Shidane Caroone

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Centurion:

quote: It doesn't matter who/what MC voted for; who/what the majority of Canadian citizens voted for is what factors, the rest will share responsibility. Isn't that what Democracy is about? If the majority of Canadians vote for an increase of 10% in federal taxes, it will not absolve those who voted against it from paying the taxes.

Right, you've gone from accusing him of voting for the present government, to concluding that it doesnt matter who he voted for, as a Canadian citizen he is guilty of whatever crime his government(one he hasnt necessarily voted for) commits.

 

I hope you can see the fallacy in your argument.

Why can't you see him (MC Xamar) proclaiming to be a Canadian and yet avoiding what it comes with i.e. the atrocities they commit in the Muslim world? Its like saying I was a Nazi supporter but was not responsible the massacre of polish people!

 

The Canadian system and everyone who believed in that system is responsible for the killing and torture of our late brother, period!

[Taliban]

Originally posted by MC Xamar:

As a matter of fact, when this all happened back in 1993, I was 15 years old and ineligible to vote. Listen brother, I can understand your anger at this atrocity, but how do you think I feel, as a Muslim, am I not angry as well? This isn't a "me vs. you" debate bro, we're on the same side. Or else I could start rattling off the atrocities committed by your own(read:internationally recognised) government. How would you like it I held you accountable for letting in Ethiopian troops to run free and rape your women and children while they mercilessly kill your men, claiming to be protecting their own sovereignty? Pretty foolish, I'd say.....

Anyways, let's just remember we're all brothers under Islam, and I have nothing to do with what happened in Beledweyne.

MC Xamar, sxb please don't get me wrong. We were talking about Canada's post-911 involvement in Muslim countries (Afghanistan) when you mentioned that you're a Canadian citizen. You're a young person, so you couldn't have been involved in voting for a Canadian government whose military tortured and killed marxuum Shidane. Besides, at the time of voting, Muslim voters didn't know how the Canadian military would treat Muslims in Somalia. This brings us to the recent Canadian government(s) whom you have voted for; Muslim voters know the Canadian military's track record in how it treats (torture, killing, iwm) Muslims. Sxb, all I am trying to say is, there's a big responsibility that comes with being a Muslim citizen in the West.

[Ariadne]

The Canadian system and everyone who believed in that system is responsible for the and of our late brother, period! QUOTE]

 

Really? you think so?

what about getting drunk on power and abusing it?

what about corruption of many military officials?

what about even the idea of sendng soliders to a country is more or less playing the role of the Imperial colonizer?

and what about a misled public?

 

[QB] [

Why can't you see him (MC Xamar) proclaiming to be a Canadian and yet avoiding what it comes with i.e. the atrocities they commit in the Muslim world? Its like saying I was a supporter but was not responsible the massacre of polish people!

We are all aware of the state of Afghanistan, but, I think being a Canadian does not automatically make you a supporter of the occupation of Afghanistan.

 

There are endless amounts of Candaians that are angered and ashamed that this country is acting as a colonizer.

 

It seems to me what you are saying is (correct me if I'm wrong) this:

Being a Canadian citizen makes you personally responsible "for the attrocities they commit in the muslim world"

 

In other words (as an example) every single German that has ever lived or will ever live is personally responsible for the holocaust.

 

wow!

 

Talk about stratchig your nets far and wide.

[Ms DD]

Taliban and Alle-u baahne..You are just clutching straws here. Please do stop this.

[Baluug]

Originally posted by Taliban:

Sxb, all I am trying to say is, there's a big responsibility that comes with being a Muslim citizen in the West.

I might be a little more inclined to agree with you if I had moved to Canada from a Muslim country purely for economical reasons, but I was born here and this is my home. So just like there are millions of Americans who disagree with Bush's policies, they should not be blamed for Abu Ghraib, or anything else in Iraq, that's preposterous. As well, I did not vote in Canada's federal election in 2001, and even if Allah SWT were to judge me on that, whether I voted or not, I still didn't become Muslim until May 2002, so anything before that has been wiped off my record. Thank you, come again.

 

P.S. You talk a lot about the "responsibilities of a Muslim in the west", but you have failed to mention where you live? I don't see why you would have a problem in disclosing that information, seeing as you're not a "fake mullah", right?

[Naden]

^

 

Probably not a fake mullah but perhaps a born-again one? No sooner than they are dipped in holy water do they shake their wet hair and splash the rest of us.

[Fiqikhayre]

^That's the same argument used to justify the bombing of innocent people on public trains and buses in western countries.

 

It's not Islaam nor is it just but a collective presecution and the killing of innocents for pure association with a government and its subsequent 'wrong policies' in their eyes.

 

I saw them make such rationale and excusing the behaviours of certain individuals who belief if they 'bomb' a bus or train full of infidels, that they avenging muslims across the globe and also doing an act that will bring them closer to their creator and which will lead them to die a martyrs death by blowing themselves up, to enter paradise and live happily afterwards although they killed innocent people and themselves and spillage of innocent blood is dripping from their hands.

 

I shall not say if those people will enter paradise or not as it is not my business and only due to Allaah to make that call but I detest such kind of acts and collective persecutions.

 

I remember when the Zionists entered a refugee camp Yoonis something I believe there was a outcry that it was a unjust collective perseuction by the zionists to bulldoze whole homes for the sake of few men. I totally agree but we're muslims and we shall not act inappriopately or unjustly because if we do, we will become much worser than the kuffar themselves and Allaah will not aid us because Allaah does not aid the unjust] sinners nor does he aid the unjust transgressors and people that commit unjust and unislamic acts.

 

I comment brother MC Xamar for his patience, real knowledge and judgement on this matter and that in fact he has a lot of patience with the dealings of his fellow brothers who are accusing him of something that he does not favour or is in support of. Many muslims participiate in the 'killings' of their follow muslim brothers indirectly by paying taxes that are used to make new laws that are not in agreement with islamic teachings or that are used for the army to equip itself with bullets that will eventually {probably} kill a fellow muslim brother or sister but we do not know for sure. Clearly we're daily challenged with enorm paradoxes but we shall try to safeguard our religion and have it in our heart and intention to not stay in those kaafirs lands for any second longer than necessary and actually requires. In short let's examine our priorities because clearly there's something wrong and let's correct it before we become 'careless' and lose focus of the situation and thus our belief, culture and language.

[Cara.]

Trust some people to use every topic (no matter how tragic) as a platform to espouse racism or qabiilism.

 

People like Taliban and Alle Ubaahne will not accept someone has sincerely converted to Islam unless they agree to go on a special mission involving explosives.

[Taliban]

Originally posted by MC Xamar:

P.S. You talk a lot about the "responsibilities of a Muslim in the west", but you have failed to mention where you live? I don't see why you would have a problem in disclosing that information, seeing as you're not a "fake mullah", right?

I haven't failed to mention where I live; I wasn't asked. If this is about a tit-for-tat of you're also a citizen of the West, then it's not how it works. I didn't say I am not a "fake mullah"; I said I don't know whether I am one or not, as only those who know me can tell. Check again the comment where I said that.

 

Originally posted by Cara:

People like Taliban and Alle Ubaahne will not accept someone has sincerely converted to Islam unless they agree to go on a special mission involving explosives.

I didn't know MC Xamar is a convert. The comments I have exchanged with MC Xamar have nothing to do with being a convert.

[Baluug]

Originally posted by Taliban:

quote:Originally posted by MC Xamar:

P.S. You talk a lot about the "responsibilities of a Muslim in the west", but you have failed to mention where you live? I don't see why you would have a problem in disclosing that information, seeing as you're not a "fake mullah", right?

I haven't failed to mention where I live; I wasn't asked. If this is about a tit-for-tat of

you're also a citizen of the West

, then it's not how it works. I didn't say I am not a "fake mullah"; I said I don't know whether I am one or not, as only those who know me can tell. Check again the comment where I said that.

I was just referring to the other thread where you were asked that question. So let's try this again. Where do you live? I know your location says "From:JIS" meaning Jamhurriyada Islaamiga ee Soomaaliya(think I spelled that right). I just wanna know, that's all.

[Taliban]

Originally posted by MC Xamar:

I was just referring to the other thread where you were asked that question. So let's try this again. Where do you live? I know your location says "From:JIS" meaning Jamhurriyada Islaamiga ee Soomaaliya(think I spelled that right). I just wanna know, that's all.

I don't recall the other thread, and don't see what another thread got to do with this one. At this time, I don't see the relevancy of revealing where I live. I shall reveal it when I see it relevant to reveal, insha'Allah.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Cara:

Trust some people to use every topic (no matter how tragic) as a platform to espouse racism or qabiilism.

 

People like Taliban and Alle Ubaahne will not accept someone has sincerely converted to Islam unless they agree to go on a special mission involving explosives.

Dear Ayaan Xirsi, I can understand your frustrations, but are you trying here to convert people in your athiest believes? If my memory serves me well, you had a doubt in the existance of Allah and debated with Sh. Nur about it to know any evidences to believe in God!

 

You never get tired of loving those who kill our people and downlook their rights. I still find a foreigner in your tone!

[Jacpher]

^Hijack the thread now to athiest vs qabiil-ubaahne, that's who you represent right now.

 

Talib, MC Xamar has a point there. He's Muslim Canadian and you're not in a position to judge him with responsibilities of past and present governments.

[Dhubad.]

Taliban, brov cool down a bit. No One Can Carry Another Person’s Sin as stated in the Quran. So I don't see brother MC Xamar responsible anything that the Canadian government did/doing right now, specially when he saying that he hasn't voted for it...!

[Fiqikhayre]

According to some Dhubad some people do carry the burden of other people's sins because they're silent or in support of the sinners. Otherwise if they weren't they would voice their displeasure at them with mass protests hence they ought to be bombed and there is no harm if one martyr explodes himself let's say in the london tube.

 

^That's the logic Tali and some of his friens are following.