Marry a guy who delivers pizzas?

[Castro]

"This year approximately 200,000 more women will receive bachelor's degrees than men," Mortenson says. "That means 200,000 women will not find a college-educated husband to marry. Next year there will be 200,000 more, and on and on. Women are being faced with two bad choices: not to marry at all, or marry a guy who delivers pizzas."

 

In a more general sense, he argues that a culture filled with ill-educated, drifting men does not add up to a pretty picture for anyone, including women. Mortenson cites a conversation he had with the president of an historically black college where the female/male ratio had reached the startling figure of five to one. Read the whole article.

 

 

These numbers in the article are in the United States. Any idea what the ratio is in the expatriate Somali communities? What about in Somalia? A father to two girls (with hopes of being a grandfather someday), this is very disturbing indeed. I wonder what it will be like in 20-25 years.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Fidel:

These numbers in the article are in the United States. Any idea what the ratio is in the expatriate Somali communities? What about in Somalia? A father to two girls (with hopes of being a grandfather someday), this is very disturbing indeed. I wonder what it will be like in 20-25 years.

Men outnumber women in the expatriate Somali communities. The men are in high demand for marriage, because they usually prefer women in Somalia. They prefer the humble ones over the sophisticated in the West. Nowadays, the men keep those humble women in Africa (where it's safe in Somalia, Kenya, others) & the Middle East (Syria, Egypt, Yemen, others), less the women become sophisticated if taken to the West. This is for practical purposes; life in Africa & the Middle East is affordable, the women there have less chance to become independent or rebels, and men (even Westerners) usually prefer a docile partner. Women outnumber men in Somalia, where men are always in high demand.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Jomaana:

Is it the lack of motivation ?

Is it the lack of finance? ( We all have this problem)

Is it the system?

Jomaana, the questions you ask are baffling not only to you and me but to everyone worried about the trend. One possible explanation could be that co-education may be the culprit. It has been shown in other studies (Google them if you like) that boys did as well as girls when they were not in mixed schools. In other words, the mixing of the sexes is having an adverse effect on the boys.

 

The study in the article was more towards finding the ratio now and predicting the future trends. And, unlike brother Haddad's docile women theory, this issue is not about what men prefer to make a wife but what is available to educated women as potential husbands. I don't have any numbers to back this up but your observation of Somali women out-numbering their kinsmen is in line with those women of other races and nationalities. The study shows that the trend cuts across all those differences.

 

It occured to me while reading the article that I might pick a young man, through family and friend contacts, and groom that young man to become a college graduate. But I dismissed the idea knowing that even if the guy was smart and hunk numero uno, my daughter would reject him solely because I campaigned for him. What to do?

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Jomaana:

Is it the lack of motivation ?

Is it the lack of finance? ( We all have this problem)

Is it the system?

I think it has to do with employability. Immigrant women are generally preferred to be employed as educated individuals than their male counterparts. I have seen many male immigrants with higher degrees (a few with PhD) who drive a cab or do other jobs that require a lesser or no degree.

Believe it or not..the educated men i see have either a superiority complex, personality problems or there is just something not appealing about them. The uneducated ones have it all BUT the degree. What a dilemma.

A dilemma, indeed. I think, the losers here are the educated women, as they generally stay unmarried way past their prime time. I have seen many who have aged to 40 and beyond.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Haddad:

I think it has to do with employability. Immigrant women are generally preferred to be employed as educated individuals than their male counterparts. I have seen many male immigrants with higher degrees (a few with PhD) who drive a cab or do other jobs that require a lesser or no degree.

 

While lack of employment opportunities for immigrants is a real and documented issue, it is not the point of Mortensen's study. The latter refers to the dwindling numbers of boys and men in higher education. Immigrants or not. Whites, blacks, Somalis, asians or what have you. That's the point of the study.

 

A

dilemma

, indeed. I think, the losers here are the educated women, as they generally stay unmarried way past their prime time. I have seen many who have aged to 40 and beyond.

You're on topic now but only half right. The loser here are not just educated women but society as a whole. Unlike problems faced by minorities and other smaller groups, this particular issue affects fully 50% of every society. And when 50% of any society has a problem, 100% of that society has a problem. Hopefully this has made it a little clearer for you Haddad. I hope you've followed the link to read the article and are not just elevating my blood pressure.

[FatB]

:laugh:

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Fidel:

I hope you've followed the link to read the article and are not just elevating my blood pressure.

To be frank, I didn't click the link, and I am not sure I will.

[bilan]

i think as a father you're right to be concerned fidel. but what are you doing about it, so that your little girls will not have to choose between somali guy who delivers pizzas or marrying outside of their race.

i beg to difer haddad not all men are obsessesed with controling,i know a lot of men who are not insecure and are not afraid to marry 'sophisticated woman'. i do not know where you get the idea that women back home are not independent or less sophisticated. majority of the women in smalia do work, and they are more independent than those in the west, they do not put up a lot of things that women in the west do. if you think that somali man from the west can go back home and women there will treat him as si sayid, then you have not been in somalia lately, go there things have changed.

i do not know wether women outnumber men or not in somali communities in the west, but i know for sure that both sides complain about not finding someone that they can understand. while i did not do any research, it seems obvious that more somali women go to college than men at least in my city. when i went to college there were 9 girls and two boys.it is really sad to see young men wasting their lives.

as a single college graduate woman i did not go to college for 5 years so i can live in government housing, and bad neighborhood, so no i would not marry the guy who delivers pizzas,unless he is willing to go back to college,and i do not think a lot of women will settle with a guy who delivers pizzas.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Haddad:

To be frank, I didn't click the link, and I am not sure I will.

Well, looking at your responses, you either read the article and misunderstood it, or, you didn't read the article and was ready to give your opinions on other non-related topics.

 

If I may ask, why will you not read the article? Does it conflict with your pre-existing beliefs about women and education? Do you think ignoring such studies, and reality, would make them go away?

[Haddad]

Originally posted by bilan:

not all men are obsessesed with controling

You're implying men have controling powers. Years ago, while visiting a friend at Dixon, I remember him telling me about his friend of good character who was ordered by a court to not come within 50 miles radius of where his wife & kids live. No, he was a complete innocent, and his heart was broken over the issue. I wonder about this friend of my friend, and what become of him.

Originally posted by Fidel:

Does it conflict with your pre-existing beliefs about women and education? Do you think ignoring such studies, and reality, would make them go away?

Maybe for the first question. Thinking doesn't make go away anything, except thoughts inside a thinker's mind. So are studies, and reality. It's solutions that could make go away something.

[Castro]

Originally posted by bilan:

i think as a father you're right to be concerned fidel. but what are you doing about it, so that your little girls will not have to choose between somali guy who delivers pizzas or marrying outside of their race.

Bilan, this is a problem that would require more than one person's solution. I hope and pray it is reversed now before it's too late.

 

And being the universal problem that it is becoming, my kids won't have to choose between the proverbial pizza delivery guy or a different race as other races are facing the same problem. This here is truly choosing between a rock and a hard place.

[rudy-Diiriye]

well, our community thinks that just cuz u have a highly expensive piece of paper from a dogmatic

institution, that u all that and moo!

 

but thats not reality...most high rollers in this world are uni dropouts or never set foot in a class room!!

 

u must know by now that life is luck, effort and alot of hard work...! rest is nothing but a slap on the shoulder.....

[bilan]

haddad i am not saying all men have controling problem, actually i said not all men have controlling problem,it is you who said men are going back because women back home are less independent.

Fidel i am sure chinese and indian women do not have these problems, atleast those that are in the west, and whites, since they are the majority they have a better chance finding college educated man, but somalis they are only few thousands so we feel the impact more than other races. i think there is a solution, but we need to put time and money. since i was freshman in college i had this idea, i do not know if i will ever do it, but i really wish someone will do it. it is if educated somalis in each city have one organization, and each member of the organization adopts accedemically few somali kids who are in middle and high schools, helps them with homeworks, and shows them that they(students) can be successful bussiness people, teachers, doctors and lawyers etc. and when its time for college they(person who adopted them) will help them apply,and choose the right college then this kids will have other role models to follow other than their family members who are collecting welfare. problem with somali community is that their educated children do not want to give back to the community with the exception of few.

 

Rudy, if you are white then maybe one day you can be Bill Gates and Micheal Dell, but if you're non-white and no college degree then no one will open the door for you, college degree opens the door.

[Endeavour]

Originally posted by Haddad:

quote:Originally posted by Fidel:

These numbers in the article are in the United States. Any idea what the ratio is in the expatriate Somali communities? What about in Somalia? A father to two girls (with hopes of being a grandfather someday), this is very disturbing indeed. I wonder what it will be like in 20-25 years.

Men outnumber women

in the expatriate Somali communities

. The men are in high demand for marriage, because they usually prefer women in Somalia. They prefer the humble ones over the sophisticated in the West. Nowadays, the men keep those humble women in Africa (where it's safe in Somalia, Kenya, others) & the Middle East (Syria, Egypt, Yemen, others), less the women become sophisticated if taken to the West. This is for practical purposes; life in Africa & the Middle East is affordable, the women there have less chance to become independent or rebels, and men (even Westerners) usually prefer a docile partner. Women outnumber men in Somalia, where men are always in high demand.

Haddad from the above statements you have told me somali men are indeed threaten by an educated sister why? because she is simply sophisticated and a Somali men cant keep supporting her in west hence why he keeps her in Africa.

 

 

Its seems to be there is this great misunderstanding from our brothers side. A sophisticated sister equals a women who cant be controled well hate to break it to my dear brothers but that is not the case. Unless the men that go back home to secure a docile wife are those that are less educated than your average educated somali sister.

Well if that is the case I was never going to bother with a guy less educated than I. I have seen countless marriages where sisters are more educated than the man and as usual they have all ended up in divorce. This is due to the extreme jealousy that men exhibit.

 

 

Question? Can a sister not be sophisticated and humble at the sametime? Is there a rule that says the two cant go together?

 

 

Back to topic I would rather become wife number two than marry a pizza guy but if he is pious I will be as nice to over look in his deficiency.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by bilan:

Rudy, if you are white then maybe one day you can be Bill Gates and Micheal Dell, but if you're non-white and no college degree then no one will open the door for you, college degree opens the door.

Not necessarily. This might to a degree apply in the West, but there are many successes in Africa, the Middle East and elsewhere where a degree played no role whatsoever. It's possible that you have/had a relative without a degree who is/was a successful businessman.

Originally posted by Endeavour:

Can a sister not be sophisticated and humble at the sametime? Is there a rule that says the two dont go together?

Part of being sophisticated is about acquiring a certain lifestyle, a set of standards, expectations, auras & arias. I believe a sister can be sophisticated Islamically (manners & education), and be humble at the sametime.