Against the Saudization of Somaliland

[Alle-ubaahne]

Curling - Athena, you are the winner in this debate for being pro-those-people, and we, the rest of the traditionalists, are winners as well for being pro-diinteena iyo difaaca dadkeena. Till next debate, we wish you good luck and less headache for selling those hard to accept idealogies that you deeply incline.

[-Serenity-]

^ You're a loser if after all this you dont see the error in your ways.

 

p.s. nin iska dhig oo stop the useless insults, curses and booto on this site. Talking of this man this long and over his beleives while he is absent is tantamount to eating the flesh of your brethen. Orod tag awdalnews.com and send a quick e-mail to Bashir Goth if you have an issue with him as opposed to his article which is the point of discussion here.

 

• O you who believe! Avoid much suspicions, indeed some suspicions are sins. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it (so hate backbiting) . And fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is the One Who accepts repentance, Most Merciful. "(49:11,12)

backbiting: To speak spitefully or slanderously about (another).

[Jabhad]

This was, however, in the past when Islam lived in ideal co-habitation with the local culture, when fashion changed according to time and age. This was the time when one could pray occasionally, or never prayed at all, fasted in the month of Ramadan or never fasted at all, made pilgrimage to Mecca or never did at all; but would forever consider oneself a true follower of Islam, knowing that to be a Muslim is a bond between man and God and that one’s faith is not answerable to anyone else.

 

I'm happily go with Islamic way of life than the "local culture" this writer is trying to protect.

[Rahima]

What exactly are you attempting to convey with that irrelevant to the subject of discussion copy and paste?

Irrelevant? I’m sure you can read, comprehend and connect the dots sister.

 

You deny that Mr. Goth is mocking Islam; I was proving to you why he is mocking Islam.

 

"Growing the beard, trimming the moustache, removing armpit hair, washing the knuckles, these are insignificant things!"

Established mockery!

 

into adorning the black cloak of ignorance.

This is not mockery you say? Cajiib walaahi.

 

2) Implying that Bashir Goth is an apostate. Then let me say that Fatwas or religious addicts should only be issued by clerics with religious authority. Followers cannot label other muslims as apostates. I’m sure you know that if you label another Muslim a disbeliever, and if they are not, then you become a disbeliever. So if Rahima/Alleubaahne has logically deducted that B.G is an apostate and he is indeed not, then Rahima/Alle-u-baahne is. Still, the outcome is in your favour I would say, so wager on!!

That twisted I could read it as you calling me a disbeliever, of course that twisted which is what you have done to my post. I never stated that Mr. Goth is a disbeliever, all I was doing was highlighting why his words are words of disbelief. Like I said big difference between acts of kufr and being a kaffir .

 

Bottom line Athena, this whole discussion is quite sad. It seems like you are incapable of disagreeing and having a discussion without misconstruing things and insulting (and i don't mean that as a swipe either, just noticed). So far I have yet to insult you once, for I thought we had how do I put it, progressed , but alas it is disappointing. That aside this all comes down to you not allowing for other opinions. You want to ram what you believe to be right (or strongest opinion with no proof other than ‘I think’) down everyone’s throats. Learn to accept differences of opinion in matters where even the scholars disagree, and at the very least if you are going to argue in future come with proof .

[-Serenity-]

^ That last paragraph is rich.

 

But we can move on. Lets face it, you'll never understand that half baked fatwa's, tedious copy and paste jobs and making implications that are far, far beyond your scope are at the very least in bad taste in pointless discussions.

 

 

p.s. Enjoy the rest of your Ramadan as well.

[Pi]

He might be an apostate, and I'll leave others to figure that out, because I am just not equipped with such knowledge. However, as a matter of decency, foul language and "bedamnings" should never be allowed.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

Somaliaonline shouldn't be allowing such people who clearly support the enemy of our religion, who are no different than Ayan Xirsi.

You mean your religion?

 

 

These extremist and ultra-secularist elements amongst us are testing our patience when they blatanly support the views of Allah's enemy and yet worse expect us to accomodate some rooms for their callous passivity about Islam.

Safe the appelative for its rightfull place for a moment and answer me this question. Who are the extremists and ultra-secularist you're talking about?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Rahima:

I can see where this is heading. You are going to dispute that the word ‘hijab’ is not literally mentioned or something along those lines. This is just word, basically women have to cover that which is prescribed in the Quran and further explained in the Sunnah, some of which you do not believe in so I’m not sure how we can have a productive discussion if we don’t even agree on the sources.

 

Of course you'd know where this is going . Why shouldn't you? My asking for quranic validation was a give away, a hint to you that I knew there was NO quranic verse demanding that muslim women wear the hijab.

 

The Hijab is not synonymous with modesty, there are many ways a muslim woman can be dress modestly and yet be Hijabless. Or semi Hijabed. Or even better in my view go anti-Hijabing. Options for modesty are aplenty, options to exercise modesty -apparently- are amiss.

 

You're spot on about my rejection of the hadiths as the final say on what muslims should and shouldn't do. I have my reasons but that is beside the point. The Quran is the single uniting source for all muslims, from all sects and sub-sects. Consequently, if the Hijab is as important as you make it out to be, one would venture there be an injection in the Quran -- the unambigious words of Allah -- propounding its institution. But there isn't a single Quranic verse obligating Hijab donning. Therefore, to muslims like myself and others who don't believe the Hadiths are the words of Allah have more then a leeway in rejecting the Hijab, we have valid arguement and justification backed by Allah's words or lack of.

 

 

I'll respond to the rest of your post later, I'm strapped for time.

 

Peace and ramadaan kariim

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

quote:Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

Somaliaonline shouldn't be allowing such people who clearly support the enemy of our religion, who are no different than Ayan Xirsi.

You mean

your

religion?

 

 

These extremist and ultra-secularist elements amongst us are testing our patience when they blatanly support the views of Allah's enemy and yet worse expect us to accomodate some rooms for their callous passivity about Islam.

Safe the appelative for its rightfull place for a moment and answer me this question. Who are the

extremists

and

ultra-secularist

you're talking about?

Yes, my religion, Islam.

 

I am talking about they, and they know what I am talking about. Now, my question is are you one of them, the ultra-secularists at large in SOL?

[Rahima]

I'll respond to the rest of your post later, I'm strapped for time.

Although I’m sure this will come across as rude (it is not my intention), don’t bother.

 

I cannot discuss Islamic issues with a person who denies the Sunnah.

 

Like i said I cannott discuss why you should be fined without your P’s up if you believe that the road laws in Australia are whole load of crock

[Caano Geel]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

I am talking about they, and they know what I am talking about. Now, my question is are you one of them, the ultra-secularists at large in SOL?

how do u become one can i ask? is there a procedure, do we need to apply? do they provide training? and what kind of qualifications or consesions do they offer?

[NGONGE]

War watch out for your afro....

 

 

 

The king of evildoers

[Caano Geel]

Raxiima, first of all you are right on my mockery of the hijab, it was uncalled for. But please also realise that there is no established stantardisation of the hijab, each culture that has taken islam how made its own relections on whats acceptable and to be honest with you i dont see a problem with that. what i dont agree with its the

 

Abu Dawood narrates that ... no part of her body should be seen but this-and he pointed to his face and hands

 

This is third-party news, accepted or not, it relates information 3 hops down the communication chain. Now come the questions? if you can take what Abu Dawood says as the firm unbaised, not embedded in specific cultural or social norms, then fine. but you cant expect this to imply longer/bigger the better for every one.

 

now we are straying fron the point. I agree bashiirs atricle is not the best written, it address the subject with an attempt at humour, i agree with you that this might not be the best way to aproach it.

 

however you forget that the man is addresing wahhabism, not islam. Its like saying i am 'protestant and disagree with catholics'. if you disagree that wahhabism is a movement and not the one and true interpertation of islam, then yes the article is offensive, otherwise its a man expressing his opinions.

 

my view, people come to understanding when they are able to think about a subject. without questing the motive of a reason, you cant understand it. This form of discourse is sadly lacking and the justifications offered for its absense are as always used to perpetuate ignorance and control people.

[Caano Geel]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

The king of evildoers

is that me your referring to sir? :rolleyes:

 

my afro, had been placed in the hair net for protection

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

quote:Originally posted by Rahima:

I can see where this is heading. You are going to dispute that the word ‘hijab’ is not literally mentioned or something along those lines. This is just word, basically women have to cover that which is prescribed in the Quran and further explained in the Sunnah, some of which you do not believe in so I’m not sure how we can have a productive discussion if we don’t even agree on the sources.

 

Of course you'd know where this is

going

. Why shouldn't you? My asking for quranic validation was a give away, a hint to you that I knew there was NO quranic verse demanding that muslim women wear the hijab.

 

The Hijab is not synonymous with modesty, there are many ways a muslim woman can be dress modestly and yet be Hijabless. Or semi Hijabed. Or even better in my view go anti-Hijabing. Options for modesty are aplenty, options to exercise modesty -apparently- are amiss.

 

You're spot on about my rejection of the hadiths as the final say on what muslims should and shouldn't do. I have my reasons but that is beside the point. The Quran is the single uniting source for all muslims, from all sects and sub-sects. Consequently, if the Hijab is as important as you make it out to be, one would venture there be an injection in the Quran -- the unambigious words of Allah -- propounding its institution. But there isn't a single Quranic verse obligating Hijab donning. Therefore, to muslims like myself and others who don't believe the Hadiths are the words of Allah have more then a leeway in rejecting the Hijab, we have valid arguement and justification backed by Allah's words or lack of.

 

 

I'll respond to the rest of your post later, I'm strapped for time.

 

Peace and ramadaan kariim

Socad Badne, this might be of some use to you-DOES IT LOOK FAMILIAR???