Reverse psychology?

[Curly]

MMMhh... I thought about posting this comment in the Sweden’s next top model thread but thought hey this needs a topic all on its own!

 

I'm confused about the way people interpret the deen especially when it comes to modesty. Even as a child I used to questioning this.

I’m referring to the way the modesty is portrayed as beauty and bearing flesh as ugly. I know Allah said to be modest but the idea is to hide your beauty not to mask your unsightliness. So why is it that more than often the Somali community tends to call models like Hawa Ahmed, Iman and Waris ugly because they flaunt their skin? Yes it's haraam but the human body isn't disgusting.

At a young age I was told the hijab makes you beautiful, but the objective of the hijab is completely the opposite. Sure it's beautiful in its own right but you have to agree that wasn't the purpose at all.

Is this reverse psychology? Because if it is... it's see through. In any rate it’s an unhealthy way of thinking in my eyes; demonising sexuality tends to lead to mischief. Look at most Arab or supposedly Muslim countries.

[Som@li]

Hijab makes you beautiful in a Halal way, in Islam, it is Haram for men even to look at a woman dressed like these Models.

 

Uglys is associated something bad, while good is associated beautiful.

 

Once you were hijab you will look beautiful/good.

 

Btw,A Muslim woman with Hijab looks very pretty.

[Al-Muminah]

Salaama alaykum,

 

I said that she's not much of a ''looker'', if that constitutes being ugly, haye. It has nothing to do with flauntly one's attributes, or showing the cawrah, just the fact that being a model isn't hard. I know tons of more beautiful Somali women than Hawa and she's not that great looking, especially when you see her without make-up.

 

As for women who wear the hijab being more beautiful, men shouldn't be looking anyway. Lower your gaze.

[Nephissa]

To me it's more of a common sense than it's a reverse psycology. The human body isn't disgusting. Last I checked that is how we are born, naked. Anyone religious should know and not be ashamed of what God made. That doesn't mean we have to resort to showing everyone all our love pillows [and then some], beauty is after all a state of mind/an attitude/a feeling..without ever showing skin.

 

Iman, Waris and Hawa are not really pretty, markaan arko I only see naago dheer, oo qaawan suffering from an assortment of eating disorders and I dare say are not likely to be in the good health most hijaabis are in. Dhiskasting they are runtii!

[cynical lady]

More often than not it’s when your wearing hijaab that you become a sexual object am sorry that to me defeats the notion that hijab makes you beautiful in a halal way, are you saying when one is not wearing hijab they are beautiful in a haraam way? Even in your own words (dabshiid) there BAD, I mean who are you to pass judgement, when did religion leap from a private matter to public crusade especially against unhijabi woman, how many mahadaro I have seen that makes a point in attacking this woman …..my darling sue this reverse psychology especially in our society has penetrated to its own foundation, people deem woman who don’t wear hijabs =sinful, ugly some even go as far as to call them names that I care not to mention…the so called models if they were not stunners on their own right am sure they would not have been as successful as they have become? By stating that this models are not in good health as most hijabis are am sorry that’s just ignorant, I have seen plenty of hijabis who wear the full Ninja to hide there growing overweight issue and god only knows when last they used deodorant, so these girls are skinny does that mean there anorexia? Rich as they are am sure they can afford the gym, nutritionist and since there body is there livelihood they are duty bound to maintain it so how can we assume that they fall short to the hijabis just because there not fat enough?

 

 

This is all bulshidh, why the comparison between the two I never understand, most importantly a hijabi in skinny jeans and small top and non-hijabi the prior is regarded more beautiful just because she is wearing hijab ohh the hypocrisy

 

Ps why is it in our community hijab defines the person who wears it as good and the one not as bad in all aspect of their lives? It does not matter whether the non-hijabi is a good person has never done anything to warrant her to be called lose or anything, but due to her choice she is deemed so, while the other yes she wears the hijab but she might be committing all sorts of sins under the sun but that piece of material acts as defence? This is bulshidh

[umu zakaria]

Nephy I couldnt agree with you more. U said it all. bless u

[Blessed]

Woah @ Cynical.

 

I see your approach is to fight ignorance with bitter ignorance. LOL.

 

 

I think people were expressing their views on how she looked. I thought the debate was more about her being so skinny and lacking femininity due to her boyish looks. This critique is not exclusive to Somalis, your well aware of the size zero debate and the feminist argument that the industry is trying to make women more like men.

 

As for your question, when people refer to hijabis / modest women as beautiful, they are talking about what they represent rather than their physical features, which obviously can't be seen. You see none Muslims say the say same about modest women, so it’s not exclusive to hijab and again, Somalis.

 

I don't think the hijab makes a woman beautiful physically. In fact, most go from fab to drab which is why it's such a challenge for sisters to don the hijab.

 

 

I don't think that this approach demonises sexuality at all, our religion teaches us to look after our bodies and to be sexy / sensual for our spouses. At the same time not flaunt your body so that every curve and angle is seen by the whole world. It calls for a balance in how women should be viewed; with respect in the streets and you can be as sensual as you want to be behind closed doors. And I think you find that to be how things are in the Muslim / Arab world.

 

Lastly, at the risk of getting shot down by the liberals of this forum, I find the concepts that the modelling industry is generally built upon to be generally degrading to women. It's glorified prostitution that pushes unhealthy and perverse views of female sexuality. That is ugly!

 

 

p.s It’s good to see you girl.

[cynical lady]

Blessed sweety let me draw your attention to what sue said “So why is it that more than often the Somali community tends to call models like Hawa Ahmed, Iman and Waris ugly because they flaunt their skin? Nor is the debate about “I thought the debate was more about her being so skinny and lacking femininity due to her boyish looks? Am fundamental believer in freedom of speech so do rock on but please do read the question before you jump eeh!

 

As for this “your well aware of the size zero debate and the feminist argument that the industry is trying to make women more like men.” Walahi you’re cracking me up

 

 

Do tell what does the hijabi woman represent? Am in intrigued by the by just because one wears hijab does not mean you cant see her skinny jeans or behind for the matter so do clarify what your referring to when you say there physical features can be seen? Furthermore stop universalising the hijabi claim, yes you choose to look sexy or sensual for your man and cover up but so would another exercise her own freedom of choice to do otherwise and choose to parade what her mama gave her, that’s her choice but who are you to say due to her choice she is ugly or unattractive? And how a woman should be viewed ultimately rest on the individual woman my dear so don’t go on imposing your prejudice on what you regard beautiful just because the other does not share your view or modesty which in itself is tainted I believe

 

Also please you and I both know there some fake hijabis out there that don’t like wearing hijabs especially in Arab/Somali communities for reasons that vary from forced to, I wont get a husband, to that’s the norm… so don’t paint a glory picture for me about sensuality, where was sensuality when the full jalbabi girl opted to strip dance Somali chart rooms please girl

 

 

“The concepts that the modelling industry is generally built upon to be generally degrading to women. It's glorified prostitution that pushes unhealthy and perverse views of female sexuality. That is ugly!”

 

The statement does not deserve a reply but laughter at the author of it so I shall laugh because it’s truly funny to me anyway, because at the opening line you called me ignorant and now I can’t help but laugh ahh the irony

[Curly]

Hang on people this is getting alittle out of hand and off the topic. blessed you're right, islam teaches us to be attractive to our husbands behind closed doors and not in public and doesn't deamonise sexuality but that wasn't what i said. I was referring to the way our culture and community misinterepret our religion.

 

The average Somali parent would teach their child sex and love is disgusting and covering up your body is beautiful in a physical sense. I did say that modesty is beautiful in a different way.

 

SO again I will reintroduce the topic, Which isn't about the boyish look of models or Hawa Ahmed hence the separate topic.

 

Why is our community painting women's bodies as ugly?

[NGONGE]

^^ Get out the way, woman.

 

Somali songs and poetry sure don't paint women's bodies as ugly. They explicitly describe every nook and cranny and how beautiful they are.

 

 

cambaruudka naasaha

caaradaa madow iyo

luquntaa cabaadhka le

iyo cududaheediyo

kubabkaa ......

 

 

Cynical,

 

You're talking about a different kind of Hijab wearing woman to the one people on this thread mean. They are talking about the ideal Hijabi whilst you're talking about tight jeans, figure hugging top and tongue stud wearing hijaabi!

 

As for the subject matter, I think people are unfairly merging two topics into one! Beauty (modelling) on the one hand and Hijab on the other!

 

Now, if beauty is measured by the criteria applied to modelling, then even hijaabi's can be classed as and are beautiful. Do you have a great bone structure? Great eyes? Lovely nose? High cheekbones? Do you look good in a jilbaab? Are you of an acceptable height? If the answer to all these questions is YES then, rejoice my dear, you are as pretty as a model (hijab or no hijab). You fit the criteria and in the eyes of fashion connoisseurs you are indeed pretty.

 

Of course, for the average Faarax, beauty need not be measured along these lines. Some think round girls are pretty (with or without their hijab) and some think short girls are pretty (with or without their hijab). It is a matter of taste after all and it is, sadly some would say, in the eye of the beholder.

 

When people refer to the Hijab as being beautiful they are probably using the word beauty in its original meaning. That which gives pleasure to the senses! Music is beautiful, roses are beautiful, ugly and wrinkled newborn babies are beautiful! The Hijab too is beautiful. All are considered beautiful for different reasons. In the case of the Hijab, it could be because of the associated images one gets when seeing a girl wearing a Hijab; she's honourable, virtuous and pure (or at least she should be). Therefore, she's beautiful!

 

However, if like me, you grew up in a place where the Hijab was the norm and you were conditioned to see beyond all this purity mumbo jumbo, then the idea of the Hijab would remain beautiful to you (but only in a faraway intangible sense). The idea of a WOMAN wearing the hijab will make no much difference to you, you will still hope for a gust of wind to blow so that you can get a glimpse of the goodies hidden under that Hijab (and here I am talking of the Hijab in its fullest sense and not merely the head cover). Or you would still loiter around waiting for the Hijab wearing woman to get into a car so that you catch a glimpse of her smooth lower legs as she embarks. The beauty of a Hijabi takes on a totally different meaning then.

 

From an animalistic, failing to lower the gaze, red-blooded male's point of view there is no such thing as an ugly woman. You are all a bloody temptation, damn you.

[Blessed]

^ .

 

Cynic.

I'm an angry feminist, hence the rant. What's your excuse?

 

Sue,

It's not about covering up, if you go to a Somali wedding today, you'll find more girls in khafiif dirac than you would a hijaabi. The hijaab is a fairly new phenomena for the Somalis.

 

The critique of these women is about their body type...Iman always says that she considers herself ugly in the Somali context because tall and skinny is suuko, not qalanjo.

 

I personally find Somalis (generally) to be very shallow about beauty. From our songs (some of them actually make me blush), riwayads, our art, the way girls are 'pimped' (not literally, ey) at weddings to the obsession with how they look and the lectures about spending three hours making yourself look sexy for hubby...

[Cara.]

^People being shallow about superficial beauty? Say it ain't so!

 

Ngonge, now that's what I call reverse psychology!

[Aaliyyah]

Sue, most Somalis probably call the models ugly, because they want to discourage women from ever pursuing such career, maybe it is more to do with culture and the family reputation than religion. There could also be another reason; most contemporary models are skinny and tall. As Somalis and Africans to be “sexy” you have to plump. To be fat is the ultimate beauty in most African countries. Like, when I meet some of my aunts they would be like " naa maxa kugu dhacay so adigan dhuubtey, naa bal kaalay wax cun".So, you see dear the word beauty doesn’t have static definition; everyone has their own idea of what constitutes beauty.

 

 

At a young age I was told the hijab makes you beautiful, but the objective of the hijab is completely the opposite.

The objective of Hijab isn’t to make you UGLY, merely to conceal your beauty from those who would simply approach you for the sole purpose of your beauty. As Allah swt said in the Koran:

 

“O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the

believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad).

That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed.

Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.”

 

that is my two cent.

[ElPunto]

Why is our community painting women's bodies as ugly?

I'm not sure that they are. The general cultural norm is not to share a woman's body with all and sundry. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

[sheherazade]

It's the women who go on and on about flesh on view being ugly and yet can't seem to avert their eyes or stifle their tongue. Green-eyed lesbians, the lot of them! LoL.