The sins of our feminist mothers

[Jacpher]

Baashi, your name says it all. I wonder why you picked it. I like your style of Shukaansi. Dugsi inaad noo furtid waaye sxb. Just kidding.

 

You know lots of Somali men have the same problem. They wait too long and spend their life partying & having a gf/bf relationship with Cadaan and Madoow. They later realize it's time for the them to get a Somali wife so they can children. Give me a break. Our sisters deserve better than this. But the sad thing is that they fly to Somalia and find the beautiful 18 yrs old girl of his tribe. I wonder how could a parent let their daughter be married to someone with that kind of record! Can money manipulate you to sell the future of you daughter/sister? Are we that calooshood u shaqeystaal?

 

Also, Somali men living abroad are increasingly getting frightened to tie the knot. They prefer to do it back home. What do you think this causes?

[Bess.]

Also, Somali men living abroad are increasingly getting frightened to tie the knot. They prefer to do it back home. What do you think this causes?

i think that they have become too jaded and imagine that everyone else living abroad women included has become as deprived as they have...so they can't trust the women of thier area cause they imagine that they are as corrupt as they are....

[Rahima]

Timely article Rahima Virginia Haussegger is mad at feminist poineers but I gotta hunch that some of our late bloomers r mad in everything man Dang! She is right on the money wallahi.

I don’t know about the timeliness of it (for as Kaleidoscopic pointed out we don’t have any middle-age-childless women on this forum-me thinks anyway, but then again we are Somali, reduce every age by 10, so 40 means 30) but it was more of an attempt to discuss whether or not we can have the life of marriage with children as well as pursuing a successful career. I believe it would be fair to say that most of us are either university educated or are in the midst of gaining it-therefore we are faced with this dilemma. Work or housewife for the next 20 years until all the children are independent, or can we have both without feeling that we are neglecting our children or homes?

 

Realistically speaking, can we have a 9-5 job and raise upstanding children? I’m sure we all want our children to excel, to have the best of the best , be the best of the best (or at least as close as possible), upstanding citizens of humanity etc. So can we do all that and pursue a career? Often I wonder and even though I have not had children yet, I think about it so that I can weigh up my options beforehand. Like all people I have plans for this short life, to as they say live life to the fullest. Whilst I respect housewives and believe that it is probably the hardest job in the world (apparently equal to two full-time jobs), I’m not sure if I can do it for too long of a period. I mean I’ve spent so many years gaining an education, at the very least I hope to utilize it. We can perhaps argue it would be beneficial to educate our children, and sure, but a high school diploma is enough for that.

 

So many questions come up and so many matters to contemplate. I think of these matters now for I don’t want to get myself in a situation where it will hit me with a blow that will knock me senseless. So before Baashi and Kaleidoscopic desecrated the topic :mad: with their hook-up exchange (ever heard of pm folks? :rolleyes: ), this was an attempt for us as “educated†sisters to discuss matters of concern to us and perhaps pass on experiences &/or information to one another to ease this transition (which is inevitable).

 

mizz_S.lander

 

Rahima alhamdullilah is not having to face that problem , but just a quick question, a live in nanny? What’s the point of working then? You’re only paying her wage at the end of the week.

 

This is the other thing I worry somewhat about. Finding suitable and trustworthy childcare-I don’t know if I can trust my children in the hands of non-Muslims or even weak Muslims. Like I said, I hope to instill in them Islamic morals and beliefs that will last a life time and to make sure they become strong Muslims rather than some of the weak-gaalo-following Muslims we have today.

 

I would give up everything to raise children, but is it possible to have both and if so how would that work?

 

Can we have it all or is it an elusion? I have specific plans about work, further education,family, financial stability etc(to the point that i think at times it scares my family and friends) so i often wonder, can i realistically achieve it without comprimising my children?

 

Sometimes it's so hard being a woman!

[Valenteenah.]

Sigh.

 

That dirty F-word again.

 

How many times has feminism been discussed (always negatively)?

 

To be honest, I don't even know what the word means anymore. But I do know one thing, NOBODY will hand you anything, not one damned blessed thing, on a silver platter, even if you want nothing but your GOD-GIVEN rights. Therefore, you MUST struggle for the things you want, whatever they maybe. Thats how it works.

 

Now where does feminism come into it? As a clever someone put it, its about:

 

"Everyone one of you [students] walking out that door, graduating, and leading a life where your gender doesn't determine your salary, your welfare, your health care, or your safety."

 

And there's no reason why that has to be at the expense of anybody else either. There no reason to hate men, just because you want to live your life as a human being.

 

But obviously we all have different ideas of what its about.

 

And before the testosterone-laden contingency foam at the mouth and attemp to jump on my throat, I would like to point out that, I don't consider myself a feminist at all. :cool:

[- Femme -]

I do not understand why people constantly link working women with being lesbian feminists or bitter old spinisters. In this country and in this time many women have no choice. And some families require the income of two to survive and/or meet their basic needs. So please stop splattering us with that BS.

 

Now...in relating this article to us somali women, the issue i find is not in feminism...but in time management. Why do people continously limit themselves to only two choices? If you dedicated a number of years in earning your education---you shouldn't be worrying about having a career or family. I believe with a bit of thinking & comprimising with your partner you can have and manage both. Successfully? I wouldn't know.

 

What about spacing your children? I mean seriously? You do not have to push out a kid every year...make use of the resources available. You can still work to your hearts content when your kids go off to gradeschool. They will not be deprived of anything...or work part time while you have your mother babysit your kid. Thats what extended family is for. I mean there are so many different options available if one really thinks about it.

[Miriam1]

Interesting topic.

I just wanted to comment on one thing Rahima said about, the use of an university degree when someone would choose to be a homemaker. The degree is for you. I really believe that university is a experience. Yes I would like to work utlizing this degree I spend endless hours trying to get. But I would never trade in those hours, I enjoyed and It made me different. I am more then I was a few years ago, its not only that I know more, but through the difficulty of attaining that degree, dealing with ppl in power(horrid professours) and everything that comes with going to a big university everyday. I truly have to say it added alot to me as a person ! and if i can bring that to relationship and teach my children not only the basics of math or science I can actually be an example of what a true choice is.

Dreamer.

On spacing the time between having your children is sooooooo important for our people. Every child needs his or her own time with his parents. Having 4 kids all between the ages of 6 and under is wack !

On daycare...honeslty i had live in filipino maids all my life..back when....i cannot say the experience was negative. But I would have preffered my mother to be there, no matter who the person is or how good they are, they are simply strangers. and daycares in this european world is simply scary. IF you can AFFORD IT stay home....your kids will truly appreciate it. IF not...its very important that you leave them in the care of family, or muslim people.

 

my two cents

[Rahima]

Dreamer,

 

And some families require the income of two to survive and/or meet their basic needs. So please stop splattering us with that BS.

I’m not exactly sure where that was directed, but if you noticed the article appeared in an Australian newspaper and the writer is an Australian woman. Generally speaking, here in Australia, one income is more than enough to meet the basic needs of an average family. We have many advantages as compared to many other countries, free education, health care, numerous sorts of government financial assistance, so basically the other income is not necessary, it is more of a choice. The case of course would not be the same had there not been a choice.

 

Here, women work to either progress their own careers and climb the corporate ladder or to have the small luxuries of life-it is not a matter of necessity.

 

Successfully? I wouldn't know.

That sister was the sticking point of the discussion. We can manage quiet a lot in life, but as far as career and children are concerned, success is the path some of us want to follow. Like I said, the goal is to have that great career and raise upstanding children. Sure there are many options, but this was meant to be a discussion where we could explore the pros and cons of these, not to mention decide if that ever-so elusive success factor is attainable without feeling a sense of guilt.

 

What about spacing your children?

Wonderful (I'm sure we have all thought of that), how long (3 years between children perhaps)? We are bound by the tenets and beliefs of Islam, there are restrictions that come into play and for those of us who care it is once again another hurdle. We can argue the points of part-time work and working when the children finally reach grade school but the former is not a way to succeed career wise (which was a goal as stated) and the latter is not feasible for the reason that more than likely one will always have a child under the age of gradeschooling because of the religious restrictions (until of course we most probably reach the age of 40).

 

Extended family is also wonderful, but who is willing to look after your children five days a week, eight hours a day? My mother for example is in her early 40s; she is still working full-time and living her life. It would be tremendously unfair of me to expect her to stay home to raise my children when she raised me. Basically this is not Somalia where we can rely on extended family to look after our offspring. Some of us are lucky perhaps who have stay-at-home mothers but not all.

 

I mean there are so many different options available if one really thinks about it.

There are, and like I said this was nothing more than an attempt to have a meaningful discussion on our options and possible pass on different experiences and information to one another, not a debate on feminism or the like.

 

Jawaahir,

 

In all honesty, university for me is nothing more than a stepping stone to get me to what I believe is a better stage of life. Knowledge is not gained by the four walls of a university institution, fun might be, but we can gain that sort of knowledge in various ways but unfortunately it is not recognized, which is why we are bound in this way. If my chosen career path did not require a university education, I certainly would not bother with such a debt.

 

On daycare...honeslty i had live in filipino maids all my life..back when....i cannot say the experience was negative

Here in Australia we have a new program where women can do day-care within their homes and get paid for it by the state government. Many Somali women gain some extra cash this way and so far seems like the only feasible form of childcare for us over here.

 

I personally would not trust my children with non-Muslims or in the mainstream childcare centers where often the children are neglected.

 

At the end of the day, if the choice comes down to the proper upringing of my children or pursuing a successful career, it is a no brainer. But can we have both and if so how?

[Final_Say]

salamz

 

rahima:

 

it is possible to have a job and a family without doing one or the other badly; personally i would not work if i knew that meant i wz not being a good mother; in fact i would take off a couple of years (dats at least 10 ) to have kids and look after them to age where they are at school for half day or full time and then u can work ur working hours around them!! but it is hard and there will always be something missing

 

i grew up wid my brother and mum single mum and she worked frm when i wz 5 and my brother wz 9, but she worked while we were at school and when we got home she wz dere cookin and and all, but she wz often tired and over worked; but we both (me and my bro, turned out fine; with the exception of baby somali at old age!)

so it can be done. but you have to be committed and hard workin;

 

either way it depends on the job, flexibility, and stress level

 

salamz

[-Serenity-]

Women do not have to sacrifice personhood if they are mothers. They do not have to sacrifice motherhood in order to be persons. Liberation was meant to expand women's opportunities, not to limit them. The self-esteem that has been found in new pursuits can also be found in mothering - Elaine Heffner

[- Femme -]

Rahima walaal...discard the first paragraph...I was in a bad mood and was not directing that at anyone in particular.

 

With the success comment...I meant that since each women's life experience, circumstances, and choices are different one woman's success could be regarded as another's failure and deprivatrion of her children and loss of her family.