Against the Saudization of Somaliland

[Viking]

I wonder whether Bashir Goth is equally concerned about the cultural erosion that is taking place among Somalis who live in the west. I'm talking about the 50-cent and Beyonce wannabes that have traded the macawiis, guntiino and garbasaar for jeans and t-shirts (the size is commonly XXXL for young boys and for the females, garments are preferred somewhat "shrunken" - tightfitting jeans and shirts that have shrunk enough to show the navel). Being the "traditionalist" he is, he must find this too to be a worrying trend.

[Sharmarkee]

Originally posted by Viking:

I wonder whether Bashir Goth is equally concerned about the cultural erosion that is taking place among Somalis who live in the west. I'm talking about the 50-cent and Beyonce wannabes that have traded the

macawiis, guntiino and garbasaar

for jeans and t-shirts (the size is commonly XXXL for young boys and for the females, garments are preferred somewhat "shrunken" - tightfitting jeans and shirts that have shrunk enough to show the navel). Being the "traditionalist" he is, he must find this too to be a worrying trend.

I think he's the leading trend-setter for wannabes(old and Young) both, as he changed his name from Good to Gothe - indicates he's more AngloSaxon than the Saxons, what a joke!

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

Kaas diinta ku aflagaadooday muxuu dhaamaa hadda kuwii nabiga (scw) dhibi jiray, sida Abuu Lahab?

 

Bashir Godoow, Naarta Jahanamo Salkeeda ku waar, ilaah aan ka baryee! Oo afka aad diinteena iyo dumarkeena ku caaysay, masiibo dagdag ah ilaah haka soo saaro!

Laa xawla walaa quwati ilaa bilaahi caliyal cadiim. I can't believe I am reading this sort of habaar in Ramadan. What planet is this guy from? Acuudu bilaah. :eek:

[Saalixa]

Somalis recognized unmarried girls by their uncovered hair “guudley†and married women by their hair cover “gambooley

This is contradicting his latter earlier statement

“Verily in the body there is a piece of flesh. If it is sound, the body is all sound. If it is corrupt, the body is all corrupt. Verily, it is the heart.â€

If he would have also quoted the rest of the hadith it will all fall into place stating :"the haram is clear and the halal is clear...".

By revealing your hair and "traveling with a single men or even a group of men on long trips, spending nights and days in their company " just can shows how ignorant those generation of people were of the true teachings of ISLAM. It is clearly haram and for Bashir to have simply ignored it....i dispise him for it.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Aeronwen:

quote:Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

Kaas diinta ku aflagaadooday muxuu dhaamaa hadda kuwii nabiga (scw) dhibi jiray, sida Abuu Lahab?

 

Bashir Godoow, Naarta Jahanamo Salkeeda ku waar, ilaah aan ka baryee! Oo afka aad diinteena iyo dumarkeena ku caaysay, masiibo dagdag ah ilaah haka soo saaro!

Laa xawla walaa quwati ilaa bilaahi caliyal cadiim

. I can't believe I am reading this sort of habaar in Ramadan. What planet is this guy from? Acuudu bilaah. :eek:

I don't know why it matters what planet I came from, they guy insulted our religion and Muslim women in blatant language. Whether you approve my habaar or not, that is another issue, but you don't need to defend someone who strongly stands with his un-islamic position. And, let me tell you this, if you are Muslim enough, you wouldn't feel sympathy for that renegade and blasphemous hypocrit!

 

Please check your iimaan and improve it; that is all I can advise you, sister/brother.

[Young Jeezy]

Bashir Goth is boring. Next article please.

 

ps. Is Somaliaonline the hang out spot for all the somali secularists?

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

I don't know why it matters what planet I came from, they guy insulted our religion and Muslim women in blatant language. Whether you approve my habaar or not, that is another issue, but you don't need to defend someone who strongly stands with his un-islamic position. And, let me tell you this, if you are Muslim enough, you wouldn't feel sympathy for that renegade and blasphemous hypocrit!

 

Please check your iimaan and improve it; that is all I can advise you, sister/brother.

Alle-Ubaahne, in the spirit of Ramadan, I will accept your advice and even thank you for it.

 

In the same vein, I hope you'll listen to my advice as well. Do not assume things and put words in people's mouths. Because I called you out on your horrid curses, you assumed I was defending an un-Islamic position and even better, that I lack iman. Do you see anything wrong with that? At all? I had not commented on the article or the author. My post was referring solely to your comment, i.e the cursing. You see, my approval/disapproval of your vile habaar isn't another issue, it is the ONLY issue I have.

 

Brother, ignorant arrogance is one of the ugliest qualities anybody could have the misfortune of possessing.

 

I can truly say that in the three years I have been a member of SOL, I have never come across a worse habaar than the one you posted. Since you are clearly proud of yourself, and since the Moderators don't see a problem with it, I shall leave it there.

 

 

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: O Allah, I am a human being and for any person among Muslims upon whom I hurl malediction or invoke a curse or lashed him please make it a source of purity and mercy.

Sahih Muslim: 4706

[Rahima]

Aeronwen,

 

The hadith you provided specifies that it is for Muslims ( "any person among Muslims upon whom"), so going by that the permissibility of the brothers curse is dependant on whether or not Bashir Gothe is a Muslim.

 

That said though it seems that there is a disagreement even amongst the scholars on this matter (but i'm sure there is a stronger opinion).

 

Question :

 

 

What is the ruling on cursing (and not just insulting) the Jews and Christians or other groups, whether living or dead? May Allaah reward you with good.

 

Answer :

 

Praise be to Allaah.

 

The author of Lisaan al-‘Arab [a famous Arabic-language dictionary – Translator] said: La’n (curse) means being cast out far from goodness, and it was said that it means being cast away far from Allaah, and from people.

 

Cursing happens in two ways:

 

Cursing the kuffaar and sin in general terms, such as saying “May Allaah curse the Jews and Christians,†or “May Allaah curse the kaafirs, evildoers and wrongdoers,†or “May Allaah curse the wine-drinker and thief.†This kind of curse is permissible and there is nothing wrong with it. Ibn Muflih said in al-Adaab al-Shar’iyyah, 1/203: “It is permissible to curse the kuffaar in general.â€

 

The second is where the curse is applied to a specific person, whether he is a kaafir or an evildoer, such as saying, “May Allaah curse So and so,†mentioning him by name. This may fall into one of two categories:

 

1 – Where there is a text which states that he is cursed, such as Iblees, or where there is a text which states that he died as a kaafir, such as Pharaoh, Abu Lahab and Abu Jahl. Cursing such persons is permitted.

 

Ibn Muflih said in al-Adaab al-Shar’iyyah, 1/214: “It is permissible to curse those concerning whom there is a text stating that they are cursed, but there is no sin involved if one does not do this.â€

 

2 – Cursing a particular kaafir or evildoer concerning whom there is no text stating that they are cursed – such as wine-drinkers, those who offer sacrifices to anything other than Allaah, the one who curses his parents, those who introduce innovations in religion, and so on.

 

“The scholars differed as to whether it is permissible to curse these people, and there are three points of view:

 

(i) That it is not permissible under any circumstances

 

(ii) That it is permissible in the case of a kaafir but not of a (Muslim) evildoer

 

(iii) That it is permissible in all cases.â€

 

Al-Adaab al_Shar’iyyah by Ibn Muflih, 1/303

 

Those who say that it is not permissible quoted a number of texts as evidence, including the following:

 

1 – The report narrated by al-Bukhaari (4070) from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar, that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when he raised his head from rukoo’ in the final rak’ah of Fajr prayer and said: “O Allaah, curse So and so, and So and so, and So and so,†after he had said, “Sami’a Allaahu li man hamdih, Rabbana wa laka’l-hamd.†Then Allaah revealed the words (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“Not for you (O Muhammad, but for Allaah) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zaalimoon (polytheists, disobedients and wrongdoers)â€

 

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:128]

 

2 – The report narrated by al-Bukhaari (6780) from ‘Umar, that there was a man at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) whose name was ‘Abd-Allaah, but his nickname was Himaar (donkey), and he used to make the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) laugh. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had had him flogged for drinking, then he was brought one day and he commanded that he be flogged, and a man who was there said, “O Allaah, curse him, how often he is brought [for this reason]!†But the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not curse him, for by Allaah what I a know about him is that he loves Allaah and His Messenger.â€

 

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 6/511.

 

It is permissible to curse all those whom Allaah and His Messenger have cursed, but as for cursing specific people, if it is known that the person died in kufr, then it is permissible to curse him. But with regard to a specific [Muslim] evildoer, we should not curse him, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade cursing ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Himaar who used to drink wine, even though he had cursed the wine-drinkers in general; however cursing a specific person if he is an evildoer or promoter of bid’ah is a point of dispute among the scholars.

 

And Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said in al-Qawl al-Mufeed, 1/226.

 

The difference between cursing a specific person and cursing those who commit sin in general is that the former (cursing a specific person) is not allowed, and the latter (cursing the people who commit sin in general) is allowed. So if you see an innovator, you do not say, ‘May Allaah curse you,’ rather say, ‘May the curse of Allaah be upon those who introduce innovations,’ in general terms. The evidence for that is the fact that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed some people among the mushrikeen and followers of jaahiliyyah and said: “O Allaah, curse So and so, and So and so, and So and so,†he was told not to do that when Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“Not for you (O Muhammad, but for Allaah) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zaalimoon (polytheists, disobedients and wrongdoers)â€

 

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:128]

 

This was narrated by al-Bukhaari.

 

And Allaah knows best.

 

 

Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

[Valenteenah.]

^ I know the Hadith specifies Muslims. I posted it from the premise that the author - Bashir Goth- is a Muslim, whether secular or otherwise (I am not quick to assume that someone who should be, by all intents and purposes, a Muslim isn't one....well, unless that person explicitly states that they are not of course).

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by Rahima:

The hadith you provided specifies that it is for Muslims ( "any person among Muslims upon whom"), so going by that the permissibility of the brothers curse is dependant on whether or not Bashir Gothe is a Muslim.

Bashir Goth is a muslim as far as I know. I've not read anywhere he proclaimed otherwise. His points of view and what it is to be a muslim doesn't have to fine-tune with yours, mine or any1 else on this forum. What is expected of us is either to correct what we see as wrong or to withhold any hateful comments. Therefore, Mr.Alle-u-baahne(what an apt name!) deserves to have his post deleted (IMHO)! Its inappropriate, hateful and disgusting.

[Sky]

Bashir Hashim Goth still claims to be muslim, so Alle-uBaahne's curse was out of place. But he's too arrogant to edit his mistake. He even calls a Somali singer, a potential Ayaan. What's wrong with this guy?

[Jacpher]

Alle u baahne:

 

I understand your anger towards someone insulting Islam and you have a reason to get angry at the author for offending Islam or mocking the Ulumaa. It’s the sunnah of the prophet scw to show disapproval and discomfort when Islam is violated but habaar isn’t the answer. It would have been better if you addressed him in the way the prophet scw used to address such people. Famaa Baalu Qowmim Yafcaluuna.....! Such words would have been enough of an answer. The author needs hidaaya more than anything.

 

By the way you have a beautiful name. Al-Faqiir Ilalaah.

 

Ramadaan Mubaarak to all

[Alle-ubaahne]

For Ducaqabe, and Sister Rahima, thank you indeed for your suggestions and insights, though I stand with my remarks fully on the basis of my unwavering support for my Islamic religion. My curse wasn't uttered out of reason, it was prompted by the unjustified and wrongful blasphemy of Bashir Got (=Mas). None of us disagrees that the renegade - Bashir Goth - is in contridiction with our religion, but the question is how can the likes of certain people in this forum are running around here asking for the deletion of my faithful curses towards Bashir Goth, who deserved more than that? What wrong did I do, and to be called for the elimination of my post, when I was realy enraged for days with the grievious remarks against my most beloved thing in this world: Islam. I understand that some people can say something that reflects their own ignorance, but I am talking about here people who are able to bring on some narrations of the prophet, (scw), and still would like me to withdraw from defending our religion.

 

iPod Athena,

Its inappropriate, hateful and disgusting.

Defeding my religion is inappropriate! My curse towards Bashir Goth was hateful! And, togather my inappropriate style of delivering the curse, the curse itself, as well as me, personally are all disgusting! Therefore, to her, Bashir Goth was not only appropriate, but more unhateful and undisgusting. You see, my sister, there is a great Somali proverb that says, "Rag iska dhici iyo Rabbi ka cabso isku meel ma galaan." That you were trying to subdue me from raising my objections against Bashir, because for some XYZ reasons, you went far beyond the legitamate boundaries of our faith. No problem, you've the right to say whatever you want as did Mr. Bashir, but can you allow me to exercise my Allah-given rights to defend my religion, and leave alone my final resort Habaar/Curse?

 

I don't know if the people like to exaggarate things or not, but I find no un-islamic elements in my Habaar that was aimed at the article of Mr. Goth or Snake, and his mouth that uttered the injurious statements. I believe there is no one among us that can proof if the writings on the article were solely to that of Mr.Snake, except his name at the end of it. Its possible that the article was not exactly the views of Mr. Snake, as happen before with the cases of Weris Dirie and Ayan Hersi who are nothing but western instruments. And if that is so, and surely the auther was a non-muslim who, after Bashir's religious sale-off compliance, used his name, then my Habaar is not only sacred but holy.

 

And I still ask the Almighty Allah with sincerity that HE displays on the mouth of Bashir Goth shocking signs that the entire humanity horrifies. Because he delibarately insulted our religion and people in the daylight, without showing any remorse or subsequent repentful article. O Allah, please accept my prayers and curses for we're currently weak and unable to physically revenge for his remarks.

 

Aamiin, ilaahoow aqbal oo ajiib!

 

N.B. I am asking for my fellow assembly of this forum to forgive me if I did any wrong or hurted anybod's feeling unintentionaly, for I wish no one to keep animosity in this holy month of Ramadan.

[-Serenity-]

Defeding

my

religion is inappropriate! My curse towards Bashir Goth was hateful! And, togather my inappropriate style of delivering the curse, the curse itself, as well as me, personally are all disgusting!

Ironically, you’re right on all accounts mate.

 

Lets examine your ‘defence’

 

Walaahi you uncovered the real intentions of the Marqaan-weyne , the loser, and the worst example of a fading out sufi.

 

Ilaahayoow waxaan marqaati ka ahay inaad naxariis badan tahay, oo naxariistaada ay ka qaalib noqotay carradaada. Kaas diinta ku aflagaadooday muxuu dhaamaa hadda kuwii nabiga (scw) dhibi jiray, sida Abuu Lahab?

 

Bashir Godoow, Naarta Jahanamo Salkeeda ku waar, ilaah aan ka baryee! Oo afka aad diinteena iyo dumarkeena ku caaysay, masiibo dagdag ah ilaah haka soo saaro!

Now Mr.Alle-U-Baahne, where have you ‘defended’ your religion? Have you actually given us reasons as to why you object to Mr.Bashir Goth’s article? NO. Therefore your ‘defence’ is inappropriate (erm..non-existent?).

 

Secondly, your curse is more than hateful. It sounds demonic too.

 

And lastly, your ‘style’ and ‘curse’ are…. something approaching revulsion.

 

Heh… did I just repeat myself?

 

Moving on…

 

Brother, you neither raised any ‘reasonable objections’ or brought a new dimension to this debate. If you want to defend your religion, do so like others have in this thread. Although the only two people who defended Islam against his unfounded arguments could not keep away from peddling in the lower levels of disrepute themselves, they atleast addressed the points in the article. I’m not defending Mr.Goth nor do I agree with his views, however his views were general and his comments concerned diinta. The only way to reply to this would be to go heads on against these views without any reference to the person themselves. That is called debating and a skill most Somalis have yet to learn (including myself).

 

I dont like how some Muslims represent Islam. Their attitude is unprofessional, uncivilized and most of all somehow becomes cheap and less credible with all the underhanded, hate-filled ('dirty kuffar', 'die die cuz ur not a muslim' undertone! :rolleyes: ) comments. I want people who speak for my religion to have integrity, rationale and understand their opponents. I want them to make sense to me and the next gaal in the same manner ( the operative word is ‘sense’, not acceptable). Islam has always been a reasonable religion and it annoys me when its constantly being paraded as hateful and intolerant. To be honest with you bro, and its Ramadan, I always feel like my ‘Imaan’ increases when I keep away from Islam discussions on SOL and absolutely ignore people who argue like you and think of you as ….. well… not my ideal Muslim. You come across as (not are) judgmental, angry, hateful, intolerant of differing views and irrational… not traits of a good Muslim, wouldn’t u say? We live in a global village, you cant sell your ideas with that attitude.

 

In general on SOL, we always tend to focus on the unimportant aspects of diinta while the most important are either trivialized or not discussed at all. We like to discuss polygamy in great lengths, worry about the intentions of the posters (Oh how I miss the good old days of SOL where we were all equal Muslims with no1 addressed like they r more pious – eg. How you responded to Ducaqabe who agreed with me) or force-feed people with hadeeth accompanied by no explanation/elaboration.

 

Anyways, I need a boost and I’m keeping off till the end of the month (and maybe for good from these topics).

 

Salaamaat.

[-Serenity-]

p.s.

 

Alle-U-Baahne, I dont have anything against you personally or even doubt your intentions - just your tone and attitude sometimes and I hope you realize that. I wish you have a gr8 Ramadan and come back with more sabr and raxmah.