that it should not be rejected solely on the basis that it has been created by gaalo, which is something that utterly repulses my poor awoowe and makes him blind to the benefits that could come with it. when someone makes statements such as "umadiina waxa aad diinta islaamka u nacdeen is your personal lifes... iska soo hanuuna oo ilaahey ka cabsada... you will always be lost and you will always look for an excuse why you left the diin.. I wonder how you all sleep at night knowing what waits for you... is sad when someone knows the truth and they ignore it" it displays the level of ignorance and madax adeeg that is prevalent in puritanical, self righteous people... he goes on to say Secular iyo qurufaadkaan aad sheegeysaan ma aha wax meesha anaga noo yaala.... and it makes me wonder why there is such a direct link in his mind between secularism iyo kurufaad? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted April 11, 2010 ^^^That Somali is not Somali, it took me a while to decode. What I am trying to say is that at least the countries of the West have the protection of the rights of all living within their borders embedded in their constitutions. The practical applications of these are a different matter but certain countries, perhaps Canada or the Scandinavian countries have applied them to great extents. If anyone resident feels violated they have the ability to take the government to court, this is the rule of law in a secular nation. Do you think this would be the case in a system that is dictated by some people's interpretation of divine law? I think not. The rule of law in secular nations is dictated by peoples interpretation. This is why laws are always evolving (or rather going backwards in this age of terrorism). The fact that any other model would suffer from peoples influence is the starting point. Mida kale, adigu why is it every discussion thread regardless of topic it ends up being a debate about where you are going or you leaving the deen or your bed time habits. Maxad uu entertain garesy these randomness. People who object to you and what you may or may not follow iyo the discussion hala kalo saaro. Lastly if you are trying to win a battle about what certain individuals view of the west is, then I guess that individual will speak for themselves. However if your argument is that western systems are more perfect that divine rule or that western systems have less flaws than this or that, I am happy to hear it. As for myself, I believe democracy is an integral part of Islam and fits in fine with no contradictions, with the except of the limits of free will. Islamic philosophers have spent a great deal of time on democracy in Islam and the compatibility of divine rule with democracy. I'd be happy to recommend some reading for any one interested once I reach back home inshallaha. As you were... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BUKURR Posted April 11, 2010 ..but the resistance to both change and the formulation of a base from which we can at least attempt to reach that ideal is what Tuujiye stands for. It boils down to that rigid mindset these individuals have, to the extent, not even realizing they're a living proof of the falsity of their argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.O.R.F Posted April 11, 2010 When you actually try to understand what you're opposing instead of going by youVe read in various western media let us know. Ailamos, in my haste and skim reading I actually thought you attempted answering my question. You haven't. Your hesitation is understandable as you and I both know you've chosen to be rather selective in your comparisons. Runta maxaad u qarinaysa? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuujiye Posted April 11, 2010 posted by Ailamos aka Somalia... imagine if Canadian laws came from the Bible? What do you think the fate of all those Muslims to be? Learn the faith then ask me a question like this.. If the Canadian law followed the bible, muslims would love to be in Canada.. What do you know about the true Christianity? Sxb la imoo argument with in the topic ha furin another topic… diinta Christaanka iyo tan Muslimka hadii labadooda sida saxda ah loo wada raaci lahaa, aduunkaan nabad buu ahaan lahaa… before you say anything and point to 12th century Andalusia as an example of religious pluralism let me remind you that we are not in that time and age and that today we are infected with the concept of a religious race between us and the Christian West, a race which, if you haven't noticed, we are losing and depending on the West for assistance and support while at the same time the West is using us as puppets against each other So secularism is the answer? Lool and you make your self sound so proud by distaining your self from Islam by calling it 12th century Andalusia.. Saaxiib you really need to read History of Islam and the History of the west before you make such points.. Have you ever heard of the term “history repeats it self”? everything that’s happening today, has happened hundreds of years ago and is not something new.. Many nations has gone thru what Somalia is going thru today including the USA and look at them today… while we clench our Qurans and refuse to take from the West certain concepts which has enabled them to prosper and unclench the fist of religious control that has kept them from advancing... they have achieved that while keeping their religious identity as Christians... ^^ again like I told you in the above statement, you need to learn the history of Islam and Christianity before you make such argument.. If Muslims followed the Qur’aan the right way and respected it’s values, we would have peace and have moved forward in this world..this is in the qur’aan it self.. Islam teaches the way of life in fact that’s the meaning of Islam saaxiib. We do have the history of peace and growth, wealth and health and everything that made a great nation strong. Muslims and Christian and Jews lived side by side when they all respected and followed their true books.. It is what you call secularism that broke them a part, it is your kind does that don’t believe in God that broke them apart.. For their self interest, they have created what we call today secularism didn’t want anything to do with this law based life…. All 3 faith band alcohol and sex before marriages lool and all three faith respected human rights avoided trouble… what you call secularism started before this date you claim is out dated 12ths century.. So saaxiib wax aan aniga ku weydiinayo ma aha about secularism because I know waxa ee secularism u taagan tahay laakiin I asked you a question which you keep avoiding because you know is the truth and you keep on quoting to other as if they would think of me weird lool.. I asked you a legit question and that question is what is your true interest of secular government? Simple! so I ask you awoowe, what is wrong with a secular system of government where the rights of ALL are protected? where Muslims have the right to go to prayer during the work day, where you hear athaan everywhere five times a day and where the minorities fully protected because the law says so and prohibits discrimination based on religion, gender, orientation, ethnicity, age and social class... where the basic fact that we are all human being with the right to a decent life is what binds us and where the government does not favor one group over the other... it may not exist anywhere but at least we can strive to accomplish that ideal, and that is something you, awoowe, are resistin I’ll answer your question…there is no such secular system that protects the rights of all.. Please proof me wrong! I could give you many many secular governments that abuse the rights of all.. And please don’t try to make a case by saying such things like “is not the right secular system” because it won’t make sense. However saaxiib, by reading this last part of what you wrote is clear why you want secular government and is just that bolded area.. The true Islam protects the minorities and other classes you wrote their laakiin adiga waxa aad secular government u rabtid is because of the guilt you feel personally for leaving your faith! Is simple saaxiib and wiligaa that guilt iyo fear and even confusion ayaad ku noolaneysaa… Anaga hanala imaan such things like Ayaan xirsi iyo beenteeda, hanoogu soo ganban Secular theory iyo the Idea of protecting the rights of human.. Saaxiib we all want a world were peace is rejoiced laakiin secularism is not the right theory ee iska hanuun oo ilaahey xarigiisa qabso…. You keep on making the same argument and sometimes all I see is you and other gaalo trying to dirt Islam so you could all justify your reasons for leaving Islam but you guys have nothing on Islam other than Alshabaab and other extreme groups who them selfs are dirtying Islam…. I’m up for rights and peace and I have nothing against people who don’t believe in Islam or god but I have problem with is does who try to put Islam down so they could justify their way of life… If your ways of life doesn’t come in terms with Islam, and you decided to leave islam, then don’t blame Islam all your problems! Find what fits your life and in the mean time respect Islam and what it really stands for…. Everytime you come here with you commercial ideas and your Glen Beck views and try to sound so intelligent…. What is your reason for wanting Secular Government? Ps. I'm not wadaad saaxiib and I'm not someone who is an expert of Islam laakiin I know a lost person one I see one..ee please Nagala tag nac nacdaan aad iska wadid markaste awoowe!!! Wareer Badabaa!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polanyi Posted April 11, 2010 Originally posted by Tuujiye: quote: The Islamic government of bladland and moorishland fully salutes our esteemend brother, the warrior, the halganized Somalia, the islamic knight of the general section, mr wareer badana aka adeer Tuujiye. Indeed here delivered some crushing blows and decisive words that strike like sharpened persian swords, when he said: quote:but we are Somali and we always had and have our own dhaqan iyo diin.. Secular iyo qurufaadkaan aad sheegeysaan ma aha wax meesha anaga noo yaala.... war al-shabaab aniga xitaa wee idili la haayeen because I play football and wear shorts... Karl.. haye gaaladii miyaa la safatay adigana? saaxiib aniga all I ask of these guys is to stop blaming their problems the Arabs and admit their true intentions! they have problem with Islam and thats very clear... Secularism waxaa ahaa shuuciyaashii iyo waxaan maanta aduunka wada xukuma oo muslimka isku sheegayaan... Carabtaan ee dhahaayaan waan nacebnahay waa wada secular leaders lool tell me one who is not??? all they always point out is the wahabis in Saudi Arabia and they are very secular they just use religion on the poor... Karl read waxa ee ragaan soo qoreen before aad adigana diin naceeb lasoobodin... Aniga I agree with them when they say somalia always had daqan and diin and we didn't need the arab culture laakiin don't tell me if we had secular government things would have been different lool Ragiina waxaan idiin qabay rag culus oo historiga somalia wax ka yaqaanay laakiin tabar ma heysaan markaad lasoo barxad fadhiisataan this weak debate... GDwonder saaxiib I don't need you to side with me lool I know what I wrote and I didn't ofend anyone.. gaal=non-believer and if you don't believe in god in my language we call that person gaal as in arabic they call them kufaar... so if one gets offended by that, then that person is not a gaal or is feeling very sad or guilty for leaving his faith..hopefuly they feel guilty which means ilaahey wili naxariis buu tusayaa... Che whats your argument abti adiga?? diintana wax haka sheegin hadii kale teesto aan kaaga soo dhex bixinaa computerka Wareer Badanaa!!! Aryey sxb. I called you a Sheikh. I called you a warrior. I calledn you a knight of SOL. Then you interpret that as in insult. :confused: Cajaban. In case you didn't get that: I support you(jihadka ino wad ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BUKURR Posted April 11, 2010 Mujaahidiinta, idinka ley sayf ha isla dhicina Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuujiye Posted April 11, 2010 ^ GD lool Karl ilaahey seef uma dhiibo.. kan xayawaanka xitaa wuu dili lahaa... Karl sxb Muslim miyaad tahay? I'm Tuujiye aka ina baqti lagde in SOL saaxiib lool I did my share of rabsho and name calling in SOL but I always delt with Lost people..ilaahoo mee ahaadaan bajaq yaashee femenistiga ahaa ama nimankii qabiilka wad wadi jiray waxaas dhan waan soo aragnay.. laakiin maanta sheekada waxaa nala soo gasheen "gaalnimo" is the new "it" thing idinkoo gurmad ah oo isku wada lood kasoo baxay... Laakiin I see in aad xoogaa soo dabacdeen..... Wareer Badanaa!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BUKURR Posted April 11, 2010 O shoot, look Tuujiye aka wax-qaloocis, I confess, I don't follow much of what he writes in SOL since his first pitch was to greet ladies only, beside that, I've come to know this Karl guy to be one of few who virtually wages jihad against different-minded people, like you and some others do. Its kind of a real depiction of the current Somali situation, like Xisbul islam and Alshabab, who seemingly eject from the same hole but would kill each other, so gladly will hand both of you guys cutting edge swords, and the result should be one of two, in which the outcome shall be a joyous moment for me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuujiye Posted April 12, 2010 ^^ me and Karl will get olone fine but is you and your Gaal friends that will have hard time with us... GDwonder you need to live your life and practice your faith which ever way you like but don't mock a faith and paint it dirty when you don't live by it... I been here for a long time and does that know me in here will tell you that I'm the last guy who is religous in here.. Laakiin since no one was doing anything about this Islam Bashing, I thought it was time for me to show a different side lool GD iska baashaal saaxiib ee naga dhaafa murankaan diimeedka..ragaan iska dhigayaan cilmaaniga ha dhageysan... Wareer Badanaa!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geel_jire Posted April 12, 2010 Tuujiye meesha wax musliminaya caja'ib meesha ma sidan u gaalo badnayd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ailamos Posted April 12, 2010 Originally posted by Tuujiye: Learn the faith then ask me a question like this.. If the Canadian law followed the bible, muslims would love to be in Canada.. What do you know about the true Christianity? I know more than you... see below for your outlandish statements Sxb la imoo argument with in the topic ha furin another topic… diinta Christaanka iyo tan Muslimka hadii labadooda sida saxda ah loo wada raaci lahaa, aduunkaan nabad buu ahaan lahaa… looks like you know sida saxda ah of every religion there is yaa Tuujiye, the Catholic Chruch over the last so many hundreds of years has shown the true colors of what happens when they control things... "sida saxda" ah oo aad kahadleysid only presents itself in certain households here and there but it fails miserably when trying to govern the masses... So secularism is the answer? Lool and you make your self sound so proud by distaining your self from Islam by calling it 12th century Andalusia.. Saaxiib you really need to read History of Islam and the History of the west before you make such points.. I'm not disdaining Islam and if you have carefully read when I've been saying instead of being oversensitive... The Islam in Andalusia was the highlight of Muslim rule in the world and if you didn't know that then I'm sorry to say that I have no time to teach you history... Many nations has gone thru what Somalia is going thru today including the USA and look at them today… I look at them and see secular countries where all types of migrants flooding into them... That includes Muslims if you didn't know If Muslims followed the Qur’aan the right way and respected it’s values, we would have peace and have moved forward in this world... If... if... if... if... that's all I keep reading from you... when was the last time these "ifs" have been translated into reality? Islam teaches the way of life in fact that’s the meaning of Islam saaxiib. We do have the history of peace and growth, wealth and health and everything that made a great nation strong. Tuujiye, ya 7abibi awoowe, I am not in disagreement here that Islam teaches so many wonderful things... Muslims and Christian and Jews lived side by side when they all respected and followed their true books.. It is what you call secularism that broke them a part, it is your kind does that don’t believe in God that broke them apart.. If you didn't know Muslim decline was not instigated by secularism, the term itself was created in the 1800s and besides scholars like Fakhry are of the opinion that Ibn Rushd was one of the fathers of secular thought. All 3 faith band alcohol and sex before marriages lool and all three faith respected human rights avoided trouble… Christianity prohibits alcohol? you're kidding right? have you heard of the Communion? Judaism prohibits alcohol? have you heard of havdallah at the end of Shabbat? I realize that your statements are rather empty awoowe... retirement approaches... So saaxiib wax aan aniga ku weydiinayo ma aha about secularism because I know waxa ee secularism u taagan tahay laakiin I asked you a question which you keep avoiding because you know is the truth and you keep on quoting to other as if they would think of me weird lool.. I asked you a legit question and that question is what is your true interest of secular government? Simple! OK, fair enough Tuujiye, I wasn't avoiding your question but since aad adiga ogtahay secularismta waxa ee u taagantay then you should know the answer... In any case, my interest is simple, having lived several Muslim countries and having lived in some secular ones I have realized that I would much rather be living in the latter. I could give you many many secular governments that abuse the rights of all.. And please don’t try to make a case by saying such things like “is not the right secular system” because it won’t make sense. if I did then I would be giving you the same argument you gave me "If Muslims followed the Qur’aan the right way and respected it’s values, we would have peace and have moved forward in this world..." so if I say "it is not the right secular system" and it doesn't make sense then what you said above won't make sense either... they're based on the same logic However saaxiib, by reading this last part of what you wrote is clear why you want secular government and is just that bolded area.. The true Islam protects the minorities and other classes you wrote their laakiin adiga waxa aad secular government u rabtid is because of the guilt you feel personally for leaving your faith! Is simple saaxiib and wiligaa that guilt iyo fear and even confusion ayaad ku noolaneysaa… How do you know that I have left my faith? Which is my faith? Do I have one? You cannot answer any of those questions awoowe with complete certainty, you don't know me so please don't pretend you do. The you-left-your-faith-because-you-advocate-secularism argument is a bit childish so please leave it behind and don't embarrass yourself. Anaga hanala imaan such things like Ayaan xirsi iyo beenteeda, hanoogu soo ganban Secular theory iyo the Idea of protecting the rights of human.. Saaxiib we all want a world were peace is rejoiced laakiin secularism is not the right theory ee iska hanuun oo ilaahey xarigiisa qabso…. ayayyaaay... Ayaan halkee ka imaaday?!?!? waryaa why are you comparing me to that whackjob? Like I said before get over your sensitivity awoowe... You keep on making the same argument and sometimes all I see is you and other gaalo trying to dirt Islam Show me one spot where I dirt Islam. I’m up for rights and peace and I have nothing against people who don’t believe in Islam or god Liar liar pants on fire... I have never openly attacked Islam but you have a problem with me? hmmm... that's a contradiction awoowe... Everytime you come here with you commercial ideas and your Glen Beck views and try to sound so intelligent…. Again comparing me to another conservative quack... seriously awoowe what is up with you... getting a bit worked up I see I'm not someone who is an expert of Islam So please stop acting like one Wareer Badabaa!!! You're worked up... please calm down, you even misspelled your trademark signature Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ailamos Posted April 12, 2010 Originally posted by *Ibtisam: Mida kale, adigu why is it every discussion thread regardless of topic it ends up being a debate about where you are going or you leaving the deen or your bed time habits. Maxad uu entertain garesy these randomness. People who object to you and what you may or may not follow iyo the discussion hala kalo saaro. I think you know I'm a reasonable person I post a rather unoffensive opinion on a matter then get attacked for it and called all manner of things, for that I cannot keep quiet, besides I'm at a conference these days so I have time to battle the self-righteous in this forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
