Somali's and the caste issue in marriage

[Ms DD]

Sheekada sidaa miyey ku dhamaatey? Anigoo Laandheere ah, sidee u haweysan karaa laangaab! Walle Somali xaaladeedu waa sidaa. Our country is burning, and yet my qabiil is better than the rest ayaa socota.

 

 

For the record, ladies from minority clans...hot hot hot!

 

Ibti

My dear, some walaaq that was !

[Haatu]

For all of you complaining and arguing that you can't get a guy/girl from hargeisa, burco, gaalkacyo etc, Come to Gaarisa I say!

 

We're swarming with beautiful people and we don't prejudice

[Xaaji Dhagax.]

Originally posted by Ms DD:

Sheekada sidaa miyey ku dhamaatey? Anigoo Laandheere ah, sidee u haweysan karaa laangaab! Walle Somali xaaladeedu waa sidaa. Our country is burning, and yet my qabiil is better than the rest ayaa socota.

 

 

For the record, ladies from minority clans...hot hot hot!

 

Ibti

My dear, some walaaq that was

!

What about the guys from the minority clans?

[sheherazade]

they've got to be hotter.

[Allamagan]

It is true that everyone wants to marry from within his/her clan circles but the truth of the matter is that love still brings people together. There are choices to make here and it is up to the person (individual) either to follow his/her heart or his/her parents wish. I personally believe that most of today's somalis especially those in diaspora dont give two hoots what parents will say about their marriage choices. It was post civil war that ppl started reaching out to each other and because of this ppl moving around up & down the country from south to north and vice versa then dadkii iska arki jirrin wa ay is arkeen, la is caashaqay, deedna guur ayaa meeshi yimi, OK, so over the years I have seen northern folks (when I say North folk, it is incl. those of Paragon's, Castro's and of course reer LAs) doing the 'unthinkable' i.e. married/marrying ppl from deep south, from Baay, Waleweyn, reer Xamar, Shaanshi etc and of course southern clans I have also seen reer xamars, reer bravos, reer Baay, reer Mogadishu finding love in the north. so I dont understand what is the fuss here? People should follow their heart and ignore these clannish prejudices. Period!!

 

Re. the caste issue in marriage, this is really ridiculous and insha'Allah over the years we somalis will evolve from this centauries old evil practices into more civilised societies. I dont understand how one can NOT be happy marrying to an attractive and an educated somali sister/brother who is said to be from this "derided" clan? I know it is all about this social stigma around it, right? but I believe together we can change this, so that in the future marrying to your own somali ppl regarfdless of their clan affiliation no longer carries the social stigma that it used to. IA.

 

Time will tell....

[Cabdow]

^ Well said bro, and Inshallah as you said time will tell!

 

War iyo dhamaantii,

[Abyan]

Soomalida wexeey dhahdaa uurka waxaa ku jira carabkaa soo daafo or in this case the keybord.

 

You learn alot about people in threads like this indeed.

 

Some of them I´ve met a couple of times ..I just hope this is some internet persona......

[AYOUB]

^ Nothing new, SOL folks never miss an opportunity to hurt each others feelings.

 

I dont understand how one can NOT be happy marrying to an attractive and an educated somali sister/brother who is said to be from this "derided" clan?

Allamagan, the ones at the bottom of the "ladder" don't have fair opportunity to get educated ( among other privileges ) in the first place. Chicken and egg.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Rahima:

In threads like this you learn a lot about people;)

 

Qabiil (or its pseudonym region) has never been an issue for me, hence why my husband and I are as different as they come. What matters is how strongly they value their qabiil and/or dhaqan- too strongly and a no no.

 

NGONGE, you've got to be kidding right? Are you actually trying to argue that Islam allows for discrimination based on qabiil?

It's not me who is making the argument. Blessed said it was xaram and I informed her that In the Hanafi, Shafici and Xanbali madhabs they consider the principle of Kafah (equality in nasab) an important part of marraige. So the argument of outright Xaram might not be so after all.

 

P.S.

You learn nothing about people from reading replies on this thread. Not even Duke.

[5]

Hey thanks to this thread, I now realize why Somalia is in the state it is. Because of people like Ngonge et al who claim to be modern and civilized but are in reality narrow-minded and deeply, deeply qabiil driven. Hypocrites! You are no better than oday yaasha oo dalka laayeen.

[Che -Guevara]

Ms.DD...Saying they are hot is actually patronizing.

 

Allamgan..I think we are exaggerating bit here. Let's put this in historical perspectives. While there is no denying prejudice exists among all Somali tribes of the horn (this goes every way), it is not unthinkable to see relationships among all tribes. True, you marry within your tribe essentially that's cuz the chances are you live within your tribe's traditional territory but the nomadic nature or even the politics of the Somali has allowed us to integrate. The origins of the May May itself is testament to that-as I'm sure you know more than me, the Siyeed and Sagaal is not shared ancestry but cultural construct compromised of the original local inhabitants and tribes from as far as the most northern part of Somalia and way out into the Somaligalbeed.

 

Integration is even obvious in the Maxaatiri as many sub-tribe are named after maternal tribe-you hear bah this or that, and some of the famous habro are named after their maternal tribe's name. And I don't use my family as benchmark but I can't think of any family who traces their ancestry to one region or tribe. The only reason I'm reer Hebel is cuz we are patriarchal society. Even the very mythical beginning of certain tribes is intertwined with others-men far from land marrying locals (though I don't think such men ever existed-more economic and political alliance than actual shared ancestry).

 

But anyway as for the "derided" tribes, it seems consistent treatment that they receives from all Somalis, from Hargeysa, Galkacayo to the most southern end of the country. It is like conspiracy!!

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by 2+2=5:

Hey thanks to this thread, I now realize why Somalia is in the state it is. Because of people like Ngonge et al who claim to be modern and civilized but are in reality narrow-minded and deeply, deeply qabiil driven. Hypocrites! You are no better than oday yaasha oo dalka laayeen.

Let it all out, dear. Somalia is in the state it is because of people like you, not me. Never me.

[Jacpher]

^Mzee Elaborate more on this equality in nasab if you don't mind. I thought the nasab the diin is concerned with is having a father linage, not necessarily qabiil status. Unknown father/mother is what most matters? no?

 

People don't make your kids life a living hell. Go with your respective family line. Shimbirkaada dhinac ka raac.

 

EDIT: If Somali civil war taught us anything, it should be to not mix up people with extreme hatred, hostility and violence towards each other. People who kill savagely each other merely because one happens to be of different clan. Unless trust is restored which needs another half or century, no one should be making babies with names bar-bar xaaraam oo ay dili doonaan their own uncles or aunties.

[NGONGE]

^^ According to the listed scholars it is about the actual qabiil. They, of course, say that the deen comes first but they give a list of conditions and one of those is the equality of nasab. However, this does not mean that they forbid marriages that do not follow this rule. All they basically say is that you can refuse someone on the basis of their nasab.

[Jacpher]

^Ikhtiyaar has never been an issue to my knowledge. Anyone can refuse anyone else on any basis but saying this qureyshi nasab is incompatible with Bilaali nasab is where the mud sliding begins. I think one is entitled to preference but not nasab prideness as demonstrated by our prophet's marriage to his servant's ex-wife. I think this quranic revelation has slammed that specific door shut.

 

I am against this for a whole different reason. Changing long held beliefs and historical practices however rightly or wrongly, while we can't even live next to each other without resorting to deadly violence is somehow deceiving the reality of our people. Heck, back home hostility followed us abroad where our youth with no or little Somali culture exposure are gunning down one another across clan lines. Set the priorities straight.