RIP King Fahad!

[Warrior of Light]

Inallillah wainaillahi rajiun. Admired the way the burial was done with no pomp and strictly Islamic.

[Jacpher]

Fahad was a Muslim leader that passed away just like other Muslim leaders. I don't know how he's different than Sheikh Al Nahyan or Carafaat. They’re all alike. They supported Muslim and non-Muslims alike.

 

What I don't get is the reason the media kept focusing the burial aspect of the funeral. They kept repeating these terms, Wahabi sect of Islam requires that he be buried just like others and not lowering of the flag. They seemed to be creating division in their reporting which is disgusting.

[Warrior of Light]

^Yes, agree with you was disgusted with the mentioning of the Wahabis and the way Dr. Zaki Badawi was answering questions. Im glad though they mentioned the reason why the Saudi flag couldnt hang half post.

[Kashafa]

If you were put today in the position of the Saudi king, how would you impose on applying Shari"ah and defense of Islam? Be realistic.

It's not too hard. Not when you have hundreds of billions of dollars just laying around waiting to be spent. The means are there, the people are there, the religous establishment is there. Righteous leadership ? Nope. Pan-Islamic out-look ? Maya. Honor, Integrity, and Testicular fortitude ? Fuggedaboutit

 

 

Fahad was a Muslim leader that passed away just like other Muslim leaders. I don't know how he's different than Sheikh Al Nahyan or Carafaat. They’re all alike. They supported Muslim and non-Muslims alike

Well, what's the common denominator of these great leaders ? All died with more than 10 billion Doolaar Amreekii(estimate) gathering dust in private accounts in Swiss Banks. Arafat's case is more despicable; he prostituted the Palestinian cause and grew fat off it. Brings a whole new meaning to "Low-Life".

 

.And maybe Allah SWT will forgive your sins for holding your tongue.

I take no pleasure in villifying already dead villians. But let's not get amnesia after they die. One of the root causes of our demise as an Ummah is rotten leadership. To expose and criticize them is an obligation.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

It's not too hard. Not when you have hundreds of billions of dollars just laying around waiting to be spent. The means are there, the people are there, the religous establishment is there.

It's too hard. You have the US intelligence, military & other institutions that are too entrenched in Saudis & their country. How do you bypass that?

[Kashafa]

^^ Is that a trick question ? It's called a national uprising/revolution/kick the infidel out. Easier said than done you might say, but it's been done successfully before.

 

It all boils down to bold leadership. Faisal brought Uncle Sam to his knees in '73 with the oil embargo. The Saudi people can still kick the monkey off their collective backs.

[Foxy]

Haddad....are the royal family paying you to defend them.....just a kiddin

 

Isn’t only fair to ask ourselves why…Torture, public beheadings and gender discrimination are the regular practice of the state apparatus run by the Saudi royal family in the Good name of Islamic Shari’ah.

While far from the political unrest and terrorist threats, far from a faltering economy where one out of three men are unemployed,(This mainly due to the fact that Saudi Arabia's young population has nearly tripled since 1980's since they marry more than 1 wife and have shit laods of kids). Far from a country under strict Islamic law, some of the richest and most powerful Saudi royals were flying on private jets, and dining at the finest restaurants on the French Riviera, buying expensive yachts and European cars; they have long been rumored to host wild parties with alcohol and prostitutes………………….....(not that I am here to judge what they do behind closed doors just merely pointing out the flaws of the regime).

 

They say King Fahd and the 5,000 or so members of the Saudi royal family live in conditions of fantastic luxury, based on the billions they have made from the country's oil wealth, while the country continues to face serious long-term economic challenges, This contrasts sharply to life in their own kingdom; Saudi Arabia's Orwellian commission for the prevention of vice and the promotion of virtue monitors Saudi citizens for any violation of Sharia law.

This only proves that Oppression in Saudi Arabia is not due to Islamic values, but strictly imposed by the royal family to serve their interests while on throne…….. Simply I see them as morally corrupt and hypocritical royal family.

 

So I stand by my point they can all burn in hell…….

 

cheers.....

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

Well, what's the common denominator of these great leaders ? All died with more than 10 billion Doolaar Amreekii(estimate) gathering dust in private accounts in Swiss Banks. Arafat's case is more despicable; he prostituted the Palestinian cause and grew fat off it. Brings a whole new meaning to "Low-Life".

 

Though I believe this to be yet another of those pointless discussions. Pointless because it really leads nowhere and sheds no new light on the rule of King Fahad. It’s the same old allegations really. They might be wrong and they might be right. The man is dead and one can’t fathom why this argument is still raging on or what those “debating†hope to achieve.

 

Still, when clear lack of knowledge is being displayed and thoughtless comments are being made one becomes obliged to shed some light and censor some Nomads for shooting their mouths of without thinking. I’m talking about the case of Yassir Arafat. It’s alleged that he “prostituted the Palestinian cause and grew fat off itâ€. These are strong allegations. They’re also what the Zionists have been peddling for the past thirty years. Still, for a fat, rich man is it not curious that he spent the last two years of his life imprisoned in his own compound? Is it not curious that in all his years of association with the Palestinian cause one could not spot any visible signs of wealth on the man? The same old Khaki uniform and scarf were worn at all times! Is it not even more curious that instead of dying a normal rich man’s death, he was poisoned?

 

Below is a previous SOL discussion about Arafat. Go and educate yourself.

 

Was he better than Mandela?

[Taqwa]

To expose and criticize them is an obligation.

Leave the dead!!

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

...but it's been done successfully before.

Example?

Originally posted by Foxy-brown:

So I stand by my point they can all burn in hell

How do you mean by can? can gives them a choice to burn in hell; do they have that choice?

[Kashafa]

Though I believe this to be yet another of those pointless discussions. Pointless because it really leads nowhere and sheds no new light on the rule of King Fahad. It’s the same old allegations really. They might be wrong and they might be right. The man is dead and one can’t fathom why this argument is still raging on or what those “debating†hope to achieve

From Western apologist to defender of dictators' honour and legacy ? Quite a U-turn.

 

The man may be dead. His legacy isn't. The fact that he has $25 billion of the Saudi people's money isn't an allegation. It's a reality. Ditto the torture stories, partial application of Shari'ah(depending on your socioeconomic level), or his lackeydom to the West. Explain all that objectively, or find a new taghoot to defend.

 

 

These are strong allegations. They’re also what the Zionists have been peddling for the past thirty years. Still, for a fat, rich man is it not curious that he spent the last two years of his life imprisoned in his own compound? Is it not curious that in all his years of association with the Palestinian cause one could not spot any visible signs of wealth on the man? The same old Khaki uniform and scarf were worn at all times! Is it not even more curious that instead of dying a normal rich man’s death, he was poisoned?

Finally joined the ranks of the conspiracy theorists you so vehemently used to decry, eh. Or is it a easy way to bolster your Islamic "credentials"

 

Ok, my language was a bit strong, but how else do you explain holing away billions of dollars marked for the development of Palestine into private accounts ? Billions of dollars that could take care of , say, the sewage running the streets of Rammalah. As for his clothing style, when one is a aging former crack commando, one must keep up appearences. Nothing says international sympathy better than being surrounded by Israeli tanks. Don't fall for the superficial.

[NGONGE]

Kashafa,

 

As I said, the first part of this discussion does not concern me and is pointless. I shall happily accept all your labels: Western apologist, tyrant defender, taghoot defender and seeker of Islamic credentials. One would not expect anything less from one that defames the dead.

 

But, I return to the blatantly ignorant allegations about Arafat that you refuse to retract. Where are those millions of dollars? Why did he not use them in all his time as the leader of his people? Why did the Palestinians NEVER reject him (this includes Hamas, Al Aqsa Brigade and all those that still call for an armed struggle)? Have you followed this “corrupt†man’s history? The prisons he was thrown in? The battles that he won? The humiliations he endured in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and countless other places? The sacrifices he made?

 

As for the Israeli tanks, let us not rewrite recent history so hastily (you might have been too young for all the other events but this one at least you should have been old enough to witness). The Israelis held him prisoner in that compound for TWO YEARS. Surely a corrupt man would not lock himself up in one room for that long JUST for International sympathy!

 

Don’t be childish saaxib and know when you’ve made a mistake.

 

Let me drop a bit of Shakespeare your way, saaxib. When Caesar was killed by the conspirators (the et tu Brute fame), Mark Anthony was given the chance to talk to the crowd in defence of Caesar. By this time, Brutus has already spoken to the mob and convinced them that he killed Caesar in the name of the Republic (It’s not that I loved Caesar less, I loved Rome more..etc). Anthony gets up on the podium and delivers an unforgettable tribute that turns the crowd against Brutus and the rest of the assassins! Your accusations of Arafat reminded me of that Speech (you probably will not get the point, but it would be enough if you enjoy the speech alone, if you can). The Bard at his finest:

 

 

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

The evil that men do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones;

So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus

Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:

If it were so, it was a grievous fault,

And grievously hath Caesar answer'd it.

Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest -

For Brutus is an honourable man;

So are they all, all honourable men -

Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral.

He was my friend, faithful and just to me:

But Brutus says he was ambitious;

And Brutus is an honourable man.

He hath brought many captives home to Rome

Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:

Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?

When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:

Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:

Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;

And Brutus is an honourable man.

You all did see that on the Lupercal

I thrice presented him a kingly crown,

Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?

Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;

And, sure, he is an honourable man.

I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,

But here I am to speak what I do know.

You all did love him once, not without cause:

What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him?

O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,

And men have lost their reason. Bear with me;

My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,

And I must pause till it come back to me.

William Shakespeare - Julius Caesar

Source

[Kashafa]

As I said, the first part of this discussion does not concern me and is pointless. I shall happily accept all your labels: Western apologist, tyrant defender, taghoot defender and seeker of Islamic credentials. One would not expect anything less from one that defames the dead

As for the labels I sent your way, I'm only reflecting my impressions after reading your posts. Surely, you can agree that one is held accountable for one's writing. My fault if they don't accurately protray you.

 

Like I said earlier, I take no pleasure in villyfying dead villians, but I can't stand by and watch history get whitewashed by all those "rest-in-peace" salutations. As if a fair and noble monarch passed away instead of a vicious tyrant. A man makes his reputation by his deeds. Don't cry defamation when I point those deeds out.

 

 

But, I return to the blatantly ignorant allegations about Arafat that you refuse to retract. Where are those millions of dollars?

Here and I said billions...not millions. Get ur facts straight. (please don't discredit CBSNEWS as a right-wing zionist mouth-piece. This is, after all, the CBS of Dan Rather)

 

Why did he not use them in all his time as the leader of his people?

I don't know. I woulda said ask him, were he still alive, but since he's not, allow me to engage in pure speculation: "umm maybe he didn't want the Palestinians to see that he was growing rich thanks to their suffering"

 

Why did the Palestinians NEVER reject him (this includes Hamas, Al Aqsa Brigade and all those that still call for an armed struggle)?

Still at history white-washing, I see. "Hamas, Al Aqsa Brigade and all those that still call for an armed struggle" rejected him time and again. Get educated by a Hamas dude here

 

Have you followed this “corrupt†man’s history? The prisons he was thrown in? The battles that he won? The humiliations he endured in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and countless other places? The sacrifices he made?

Don't get it twisted. You're as good as your last game. I'm not concerned with what Arafat was. I'm concerned with what Arafat has become. Even you can tell the diffenrence between the two.

 

Let me help(it's a difficult concept)

 

Example: Malcom X started out as a pimp, burgaler, drug-dealer, and atheist feared by many.

Malcolm X became a Muslim, a Father, and a Shaheed respected by all.

 

 

Some say Arafat was on the CIA payroll. Some say he was a traitor to the cause. I'm not interested in opinions and theories. Gimme tangible facts. And the facts say that this was a man who may have started out sincere but later on in his life benifitted masssively from his people plight. It's not only him, it includes his fellow PLO members that are busy building splendid villas while the very people they're supposedly representing, stay poor. I have no respect for such men. Even when they're dead. They had no honour in life, and they have none when six foot under.

 

Try and come up with specifics next time. Spare me another opinionated sermon.

[NGONGE]

^^^

Try and come up with specifics next time. Spare me another opinionated sermon.

The specifics should come from you, saaxib. After all, you’re the one “exposing†him!

 

Still, I shall not engage in this pointless exercise in the defamation of the dead anymore. I’ve given you more than enough to plant seeds of doubts in your adamant and stubborn skull. Some of it should get you to wonder if you were wrong in your assessments and rethink your words (one hopes, we are talking about the dead after all).

 

You have no conclusive evidence for your disparaging words. Until you provide such evidence, I’ll humbly request that you cease your slandering of the dead.

Here are a few more links for your education:

 

 

Read this

 

Read this

 

Still reading?

 

Don't stop now

 

Almost there

 

Not long to go now

 

Not CNN, BBC or CBS

 

** End of opinionated Sermon **

[Emperor]

Inaa Lilaahi Wa'inaa ilayhi raaji'uun

 

Im sure he did a lot of good things, and its time worth mentioning his good deeds rathert than the bad one's

 

Ilaahay ha unaxariisto.