Prof. Samatar, Elephants, Somalis, and History

[Cicero]

*********this was a violation of SOL rules. Please avoid mocking other people's faith.************

 

[ February 04, 2010, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]

[Paragon]

Oh no he didn't! Now he's put his foot in it. Expect the expected.

[Che -Guevara]

I don't understand this perverse need to convince people to come to your side.We get it, you have reason on your side and billions of people are fools for believing in magical fairies.

 

You are intentionally mocking people's deep-held beliefs and offending them deliberately!

 

As for what Samatar wrote, it is intellectual laziness at best!!

 

 

Paragon I don't understand why you are grinning?

[Cicero]

Che, sxb, stop focusing on tangential personal issues. Derision is not my intention; nor was it the intention of the Professor. Let's not get distracted by imaginary, ulterior motives. This is about nature of objectivity and knowledge. I have a dear Christian freind, a meek and gentle faith-head. She really believes that the resurrection story of Jesus is a historical fact, that he was actually raised from the dead. One has to distinguish historical propositions from theological ones. This thread is meant to introduce the discpline of History to lay readers. History is not all bunk. Mythology, on the other hand, is.

[Geel_jire]

Originally posted by Cicero:

Derision is not my intention; nor was it the intention of the Professor. Let's not get distracted by imaginary, ulterior motives. This is about nature of objectivity and knowledge.

really ?

 

"Muhammad flew to outer-space on a winged-donkey in 621"

 

This sounds like derision to me. you are scraping the bottom of the barrel here .. if you really are interested in a discussion I advise you change the tone of your content.

 

you may disbelieve if you like but why should I or anyone engage you if all your good for is to throw around insults like cartoonish theology and faith heads.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Che -Guevara:

Paragon

I don't understand why you are grinning? [/QB]

I grin because i've read Samatar's whole article earlier, and I think he's far too a-stray this time around, and I predict a riot. The ensuing drama is worth the popcorn.

 

PS: Why is he speaking as though he himself is Ethiopian? Or is it because he was addressing Institute of Ethiopian studies? He speaks as though he was - in another life- the subject of periphery Abyssinian colony.

[Cicero]

************deleted**********

 

[ February 04, 2010, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]

[Paragon]

^Cicero, what kind of historians are defending, if I might ask a more basic question. Which theoretical lens are sporting: an orthodox or revisionist one? Let us know that first, please.

 

Second, are there any empirical evidence that currently exist [or existed, say, even 5 centuries ago], which lend credence to the validity of the Professor's version of history on this particular matter?

 

PS: It's best to assign 'truths' to some accounts than to 'facts'. Truths can embody a host of things, miracles included, while facts are just, well, the tricks of so-called 'objectivity' - as if there could ever be 'objective facts'. As a critical theorist (and more to that, a disciple of ecosophyT), I don't believe it.

[Che -Guevara]

Cicero...I'm assuming you are Somali and if you weren't, you well know the particular words or language that you used to describe the said event is merely to offend people and not sincere effort to engage in timely debate. What you wrote is not conducive to healthy discussion.

 

 

And as for "meek" Christian, I don't understand why you have problem with her faith or anyone's faith? More importantly, what makes you think people of faith are not aware of the very history you are using to taunt their faith? Who do you think wrote the history and narrated it through the ages?

 

 

Paragon Samatar sounds like defeatist and seems to condoning the oppression of the highlanders and their jingoistic approach to the Oromo, the Somali, Afar, etc.

[Chimera]

What a disgusting piece of puppycock. The most important historical sites of the Axumites are in modern Eritrea, that is where the culture started not 'modern Ethiopia', that has only retained the namesake city. The Axumites and the modern entity of Ethiopia are not the same, in any way, thats like equating Babylon with modern Iraq.

 

Secondly it was the Ethiopian Christian encroachment, oppression and bullying that saw the birth of Ahmed Guray, the way he portrays that episode you would think Ahmed came without a reason. He came to defend the flourishing cities of the Somali peninsula whose ancient ruins are a testimony to their former splendour, indeed they never needed an ''Ethiopian'' to build those cities or lead them to India, Arabia, China and Europe with whom they traded.

 

He uses Ethiopia's script as a reason for its destined leadership role, completely ignoring that it was largely confined to a small region of Ethiopia. There is not a single example of Ethiopian literature that has influenced Christianity globally the way Somali scholars influenced millions around the muslim world. The Somali language according to the 19th century Captain Owen was spoken all across East Africa and as far south as Cape Town, basically being a lingua franca in trade and religion.

 

Ethiopia's anti-colonial struggle does not make it a leader of the Horn, for the Somali colonial resistance was just as intense, if not more considering the multiple enemies we faced as opposed to their single enemy. The Dervishes inspired and had followers in Germany and parts of Africa and Middle East too.

 

With Ethiopia's trackrecord of abuse and tyranny, it does not bode well for the Horn, if individuals in powers actually take the words of this self-depreciating Professor serious.

[xiinfaniin]

How astonishing!

 

In his recent sojourn in Addis, poor Said Samatar seems to have forgotten everything he supposedly learnt. Intellectual honest. Impartiality. Academic integrity. And all the nice stuff one learns in school.

 

Not only did he give uncharacteristically spurious speech full of counterfeit references to an Ethiopian historical majesty and false parallels but he also delivered it in a tone that ironically reeks with zealous pride. I think Adam did a good job in exposing the hollowness of this piece.

 

For me, the poor professor reminded me the man who needlessly lost his eyes.

 

Once upon a time, two men decided to get some favors from a king. They arrived the royal court, and quickly greeted the guards, announcing their desire for permission to see the king. The chamberlain informed the king for their presence, giving him their names. The king recognized the men, and gave them prompt permission for them to come in to have audience with him. As the two men sit in on waiting section of the royal court, the king appeared in a charitable mood, and begun speaking to them: I know you have come seeking favors from me. I want you to go back and think long and hard the type of favors you ask me. I will let the guards know that you will come back to see me again.

 

He also informed them that whatever prize the first man gets, the second would get double of that award.

 

Who would see the king first? Naturally each of the two men decided to be the last one to see the king. Each one delayed his arrival so the other man gets there first. As each decided to sit out of the other, the wait for the king’s prize become unnecessarily long. Then finally one man had enough of the ordeal, and decided to see the king with a wicked thought. When he was asked what he decided to ask the king, the man said: I want my left eye to be taken out . It was promptly done. The second man came in praising the king to collect twice the award the first man got, and he lost both of his eyes.

 

 

Labadii indhood buu beelay

[Tuujiye]

^^^ Xiin I know that story and qabiil ayaana lugu caayaa.... but we get your point...

 

 

Cicero are you a non muslim?

 

 

Wareer Badanaa!!!!

[xiinfaniin]

^^Awoowe qabiil lagu caayyo waa kayga, and I dont mind it.

 

Focus on the point

[Jacaylbaro]

Samatarkaas baad idinkuna wax ka sugaysaan ,,,

[xiinfaniin]

^^Samatar wax jira maaha

 

waa eber