Is a woman only worth her children? BBC debate!

[Blessed]

I'm asumming that you've all heard about the hospital conflict. Some doctor got into a whole lot of trouble for removing the womb of his patient.

 

 

This is an interesting follow up debate / article.....!!

 

 

The BBC's Africa Live programme asks: Is a woman worth more than the children she bears?

 

 

In Somalia, a hospital in the capital Mogadishu was forced to shut for five weeks following threats to a doctor who removed a woman's womb.

 

Dr Bashir Sheikh said the operation had saved Mrs Fatuma Abdulle's life because she was carrying a dead foetus.

 

Fatuma's family sent gunmen to the SOS hospital, saying she was as good as dead, without a womb.

 

 

We had consent from her husband to do whatever was necessary to save her life

 

Dr Bashir Sheikh

 

 

Mogadishu doctor defends his actions

 

The family demanded 50 camels from the doctor - the traditional Somali compensation offered for the death of a woman.

 

Prompted by this story, Africa Live! looks at how childbearing or childlessness affects a woman's identity and status.

 

Is a woman only worth the children she bears?

 

To what extent would you go - as a man or a woman - to get a baby?

 

 

Read other ppl's responses / post your own

 

I'm a little surprised that the worth of a woman is being questioned by Somalis. I didn't think that Somalis were that ignorant :eek: Perhaps, some folks are misusing the case to make some money... Or is this a case of prejudiced reporting?

 

Whats thinks you :confused:

[NGONGE]

It’s understandable that the woman’s family were upset about her losing her womb. I wouldn’t say a woman’s life is judged by the children she bears but you’ve got to admit that as a nation (and as encouraged by our faith) the bearing of children is very important to us. My comments here regard Muslims in every other part of the world, not Somalia though. That place currently goes by different rules. In fact, I always find it amusing when I see westerners grumbling about the proliferation of the compensation culture. They should try going to Somalia to see how it’s really done. Nobody’s life is worth anything in that place. Everyone is a tool. Women are the most profitable type though. They’re the geese that lay golden eggs (or was it golden camels?). I’ve heard of countless stories of old pensioners living in the West who go back to Somalia and get seduced by a young teenage girls then end up marrying them. A week later the girl would complain that she does not want to stay with the old man and asks to be released from the marriage. The girl’s family will ask the old man not enter the town/city/village until he had paid her what she’s owed or they’ll kill him! These people are a law unto themselves. They follow whatever path will make them the most money and they take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself (such as a female relative losing her womb!).

 

 

Talking about women and child bearing in general though, without being insensitive or harsh, I would say a good, strong and healthy young woman who is able to give birth to healthy kids can’t be judged in terms of worth and value, the scales are not big enough for that! That kind of woman is priceless. I’m using the measurements of us mere mortals here by the way. I’m sidestepping the (obvious) point about her worth in religious terms (Taqwa, etc) because little old me is in no position to judge people from that angle.

 

 

Go forth and multiply, baby :cool:

[LadyDotNet]

I'm a little surprised that the worth of a woman is being questioned by Somalis. I didn't think that Somalis were that ignorant Perhaps, some folks are misusing the case to make some money... Or is this a case of prejudiced reporting?

 

Nothing surprises me anymore; I take everything with a pinch of salt. There is nothing new here -greedy people always shout the loudest, or the seriousness of the situation was not fully understood by the family.

It’s not a question of worth as Somalis in general hold the women in high esteem – I tend to turn a deaf ear to those who undermine the value of a women – I hear them not.

Hungry, ignorant, selfish people will demand anything and everything to get something. However the story sounds suspect to me – A gunmen is sent to the hospital to threaten the doctor yet her husband told the doctor to do whatever that’s necessary to save her life - I wonder who this family they are referring to, surely I can’t see it being her parents – maybe distant relatives seeing this as an opportunity to make some money?

Whatever the reason, there is only one person sufferring here and I pray Allah makes her strong and increases her Imaan. Ameen.

[OG_Girl]

Oooh is very sad !. Is way to go to educated our people. God helps her .Ameen

 

Salam

[Qac Qaac]

what the hell there is no debate here, of course u have to save the mother, even if the kid is alive, but if the decision one has to live, then the mother should be that person. our ppl need to learn the fiqh of islam, and prioritizing coz the mother lived before him and she is the person should be saved, if the scenirio is like this.

[checkmate]

In Somalia, a hospital in the capital Mogadishu was forced to shut for five weeks following threats to a doctor who removed a woman's womb.

 

this story is fictitious, no hospital in mogadishu has ever been shut becouse of a few gunmen's threats (siyaad bare would never allow such thing)honestly it's beyond imaginary for such story to take place in somalia at that time or any time for that matter. somalia is one of the only third world countries (muslin or non muslim) that acknowledges women rights and thier class in sociaty, let me go up a notch (if a man beats up his wife and she goes to her family n tells them what he did, her father n brothers will beat the living sence outta him, if not kill him)...... ... another scenario......

(if a women is not happyly married or is fed-up with her husband, she will go to her father n tell him she doesn't want this man anymore she wants divorce, after few warnings of (itaqal laah) he will give in) we had women doctors, flight attendents, bankers, lawyers, teachers, principals, intrapreneurs,import n export business

owners. so i say how on earth is a somali woman worth more than the children she bears. so my take is i don't think such story happened n even if it did, it had a different version to it>>>

 

the so called dr.bashir shiekh is tuug lacag raadsanaayo iyo ceebta umadeena

 

asxantu

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

this story is fictitious, no hospital in mogadishu has ever been shut becouse of a few gunmen's threats (siyaad bare would never allow such thing

Saaxiib, where were you in the past month? This explosive story was covered by most Soomaali websites out there, plus international media, including Reuters, BBC, AP, and IRIN. Yes, it DID really happen. {And I thought Siyaad Barre left Muqdisho 14 years ago, no?}.

 

Wax waxaas ka xun aa Soomaaliya maanta ka dhaco ee hala yaabin. And it wasn't the dhakhtarka who is seeking "wealth" or publicity, but the woman's family for some compensation.

 

Even Aamiin Caamir was inspired by that story to illustrate in his latest editorial cartoon.

 

 

Anyway, one of the Islaamic courts in Xamar settled the case, rewarding the family $2,000, and the doctor agreed to pay. He already performed a surgery the other day.

[OG Moti]

This is where i get upset with our sisters, a stuupid Western channel uses a report whether it is true or not is not the issue, the issue is our sisters start to calaacal and criticize their beloved country, this story is weird and I have some skepticism about its legitimacy, first of all “geel wax bixiyo majiraan hada” sida kale qof xamar joogo geela laga bixinayo xaguu kayimid, mise waxaa lamaqlay geela waa liska hel helaa..? This is brain wash to the Muslim females and it seems to be it is working pretty good with Somali girl … Allaha hana ga soo gaaro Amiin dhaha?

PEaCe

[NGONGE]

somalia is one of the only third world countries (muslin or non muslim) that acknowledges women rights and thier class in sociaty, let me go up a notch (if a man beats up his wife and she goes to her family n tells them what he did, her father n brothers will beat the living sence outta him, if not kill him)...... ... another scenario......

(if a women is not happyly married or is fed-up with her husband, she will go to her father n tell him she doesn't want this man anymore she wants divorce, after few warnings of (itaqal laah) he will give in) we had women doctors, flight attendents, bankers, lawyers, teachers, principals, intrapreneurs,import n export business

owners.

I agree that we acknowledge women’s rights and their class in society. They’re second-class and they have no rights whatsoever. Lets get real here, man. All these women who whinge and complain about their treatment by men can’t be simple trouble makers who are having a bad day, can they? As for your example of a wife getting beaten by her husband who consequently receives protection from her father and brothers, well there is nothing civilised about that one at all. An eye for an eye, was it? How does that differ from the family of the woman who in retaliation for her treatment shut the hospital and tried to attack the doctor? After all, the main method of arbitration here is violence. You seem to condone one surely you’ll condone the other too! There is something really rotten about the whole thing but that’s what happens in ignorant societies.

[Blessed]

Ngonge

I agree with most of your comments. However, there are many women who through no fault of their her own are unable to have children. Isn't questioning their worth is like questioning their level of taqwa? Who is anyone to say qaofkaasu qiimo ma leh hadaanu caruur dhali karin?

 

 

See this sister is blessed in the sense that she already has children. So, I don't even know how her family can use this arguement :rolleyes:

 

Always Learning

Whatever the reason, there is only one person sufferring here and I pray Allah makes her strong and increases her Imaan. Ameen.

Amiin sis!

 

It’s really odd how the woman is very silent in this whole case; All the articles seem to focuse on what her husband said and what her relatives did. But what about her? Surely, she’s old enough to speak for herself!

 

And, the poor Doctor. He did what he had to do, yet he is being penalized for it?

 

God, I really thought that we were better than this.

 

 

Checkmate and OGMoti

 

Slow down brothers, waad taalbo dheeraateen. I'm sorry if this hurts you outsized egos.. BUT this debate isn't about you

I don't fancy bashing Farah's on this occasion, so don't push me :mad:

 

Sheekadani siduu MMA idiinku sheegay waa mid dhab ah. It is happening now, ok?!

 

This thread is about the value of the women in society. Is a a woman to be regarded only for her role in childbirth? are we right to treat those who are unable to have children as outcasts? The moral state of our nation and dilemmas faced by our doctors- should the doctor be forced to pay for doing his job?

 

What are your views?

[NGONGE]

I wasn’t making a comparison between women that can have children and those that can’t. I was only praising those that can. As I said earlier, a woman’s worth is not judged by her ability to have children or not. If that was the only measurement then the praise would have been totally false. It’ll be something akin to praising a healthy cow or camel! Everything about her personality and upbringing will have to come into play. To judge her as a person(by human measurements and perceptions) we’ll have to take everything about her into account. The childbearing bit might be a bonus or a curse in that case. No point in saying so and so is a great woman because she has ten children if so and so isn’t also a good mother. Still, most people look to have children and when choosing a spouse they go about it hoping that their chosen partner will be able to have children. If in Allah’s (swt) great wisdom he decided to “deprive”(for lack of a better word) some people from experiencing that joy, it does not mean they’re less worthy.

 

Your second question about the doctor and his ability to perform his duties in peace is easy to respond to (not that the response will be of any use of course). In a well-organised and correctly functioning state doctors will rarely have to experience the difficulties and problems that doctors in Somalia face right now. People live in a state of anarchy and many only respect the law of the gun. The majority of rational thinking people will disagree with the way this doctor has been treated but because that place does not function along the lines of morality or rational thinking, people don’t really bother themselves with such problems, unless they’re related to that doctor or the problems he’s facing stop him from treating them. The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum.

 

[OG Moti]

Sister Amaani i am not getting defensive this is not a debate, this has lots of hidden agendas, see first of all, in terms of women abuse and human abuse, I don’t see it here.. the lady was safed and I am sure her family and husband were happy, beside the doctor consulted with the husband before he even operate..

BBC ? they want a debate.. let them go to Iraq or Afghanistan, they can have what they want, US, Iraqis and Afghanis all 3 will give them the debate they looking for…

 

Let me go back to Somalia and Women:

Somalia is one of the few countries that women have a lot of powers, Somalia is a unique country see

- Women have a role, they know it and they do it well, and the men know it and don’t interfere how women perform they duties in live

- Men have a role, they know it and Somali women know it, some men now a days may not perform their role well, which making Somali women complain about it, and exaggerate and dramatize their complaining stories..

 

however I only blame women, cause Somali men don’t beat up women, it is a shameful act in Somalia if you beat up a female, so if the man is not performing his duties, she can walk away and don’t look back, instead they choose to complain and make fuss out it.

 

To my sisters:

I honestly advice you to think for yourselves and don’t fall to these Westernize ideas, western people like drama, and Somali women are good in creating Dramas, so don’t seek they approval by bashing your brothers’ reputation, I know some eat Qaad and are not responsible, but they don’t harm you, they harm themselves and if you are a wife of one of those.. walk away, that is all you have to do instead of hunting TV shows and newspapers by building a drama and ruining your country men…

 

Go east (Indho yar, Kenyati) or Go west (Cadaan ure, negerian uff, Jamaican akhas)[/i]

Somali man will be the only one who appreciates you even if he doesn’t show it…

 

peace

[Qac Qaac]

waraa 508 nice advice, but i hope bro u r wearing shields, coz the attacks will begin soon. let me just get my pop corn so i could enjoy watching it.

[Paragon]

I think the BBC's article has an intention of fascilitating a bit of conceptional re-adjusting. Look at what is happening in this topic alone. We seem to have gone deep into discussing whats ethical and what isn't, and what a woman is worth. Similar to this topic, the comments on the BBC's page seem to been selected purposefully.

 

Some of the comments posted there are generated in a angery, iritated, and to extent contmpted manner, all directed towards Somali culture. The comments do not ask why the BBC correlates the entirety of Womankind to one Somali case, drawing the wrong attention - that equates racial insightment - to Somalis . I don't know why the BBC hasn't started a debate about 'Women's worth' that is independent from cultural streotypes.

The story emanating from Somalia not only borders on insanity but also reflects a very primitive mind set.

Jacob Agola, U.S.A

PS: A woman is worth more.

[Blessed]

Sister Amaani i am not getting defensive this is not a debate,

You are!

 

 

Go east

(Indho yar, Kenyati)

or Go west

(Cadaan ure, negerian uff, Jamaican akhas)

[/i]

Somali man will be the only one who appreciates you even if he doesn’t show it…

lol. And your not being defensive, eh?

I wasn't even talking about dating marrying other men. This topic isn't even about Somali men. It's not comparing them to other men and I most certainly have not insulted the worth of Somaali men.

 

But you just couldn't help but go there, could ya?

 

Let me go back to Somalia and Women:

Somalia is one of the few countries that women have a lot of powers, Somalia is a unique country see

Agreed! But I wasn't questioning that!

 

....and exaggerate and dramatize their complaining stories .....however I only blame women, cause Somali men don’t beat up women, it is a shameful act in Somalia if you beat up a female, so if the man is not performing his duties, she can walk away and don’t look back, instead they choose to complain and make fuss out it.

Hehehehehehe! Waa runtaa, maybe she can get herslve a Jamaican :rolleyes:

 

 

NGONGE,

I agree. I guess, we’ve turned into anarchists in every sense of the word.

 

Jamaal 11

 

I suppose it’s how you look at it. The BBC always starts debates based on their latest stories. The comments there are valid to those who post them. I liked this one >>

I believe, the average Somali man respects Somali women more than a European would respect his female counterpart.

 

Fatima Hassan, Hargeisa, Somaliland

I thought this topic would provide a break from the 'What turns you in farax' / 'why do xaliimos not say hello' type of threads - no pun intended to any nomad.

 

 

 

 

Qax, Qaac

Some things never change, eh?

:rolleyes: