Does sharing DNA guarantee loyalty love?

[Baluug]

PI ,I think you missed my point.We all have to meet our Lord, the Most High,one day,and it won't be pretty insha Allah if you knowingly concealed a horrendous crime,even if your own mother did it.Do you think your mother will help you on the day of Qiyaamah?She'll have her own problems on that day and will maybe even turn against you.So if that were to happen(a family member committing a crime and I knew about it),I would most definitely turn them in.It would be better for both of us in the long run because if you think nobody knows what happened except for you and your relative,well Allah SWT knows everything.Don't worry about the black people in jail,worry about yourself.Most of them wouldn't help you in any situation anyways.If it were an accident,like the example you put forth,your mother still needs to pay the diyah,so there's no excuse to hide in any case.

[Goonle]

Originally posted by Zephyrine:

Femme

,

 

Why do you think Somalis who commit vicious crimes are always speedily sent back home? Family-ties and justice apparently don't have anything to do with each other.

 

Even a man who rapes his own relative (same DNA/same family) will get the same protection. Makes you think, doesn't it?

Do i sense here that youre insinuating that rape is a common thing in our society?

[Sincere]

Originally posted by Haddad

In the US, the one who is hiding a relative who commited a crime, or helps him/her get away, cannot be prosecuted or punished. I would think Canada has a similar law

Errm... Aiding and Abetting is serious charge that carries a sentence, and this includes white-collar crimes as well.

 

On the issue: I agree with FF, were all morally obligated to uphold our part, but the question ought be can you live with your decision. If you happen to turn in your "wanted" cousin whose got an APB out on him, how much would that weigh on your conscience? Personally I wouldnt do it, nor would I help him in any shape, form, or fashion other than giving him sound advice to turn himself in. You reap what you sow, no shortcuts in life.

[Jacpher]

This reminds me of something that goes like this....Gar iyo gardaro u gargaar walaalkaa. I think that was one of the pre-Islamic sayings that the prophet scw approved of.

 

May Allah forbid this but it all depends on the situation. Turning your family in to a system that's full of errors, misconceptions, misjudgments and corruption isn't the right solution. Helping the guilty to escape isn't a better choice either. The dilemma is which is the lesser evil? I think there isn't any doubt that our faith teaches us to adhere and obey the rules of the land we choose to live in so long they aren't contrary to our belief. The real question is what happens to you loved ones if they found guilty and sent prison? Prison might seem the right thing to do or a payback to you but we know it causes a great deal of torment and a severe mental anguish.

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Goonle:

Do i sense here that youre insinuating that rape is a common thing in our society?

It is relatively common. As common as in any other community, I suppose.

 

 

Zephrine,

I know. Some people really are confused and have a whacky sense of loyalty. You havent answered my question. What would YOU do? (I keep thinking....would I put my own mother/father/sibling/child behind bars? Am I capable of that? Or is it all talk at the end?)

Femme,

 

Mother/father/sibling/child...the most important people in your life. How easy would it be to turn them in? But I would. If I knew 100% that they committed the crime and that they had no intention of owning up, I would most definitely turn them in. I couldn't live with myself otherwise. Couldn't look at them either.

 

Probably the safest place for them would be in jail anyway, because I would want to cause them as much pain and grief as possible for doing something that evil and destroying their own as well as their families' lives.

 

But talk is cheap, as you well know.

[NGONGE]

Femme,

 

It was a joke, m’dear.

 

On this issue, I’m inclined to pass you the reigns and watch you argue this position on our behalf, for we are many but no, we’re not the silent majority.

 

What is your take on torture? Are there any circumstances where you think torture might be acceptable?

[- Femme -]

Ducaqabe,

 

Prison might seem the right thing to do or a payback to you but we know it causes a great deal of torment and a severe mental anguish.

Excuse me? Isn't that the whole point of locking them up? For them to experience the punishment...mentally, emotionally & physically? I'd hate for a person to go to prison and enjoy it. Prison is not a luxury retreat to escape to. I mean...that would just ruin the whole concept of paying for your crimes.

 

Zephrine,

Brave, brave woman. At least talk-wise.

 

Ngonge,

One thing I'm not is obtuse. I knew you were being sarcastic. I choose to ignore it.

 

On the issue of torture...I believe that in some cases its needed & should be used. Although I don't know what Islam says about the subject...If a person is known with certainty that they have commited an unforgivable crime---ex. treason, rape, kidnapping a child, pedophillia, and you want more info...I would say light torture should be used. I dont feel any sympathy for people like that. They deserve what they get.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Femme Fatale:

I would say light torture should be used.

Yeah, like what? Tickle them into a confession?

 

Torture is a no-no for me. Might as well summarily execute them, eh!

[MR ORGILAQE]

One point people your loyalty should be to ALLAH and he is all sear all hearer.Hide them and pay for it in Jahanam.Gaalo or no Gaalo a crime against a human being is a crime against Allah and Allah will punish you for it

[nafta]

Couple of years ago my auntie got murdered in her sleep by her husband. It was about the custody of their son, who he should live and so forth.

 

This happened in Switserland. Anyway, after he robbed her of her life, he fled the scene like the bleeding coward he is and sought refuge in Holland. After a while we (my family), found out that he was staying in the same town as we lived, with a family we (at least my parents) knew very well.

 

The woman apperently was his sister, and she refused countless times to give him up to the authorities. Instead she paid for him a single ticket to Africa.

 

Now, forget about giving him up to the authorities for a second here and think about what he did. He just killed someone, committed the most henious crimes of all. He left a child parentless (the fact that he is still alive doesn't mean anything, he made sure of that when he stabbed his mother repeatedly). He left a family daughterless. He is nothing short of a monster.

 

So the minute you took such a person in your household, you became an accessory to the crime, doesn't matter whether you planned it together, or were present at the scene or even knew about it beforehand. You are making sure he is getting away, unpunished. So what does that make you? As evil as they are.

 

Think about what you are taking into your household. If he killed before, what makes you think he will spare you? Or even worse, what if you have children. Will you still say, "oh it doesn't matter, it's family, blood matters before anything".

 

I would without a doubt haven given them up. When someone commits such a crime, the boundaries have been crossed and it's no longer an insignificant, minor little thing. Things will start to take on a different meaning, and it's what you do about it, that counts at the end.

 

Something obviously made that person snap and reduced them into doing what they did, so what will happen the next time they snap and you're around. Personal Safety first, so consider what you're taking in and dealing with.

 

Somali people have their issues with the laws of the West, no doubt. So therefore, they should look to what the laws of our religion say. Every sort of crime has got its rightful punishment. A life for a life, an arm for a robbery and so forth. They weren't made for nothing. Haddii kale soma'ahan, you chose to live in the west, adhere to their civil laws, haddii kale share a cell with whomever you're harboring.

 

People can change, repent, call it whatever. Let them do that after they've been punished accordingly. Personally, I don't believe anyone can change after they've committed a murder or have raped someone.

 

So, should DNA guarantee Loyalty and Love? No. It shouldn't cloud one's judgement.

 

P.S. I have not read everyone's reply, but some of you left me with my mouth wide open :eek:

[- Femme -]

Im sorry for your loss, Nafta. That was sad and senseless act of cruelty. May he never live in peace...and always look over his shoulder.

 

P.S. Did he take the child with him? I hope not.

[shyhem]

^^^

You seem to be a nice girl, but i'm glad i'm not related to you for i don't want my relative or wife to hand me over to the authorities and have my azz belong to state property.

[StarGazer]

Funny, I was having a similar discussion with mom the other day about family loyalty. She said, the Prophet, SAW, said : "Walaalka uu hiili hadii uu ka gardaranyahay ama hadii laga gardaranyahay".(Excuse my horrible somali writing). You might wonder, what? support my brother in right and in wrong? That's precisely right. When he transgresses against others, you can help him by giving him up to the authorities!!

 

Nafta, walaal I hope your family finds justice in this world.....because I'm for certain that he will get what he deserves in the hereafter.

[nafta]

Femme, Alxamdulilaah he didn't take his son with him. He was spending that night with his grandma, so his mom and dad could work things out.

 

Tamina..Sis, I hope he doesn't find rest on the world as well as the hereafter.

 

 

You seem to be a nice girl, but i'm glad i'm not related to you for i don't want my relative or wife to hand me over to the authorities and have my azz belong to state property.

Well, it's like this. Even if we're not related, I catch ur *** doing something unlawful, I'm still gonna report ur *** and have u thrown in jail. Capiche?

 

:cool:

[Castro]

Originally posted by nafta:

Well, it's like this. Even if we're not related, I catch ur *** doing something unlawful, I'm still gonna report ur *** and have u thrown in jail. Capiche?

Capisce. But Nafta, there are so many circumstances and so many variables that no one thing will apply to the whole premise. It's not about sharing DNA but the situation at hand. What if the person is falsely accused? What if it's you? What if there's a witch hunt? What if, what if, what if?

 

It's easy to dismiss this as black and white. It's more gray than you or I could appreciate. But, it is wrong to harbor someone who knowingly commited a heinous crime such as murder and rape and such. You would have to be certain of their guilt, however. And that certainty is what makes this a slippery slope. Unless you were there yourself. But if you were there, then you either understand the circumstances, were a victim yourself or were an accomplice. And that changes the whole dynamics.

 

This is an issue that is difficult to simplify. And believe or not, I've thought about it since I posted that knee jerk reaction of mine in the beginning.