Ancient Somalia, 70 C.E.

[Armchair Politician]

These market towns declined after Christianity became the majority religion in the Roman Empire, because the biggest market for incense (used in Pagan religious ceremonies) no longer had a use for it.

 

There was still the market with China, India and southeast Asia, but there Somalia went from being the closest and therefore most desirable destination for traders to the most remote and inaccessible, and Arab traders acting as middlemen took over the trade.

[Chimera]

Yes several of them dissappeared but the Paikuli inscriptions show a political and commercial relationship with the Kingdom of Zand in Somalia and the Sassanid rulers of Iran in the 3rd century AD which probably lasted till the 6th century

 

Cosmas as late as the 6th century noted the abundance in trade on the East African plateau and excavations in Somalia uncovered Parthian and Sassanid ceramics/coins from the 1st century AD till the 5/6th century AD

 

the Arab conquest of the Sassanid Empire insured Arab access to this profitable trade and yes most of the silk route caravans and ships came under their domination(since most of it went through ports and lands under their jurisdiction)

 

the collapse of the Roman Empire played a factor in the decline of this trade(though Byzantine continued a healthy trade with East African ports in other commodities) the collapse of Sassanid Persia is another.

[Armchair Politician]

That's a kingdom I've never heard of, can you tell me more about the kingdom of Zand?

[Armchair Politician]

The Periplus states that it is 3,000 Stadia from Ptolmais Theron to Adulis, and a further 4,000 Stadia to Avalites.

 

The distance between Ptolmais Theron (near modern day Suakin) and Adulis (some ways south of Massawa actually) is about the same as the distance between Adulis and modern Aseb. There is another 1,000 Stadia to travel, which is just about the distance between Aseb and Zeila.

 

I believe that the statement that it is the closest to Yemen is in comparison to the other market towns, not that it is the closest PLACE physically, which it is, it is closer to Yemen than Adulis or Malao.

[Chimera]

'Zand Afrik Shah' was a third century King in Northeast Somalia that had relations with the Persian ruler Narseh[1]

 

again Somalist scholars and their studies regarding pre-Islamic Somalia is pathetic and outdated, you bet this Kingdom will be illuminated in the near future

[Armchair Politician]

That's interesting that he used the term "Afrik". Afar is derived from this root word.

 

The book you linked me also uses the term "Zang", which in Arab and Farsi means "black". The so called "Zenj Empire" of coastal cities down east Africa was similarly named.

 

Mogadishu has long been stated to be the first "Zenj" or "Zang" state founded.

[Fabregas]

But weren't the Zanj and Soomaal different ppl? One of the medieval Arab maps shows a map of horn East Africa, divided between: Berberland(Somali), Zanj, Waaq( Oromo), Habashynia and Bilad Al sud( land of the Blacks). Or was Zanj just a name for "Black ppl"? Al Jahiz, the Baghdadian Scholar, who wrote the treatise on the superiortiy of the Blacks over the Whites was one of the "Zanj". Also, is the term " Afrik Shah" before the usage of the word to denote the conquest of North Africa by Scipio Africanus? Some ppl say that Afrika is derived from an AFrican root word, whilst others say that it is named after the conquest of Scipio Africanus!

 

p.s the author in the Link says that Muslims didn't conquer Somaliland and Axum because of a weakneness in seafaring. This is erroneous because it is believed that the Prophet saw warned against attacking Abysnia because of her kindness to his followers!

[ElPunto]

^I believe Zanj is more a place name - ie the East African littoral from north of Mogadishu down to Mozambique. So in Zanj - you have a diversity of peoples including Somalis at least in those areas adjacent to the nomadic interior.

 

Berber is a term for the people and is generally referenced only to Somalis in particular.

[Chimera]

huh? 1 stadia = ~200 m | 5 stadia = 1km | 5000 stadia = 1000km | a 1000 stadia = ~200km the Djbouti coastline alone is 314 km so you need alot more than a 1000 stadia to make it from Assab to Saylac who's distance from eachother is around 500/600 km

 

Zang is the persian name for the Greek Azania, Mogadishu was founded by Cushites who's presence in that area through archaeology has been marked as early as the 1st century AD Mogadishu during it's first Golden Age was a Berber city and it's rulers were Berbers(Somalis) and this continued from the Ajjuuraans to the Geledians

 

Zenj is just a geographic name not a political entity just like Habash became a geographic name later on in the Islamic period

 

same with the word ''Swahili'' which is now used to designate certain peoples with hybrid languages evendo it meant ''coastal people'' and Somali people fell/fall under the original definition

 

btw Afar are cool people ,love them we should import one and make him/her president lol

[Paragon]

One phrase I use to hear often when growing up was 'Awoowgaa iyo sinjigaaba la cadaabye' geela geela gandiga qaba doc uga duw . Those harsh geeljire phrases are still stuck in my mind, if they mean anything.

[ElPunto]

^No one beats Somalis at habaar - the permutations they come up with - amazing.

 

Mogadishu during it's first Golden Age was a Berber city and it's rulers were Berbers(Somalis)

How do you prove that? There is a lack of information on this at least from what I'm familiar with.

[Fabregas]

Dhul Qarnyan, was this " Afrik Shah" before the Scipio Africanus? Am not good with this B.C./A.D dates

[Armchair Politician]

I'm going to do some math.

[Armchair Politician]

Ok. Ptolmais Theron corresponds roughly with the city of Suakin, which is 448km away from Massawa. Adulis lies roughly 40 kilometers away from Massawa, so 500 Kilometers.

 

So 3000 of the narrator's Stadia equal 500 km. 6 Stadia = 1km.

 

From Adulis to Avalites is 4000 Stadia, or 667 km.

The distance from Massawa to Zeila is 642 km.

The distance from Massawa to Aseb is 442 km.

The distance from Aseb to Zeila is 200 km.

 

This is how the crow flies though, however Massawa is 40 km further away from Zeila than Adulis, so even accounting for 70km of extra trip time, Zeila matches almost perfectly, while Aseb is 200km too close to be Avalites.

[Chimera]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

quote:

---

Mogadishu during it's first Golden Age was a Berber city and it's rulers were Berbers(Somalis)

How do you prove that? There is a lack of information on this at least from what I'm familiar with.

History is always vague and based on multiple disciplines(:Archeaology,writing,antropology etc) scholars use come to a consensus

 

in this case we know:

 

-Ancestors of the Somali people were present in this area well before Ibn Battuta's arrival Human graves(first practiced in Somalia) with the same skeleton build as present day Somalis date back to the Holoscene era and remains of Pastoralists from the Hargeisan period in the North and Doian period in the South are well documented by Steve Brandt

 

-Berberi was used as a sobriquet for Somalis in Ibn Battuta's time and as late as the 18/19th century in some quarters of Somalia

 

-As we have said, the Sultan of Mogadishu is called Shaikh by his subjects. His. name is Abu Bakr ibn Shaikh Omar, and by race he is a Berber-Ibn Battuta

 

-The Sultan did not speak Arabic or Persian(Languages Ibn Battuta is familiar with) but spoke a local Language, Swahili was not a developed language in that time period but Somali was(meaning a considerable period had past since the splitting off Af Somali from other East-cushitic languages like Af Afar and Af Oromo)

 

Among minor points it may be noted that the Maqdishi language was doubtless Somali and not Swahili-G.W.B. Huntingford