Islamic Reform ( e-Nuri Magnification factor 10)

[Nur]

Lets see where the Islamic Reform Movement Is heading to:

 

From e- Nuri Archives:

 

 

The Prophet SAWS said " You will follow the footsteps of nations before you , The companions asked : Chritians and Jews ? the Prophet SAWS answered " Then who else ?"

 

 

Some so-called "Muslims" rasied in the west with no clue of what Islam stands for, from time to time get conufused and suggest off the shelf interesting suggestions to modernize Islam in order to make it a "NORMAL" world religion.

 

One such suggestion caught my eyes once in Somalinet boards. I immediately responded impulsively, but you can only appreciate my response if you are knowledgeable in Christian history. So be careful when you read this piece, it pushes the envelope of warped imagination of confused "Muslims" to new hights.

 

A poster calling himself "O Jay" posted an article on Somalinet boards and Suggested the establishment of an Islamic Protestant Church to modernise Muslims to teach them the benefits of Democracy like the USA.

 

As a response, I wrote back the following piece to help Mr. O Jay establish his dream of Islamic protestantism Church, all I did was go back in history and rebuild his version of Islam like christianity was built, so relax, this rendering is an imaginitive lampoon of his funny suggestion.

 

 

My Answer to O Jay.

 

 

Interesting Idea O JAY

 

 

Let us see where your Vision and idea takes us.

 

First, we will have the Islamic Nicean Convention, in the Mediterranean Port of Nicea, near Cyprus, There, we will have President Bush as the Chairman of the Convention, since he is a Sourthern Babtist, his presence and power can intimidate delegates to adopt Islamic Protestantism. His position will be analogous to the place of the Roman King De Niro who presided over the First Nicean convention in the second century in which Christians decalred that There are three Godheads.

 

The delegates who will come from all parts of Muslim world, will be named by your organization, Islamic Protestantism Organization, and because you do not have enough members to make a big difference, The National Institue of Health will CLONE you to be five thousand people who want Islamic Protestantanism. Meanwhile, Twenty "backward" clerics like NUR who will disagree with your plan will also be invited for the sake of fairness in the elections. At the end of the Convention, Genetically altered delegates, who are your clones, will declare that Allah is God , Muhammad is Son of God and Ali is the holy spirit, but these three are ONE . Welcome the Islamic Trinity.

 

 

Now we have the Muslim TRINITY.

 

 

Next, The Clones will author some two hundred books of Quraans, each one different version, The authors will have only one name, just like MARK, LUKE and MATHEW etc, and nobody will bother to verify their original names, and many sects will appear who will begin to fight and cause trouble for the peace of the New World Order.

 

Due to this confusion, the New Worl Order Government decides to give the Islamic Catholics a small state in Morocco, which will be called Islamic Vatican, where the Muslim Pope sits. He begins to bless people , feed them pieces of PITA Bread, and Islamic wine named ZOMZOM, The Pope will sell to them pieces of Paradise for $1000 per square meter while supplies last for the next century, he will allow all the sinning you can buy for a sizable donation to the Islamic Church, and if you can describe tidbits to the priest during your confession, The Church may even offer you a lucrative Job as the youth counsellor, where you have an opportunity to molest kids.

 

The New Islamic Church which you envision, will teach that all you have to do is believe that Muhammad died for your sins, so no more guilty feeling when indulging in your lusts. Islamic Catholics will be able to enjoy good things in life like wine and girl friends. In schools they will have Islamic Choirs, singing, "O my Lord Muhammad please save me". The Islamic Catholics will sell Statues of Muhammad, and Ali, and The Mowliid, Muhammad's birthday will be the Islamic Chrismas, when Islamic Catholics will import Chrismass trees from Norway and Sweden. The Islamic Nativity sites, In Islamic Catholics Mosques there will be a Statue of Muhammad , Halima, Khadija, Fatma, Aisha, Maymuna, Safia.

 

At This point many Muslim Catholics who live in Germany will become upset by the Church in Morocco, and is commercialization of the Religion. The Islamic protestanism movement begins, led by one of the decendents of your clones, his name will be Martin Luther O JAY, and the Islamic Protestant church is established.

 

Then the Protestants differ on many issues, so new sub groups are born, Islamic Southern Babtists, Islamic Seven day adventist, Islamic Methodists, Islamic Mennonites, Islamic Presbyterians, and Islamic Unitarians, etc...and the list goes on.

 

Finally, people become upset with religion altogeter, and become more Secular, Religion will become a big joke, and a one day Services for geriatric old couples in their 90s, while girls an boys will be going to church to chat and socialize, and plan weekend parties.

 

At the end, your Demonic Dream of Democracy will be realized when Gays and Lesbians are ordained as Islamic Protestant Sheikhs in your Islamic Protestant Church who will make everything under the sun Xalaal.

 

 

Is that what you had in mind O JAY?

 

 

Nur

 

 

2002 Nurtel Lampoons unlimited

[RendezVous]

^^^Thanks for this kind of Research..I have a lot of respect for YOU Brother Nur.

 

Brothers and sisters, please listen to those words and try to do something..

[Nur]

Rendevous

 

I missed your response, just browsed and found, if you are still around please read on.

 

 

Trying to reform Islam to be like Christianity is based on the notion that since western countries are predominantly Christians, and that they have progressed very well in terms of processess, systems of civility, technology and business in comparison with Muslims world, then, Islam must be reformed to be like christianity for Muslims to catch up with developed Nations.

 

So the first thing to start with to validate that assumption is to compare the fundemental creeds of the two faiths. We shall examine the Christian Creed, and Muslim Creed.

 

Here is the Christian Creed reached after many days of Political negotiations, political maneuvering, threats, like the UN resolutions you can smell the Coffee Anan aroma of hypocracy and Natioonal bribery.

 

The Nicene Creed, ELLC Translation

 

 

We believe in one God,

the Father, the Almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all that is, seen and unseen.

 

 

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

the only Son of God,

eternally begotten of the Father,

God from God, light from light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made,

of one Being with the Father;

through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation

he came down from heaven,

was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary

and became truly human.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;

he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again

in accordance with the Scriptures;

he ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,

and his kingdom will have no end.

 

 

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],

who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,

who has spoken through the prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

 

...................................................................................................

 

The Muslim CREED

 

 

The Muslim Creed follows, By Allah alone, no delegates, no bribes, nor intimidations, no Kings, no slaves, no Masters, God in Person Speaks About Himself, confirming what he is, and denying blasphemy he is NOT.

 

Suurah Al Nur ( Light)

 

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as (if there were) a niche and within it a lamp, the lamp is in glass, the glass as it were a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east (i.e. neither it gets sun-rays only in the morning) nor of the west (i.e. nor it gets sun-rays only in the afternoon, but it is exposed to the sun all day long), whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself), though no fire touched it. Light upon Light! Allah guides to His Light whom He wills. And Allah sets forth parables for mankind, and Allah is All-Knower of everything.

 

 

Suurah Al Baqarah:

 

Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursi.]

 

 

Suurah Al Ikhlaas ( Exclsusive Worship)

 

 

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.

 

2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).

 

3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;

 

4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

 

 

Dear Reader

 

Now which CREED is easy to understand?

 

..And Follow?

 

 

Welcome To Islam, The natural Choice!

 

 

Nur

[SeeKer]

Originally posted by Nur:

Rendevous

 

Trying to reform Islam to be like Christianity is based on the notion that since western countries are predominantly Christians, and that they have progressed very well in terms of processess, systems of civility, technology and business in comparison with Muslims world, then, Islam must be reformed to be like christianity for Muslims to catch up with developed Nations.

 

Thats not what all Islamic reformers are calling for. So Nur, since you brought the topic up why don't you deal with the real issues about Islamic reform. Which is basically the adherence of Muslims to the Islamic creed.

 

You touch on something when you say that some "muslims" do want to reform Islam in the likeness of christianity i.e innovations of the west and whatnot. Could this be due to Christianity being perceived as relatively simple (believe someone already atoned for your sins and all you have to do is accept them as your saviour). Mind you I am over simplifying the creed. Islam on the other hand expects you to live your life in a certain fashion, following certain rules that are in place to protect, sustain and prepare you for the other world. The constant vigilance expected from muslims is sometimes the straw that broke the camel's back, wouldn't you say?

 

Personally I think with the different sects of Islam emerging, we should concentrate on what makes us similar (Quran and Sunnah) instead of what makes us different. Maybe if we were to mold a moderate Islamic state that does function like clockwork (within its borders) as opposed to the current Islamic states in existance.

 

Ps:- Whats with you all of a sudden going to the archives. The well ran dry or something?

[Nur]

Seeker

 

You observe:

 

Thats not what all Islamic reformers are calling for. So Nur, since you brought the topic up why don't you deal with the real issues about Islamic reform. Which is basically the adherence of Muslims to the Islamic creed.

 

 

Answer:

 

Issues forf which some "Muslims" suggested to be refomed widely vary, this particular response was specific to a suggestion of the creation of an Islamic Protestant Movement, similar that in Europe that revolted against the pope. So, this particular one is specific.

 

You write:

 

You touch on something when you say that some "muslims" do want to reform Islam in the likeness of christianity i.e innovations of the west and whatnot. Could this be due to Christianity being perceived as relatively simple (believe someone already atoned for your sins and all you have to do is accept them as your saviour). Mind you I am over simplifying the creed. Islam on the other hand expects you to live your life in a certain fashion, following certain rules that are in place to protect, sustain and prepare you for the other world. The constant vigilance expected from muslims is sometimes the straw that broke the camel's back, wouldn't you say?

 

 

Answer:

 

Sound observation, my whole point was cenetered around that, Paradise plots being sold for 1000 bucks, all the sins you have forgiven, just sing, sing and sing at Choirs. The piece was targeted for a Muslim audience, not a Chritian, thus it did not highlight ahet you've suggetsed since Muslims are Familiar with it, I only lampooned what theyy dont know.

 

You write:

 

Personally I think with the different sects of Islam emerging, we should concentrate on what makes us similar (Quran and Sunnah) instead of what makes us different. Maybe if we were to mold a moderate Islamic state that does function like clockwork (within its borders) as opposed to the current Islamic states in existance.

 

 

Answer:

 

This piece again had a specific goal, showing Somalis where the bandwaga of religious reform championed by Somalis who work for NGOs o rChurch groups are trying to see what they can get away with in terms of "revolutionizing islam" as they call it by making it all things to all people without reservation.

 

You write:

 

Ps:- Whats with you all of a sudden going to the archives. The well ran dry or something?

 

Answer:

 

For several reasons:

 

1. Somaliaonline browsers are referred to us NOMADS, they are constantly changing audience as many move on with their lives and new ones drop by, so in that regard , every issue is relevant from their view and they see it as new.

 

2. I am a one man net activist, reruns of old issues are the bread and butter for my new audience while I am cooking new foods for their thought.

 

 

Seeker bro. As for the wider Islamic issues that you have suggested, I am very much concerned, and to that end I have many posts and debates, I have debated Sufis, Seculars, Shia on these boards, as for the unity issue, I believe that it is a necessity, Islamic streams of thought are lego pieces, we may not see how they fit each other to make a picture, but with patience, the picture shall be clear inshAllah, Islam as a world faith, system and lifestyle, is an eventuality that will happen, we have to excercise utmost care not to add to confusion, as for joining efforts of all Islamic rennaisance movements? again, that is on the way, I am very thankful to Condoleeza Rice for helping solve Somali Tribal Civil War by aiding the criminals known as the bad 9 Warlords ( Wa kaana fil madiinati tiscatu rahtin, yufsiduuna fil ardi walaa yuslixuun) Now, with a timely help from a woman our own color, Condi, for the first time show Islamic unity and tribalism is losing its appeal. Thanks Condi, I will post a thank you letter on this forum.

 

 

Nur