I vote for the destruction of Iran and its Shia proxies in the middle east.

[galbeedi]

The Shia militia sponsored from Hizbullah, Iran, Iraq and all the way from Afghanistan and Pakistan had wreaked havoc in the middle east from Syria to Iraq and Yemen. 

 

They started their war in Iraq to oust a dictator, Saddam Hussein. Since then their ain is not about freedom but sectarian hegemony in the middle east. While they were justified in their opposition and fighting of Sunni members of the Ba'ath party of Saddam Hussein , they are willing to die to the last blood to protect another Ba'ath party dictator in Syria, Bashar Assad.

 

We are all aware of the emergence of ISIS and other Sunni outlets like Al-qaeda  and their zeal to destroy Shia and others without mercy. In fact, that fight against ISIS had emboldened the Shia groups to use that cover and destroy Sunni communities in the middle east. In Syria, the early uprising against Assad was as popular as any uprising in the world trying free themselves from a tyrant. Yet, immediately, the minor but active extremists like Jabhat Nusra and others took the limelight. The western media discouraged the American government from helping the rebels. 

 

"Why would you  destroy a bloody dictator and replace him with a terrorist" was their favourite line which handicapped the American policy makers. As the debate raged on, and Assad was squeezed from Aleppo to Damascus, ISIS showed up in the theater and changed everything. As the dithering of America continued, the Russian dictator , Putin, showed up and joined the war to distract the attention from Ukraine to Syria.

 

Now, that was few years ago. As the rebels lost ground and Assad took most of the land, the people of Syria emptied the land and became refugees around the world. Eight million Syrians left the country creating the largest refugee crises since the second world war. Aleppo, the largest city in Syria was literally destroyed by the Russian air strikes. The fertile crescent of the middle east and major Sunni towns of Aleppo, Homs Hama, Raqqa and Deir Azur were destroyed and their population emptied. 

 

Idlip, the last province under the rebels is filled with other Syrians who left destroyed towns of Syria. With a population of 4.5 million people, it was supposed the last bastion of peace and de-escalation zone to keep the internally displaced people and the remaining rebels from being destroyed to avoid creating another refugee crisis. The Turks, negotiated with Iran and Russia to keep these zones stable and buffer zone for Turkey. 

 

Yet, The Russians and Assad had attacked these area in the name of clearing terrorist elements within the rebels. While their might be some extremist elements within the rebel ranks, barrel bombing neighborhoods and bombing innocent civilians indiscriminately should never have been  allowed by anyone with any conscience. The Syrians with the help of the Russians were pushing to destroy the whole region of Idlip and declare victory. DEstroying cities and killing civilians had been the best method to clear rebels from town. The whole world is watching the destruction and barrel bombing of cities and towns. No one is talking about war crimes or aiding these helpless people. A million of them is camped at the Turkish border right now.

 

The Shia militia and their proxies are fighting to keep a bloody dictators to power. They are coming all over the region to keep the Syrian despot in power regardless of the cost to civilians. For them the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians is nothing but small price to keep their evil Shia despots in power and ensure the sect is in charge. They are doing the same thing in Yemen to deny the people to exercise their rights and choose their leaders. 

These Shia groups were those  who cheered when Mubarak of Egypt and Gaddafi of Libya were ousted by popular uprising, yet as long as the despot is Sunni , it is all welcome, but if Shia despot is overthrown by the Sunni majority they will fight to the last man to keep them in power.

 

Iran and its Shia proxies were using the Palestinian cause for further their agenda by appearing to be anti imperial or anti Israel which is a batch of honor among the masses of the middle east and the Muslim world . They do not care about Palestine or anyone else but their narrow sectarian ideology just like Al-qaeda and others. This Shia have been killing Sunnis for the last twenty years for different reasons. Islamic history has shown  that the Shia never propagated Islam or never fought in any battle of conquest anyone other than Muslims. Why would the Shia masses pouring in Syria and destroy communities all over the land?.for what?

 

People including Erdogan keep talking about the territorial integrity of Syria. Who are the Syrians? is it the criminal minority who have blood in their hands and hiding in Latakia and the coastal mediatreaninas towns, or the 20 million who are internally displaced or became refugees in the region and Europe? How can Assad  rule after destroying millions?  This are the owners of Syria who should be deciding the future of their nation.

 

The Turkish nation and Erdogan shouldn't be watching the unhiliation of the Syrian people by the despots Putin and Assad. Obama had an opportunity to defeat both Assad and Putin in Syria and check the influence of Iran , but decided to dither and confuse people without deciding one way or another. This is the legacy of American establishment electing and promoting rookies and untested leaders while discarding the veterans like John Mccain who understood Putin and other despots without ambiguity.

Erdogan must rethink his relations with Russia and strengthen the NATO alliance that served Turkey well for almost 70 years. One thing about the western alliances are they are enduring and stable for generations to come. While disruptors like Trump come and go, the NATO alliance is still the most stable and enduring military alliance and Turkey should stay within the alliance despite the differences.

 

 Russia must abandon the despot Assad and prepare the future of Syria without him or face a war of attrition from the majority of the Syrians aided by Turkey and hopefully the  west this time around. The gulf despots who were carrying bags of money for the rebels last time around went home and changed side to help Assad. 

 

 Assad doesn't have enough soldiers to keep the fight, and most of his  fighting force is nothing  but Shia militia who hide behind the Russian  air power and artillery. For the first time, the Shia militia is facing real weapons and real army. As their casualties rise  the Shia militia especially , Hizbullah, will think twice to leave Lebanon and die foreign land by high numbers.  A war of attrition will eventually destroy the small Shia population and turn the tide. 

Since the death of three dozen Turkish soldiers in an airstrike, Turkey had retaliated and hit hard the Assad army.

 

 

[galbeedi]

 

[galbeedi]

 

[Haatu]

I was reading a document the other day on the number of times the Hajj has been cancelled in Islamic history. Of the roughly 20 or so times, half was due to disease and the plague. The other half was due to the Shia attacking and killing pilgrims and cutting the roads. They even stole the Black Stone once and kept it for 20 years. Nimanka waa kuwaa. Gaal in ay kaa daafacaan iska illow, aday kuu jeedaan.

[Old_Observer]

galbeedi,

I think you have listed all fair and reasonable causes, but the situation in Syria at this stage is mistake from President Erdogan.

Never forget that NATO and EU will never give precedence to Turkish interest.

Israel, US and Britain are there to have a Kurdish state somehow. They see that as guarantee for them to be in those countries. They see that as obedient group to cause trouble any time the big powers wanted.

Arabs were there and some still are there only as obedient servants of US/Britain/France and financiers of projects the big guys want. Read an analytical article/op ed in Anadolu. It clearly shows with time fromae and connections why Israel chose UAE for cover and financier in Africa. All UAE is doing is displace Turkish.

In Syria when Turkish mid level commanders and security agencies worked with the regime when they needed to and President Erdogan had allowed this, things went fairly well. Overthrowing regime even when you hate it turns into Hubris over time, and when you do not have relacement things go wrong very rapidly.

President Erdogan has better condition and better influence to arm twist Russians and Iran than he can arm twist Europe and America.

Why is he still co-operating with terrorist that were sponsored by UAE and Saudis, when those countries themselves are rushing to make peace with Assad?

Opening the borders to EU for the refugees at this time also gives the wrong message even faith wise. Using refugees as bargaining chip is always wrong. It invalidates the generosity of the Turkish.

President Erdogan should listen to his foreign and defense ministers and forget for now what ever personal feelings and words he said in the past about Assad. This is the wrong time to act on it.


Unless President Erdogan honors what he agreed with Iran and Russia and prevent the Americans going back to North east Syria and reconstituting Kurds, he will leave a worst future problem for Turkey than a temporary and inconsequential set backs.

Remember Italy, France, Greece, Egypt, Israel and of course America and others all want Turkish to fail in Libya. They can overnight change in Syria. UAE is fully now working on side of Assad.

If Turkish seem to succeed in Syria they will be made to fail in Libya, if they seem to succeed in Libya they will be made to fail in Syria. Syria is easier to solve for Turkish than is Libya. Turkish can avoid war and big problems in Syria far easily than in Libya.

[Tillamook]

I wonder what you lot will say about the Shiites once Trump or whoever else comes after him finalizes the nuclear deal and the west finally normalizes relations with the Iranians?

America is energy independent now, whilst nearly all its global rivals are not. So if events in the Middle East further escalate or a serious shooting war begins, then it will truly be a headache for all the countries that depend on mid-East oil, not the U.S of A. 

[galbeedi]

7 hours ago, Haatu said:

They even stole the Black Stone once and kept it for 20 years. Nimanka waa kuwaa. Gaal in ay kaa daafacaan iska illow, aday kuu jeedaan.

very good point. 

8 hours ago, Oodweyne said:

Hence, Mr Erdogan has all to lose and nothing to gain by getting into a "trap" set it up by the likes of Putin for him in the destroyed towns and cities of Syria

Oodweyne,

I would like to suggest to you to leave the Somali/Somaliland debate and concentrate more on foreign policy where you not only make sense , but your deep analysis is well founded.

8 hours ago, Oodweyne said:

And they in turn really do not mind all these tragic reality so long as they are one of the players is this game of "seven hell". More to the point, they have in Mr Assad as ruthless murderer of his own people as they could have hope to get it from anyone.

It is really a game of hell.

 

5 hours ago, Tillamook said:

So if events in the Middle East further escalate or a serious shooting war begins, then it will truly be a headache for all the countries that depend on mid-East oil, not the U.S of A. 

That means America might not lose as much than the Shia despots. Anyway, with Saudi Arabia, Sisi and others , the Sunni countries are their worst enemies.