Racial Type of Somalia

[king_450]

What a difference style in commenting this thread by the original grp who in my mind dealt this thread very well and know what they were talking about, but some of the respondent in this site are making noises out of nothing. If you disagree then say so and move on .

Centurion yes i saw your piece and it is very interesting.

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Centurion:

Dave, old horse, your thorough, i give you that!

 

OK, let me begin

 

Regarding the samples,and the significance of 15 Eurasian genes, it seems i was wrong, having backtracked to the article from which it was derived, i know understand it to mean that 15% of samples had significant Eurasian lineages.

 

 

I've decided to accept your plea, and actually

read

your posts, lol.

And you said this

quote:

---

no i reject it i'm not a mixed product i'm a Cushtite and my facial features are indiginious

Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't Cushites a product of Caucasian and Negroid intermixing?

this is the classic mistake many people make

 

they have this mindset that the eurocentric coined ''true negro'' + Caucasian = Somalis or Ethiopians

 

this is wrong cause Somalis and Ethiopians don't carry West African lineages or speak Bantu languages

 

so if there were no so-called True negro's you have an empty seat, my point was East Africans carry Predominantly East African male genes so it would be foolish to say that they are a mix when the beforementioned groups don't even have Paternal or Maternal lineages predominating the so-called mixing groups

 

Somali people are not hybrids simple as that!

 

So we are hardly

indigenous Africans.

 

We are of course,

indigineous Cushites.

that was an Oxymoron do European or Asian cushites exist anywhere on this planet where they have been inhabiting that part of the globe for millenia's??

 

The whole northern broad extension of the African continent, reaching from Cape Verde in Senegambia to Cape Guardafui in Somalia,has been a contact area between the Caucasians and Negroid races.

the Bantu Expansion never reached Somalia by your logic the Han Chinese because of the Silk road should be one big mixing pot and a hybrid race

 

wich is not true same goes for Somali people

 

It is irrefutable that Somalis/Cushitics located in relative close proximity to the sea/ocean were exposed to and influenced by Eurasian genes.

see above..

 

Somalis have always lived closer to the Sea than Oromos/Amxaaro, so has that perhaps lead to a more influenced genome? And if so, does that make the Somali phenotype distinguishably different?

 

I believe so, and so am sure does almost everybody else. Like i said an average Somali can be picked out from amongst Oromos and Tigrays.

would a Non Somali be able to differeniate between these groups? no! and that's the only thing that matters

 

you still after all the info i provided try to attribute our indiginous phenotype to Europeans and arabs that shows you have an agenda and it doesn't matter how much info i give you will reject it

 

We agree on

-the fact that Amxaaro and oromos(more so) by far a Somalis closest cousin

correct including the Beja's of Egypt and Sudan and the Afars of Djibouti

 

-The Somali Genome has been influenced significantly by the eurasian genome.

not significant enough to change the Somali populations phenotype

 

Oh, and Somalia isnt part of Sub-Saharan Africa.

 

So what exactely is je probleem?

Sub Saharan Africa

 

:cool:

[Centurion]

this is the classic mistake many people make

 

they have this mindset that the eurocentric coined ''true negro'' + Caucasian = Somalis or Ethiopians

 

this is wrong cause Somalis and Ethiopians don't carry West African lineages or speak Bantu languages

Classic mistake?

I think thats THE theory antropologists agree on, unless you are aware of Cushitic > Bantu studies, which prove that Bantu's are descendents of a forefather of current Cushites?

 

 

my point was East Africans carry Predominantly East African male genes so it would be foolish to say that they are a mix when the beforementioned groups don't even have Paternal or Maternal lineages predominating the so-called mixing groups

Meh, i believe i've said before that of course Somalis are predominantly Cushitic, i included to that, that there's a significant Eurasian influence, Somalis are NOT 100% Cushitic.

 

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-The Somali Genome has been influenced significantly by the eurasian genome.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

not significant enough to change the Somali populations phenotype

Of course not, since we are predominantly Cushitic our phenotype will be predominantly that of Cushitic people, but one can still tell Somalis apart from other Cushites. Meaning that our phenotype although Cushitic, is slightly different to that of our neighbours, hence allowing us to distinguish a Somali from an Amxaaro/Tigray/Oromo(perhaps less so with Oromo)

 

Oh yes and on my assertion that Somalis are generally taller than amxaaro, google it, and you'll find many like statements and observation, i am yet to find any scientific evidence though.

 

 

the Bantu Expansion never reached Somalia by your logic

Explain to me how you managed to deduce this from my sentence. Did i not say that Somalia is one of the places where Bantu and Eurasians mixed?

 

And while your doing that, elaborate on the Chinese part of that badly written sentence..

 

would a Non Somali be able to differeniate between these groups? no! and that's the only thing that matters

Prove it, i believe Non-Somalis can.

 

 

Lol, i googled furiously after i saw that map of yours, and alas my knowledge of Africa will never quite be the same

[Taliban]

Originally posted by David_Letterman:

this is the classic mistake many people make

 

they have this mindset that the eurocentric coined ''true negro'' + Caucasian = Somalis or Ethiopians

Are the ''true negro'' the true Africans?

[Chimera]

brother this is my last reply to you cause you argue for the sake of arguing and i aint got time for that, i'm not here to win neither do i see this discussion as a contest but more like a waste of time

 

Originally posted by Centurion:

Classic mistake?

I think thats THE theory antropologists agree on, unless you are aware of Cushitic > Bantu studies,

agree on? no recent peer reviewed Antropologist or Geneticist support that claim, but who was talking about antropologists or geneticists?? i was talking about the average person with no knowlegde of lineages or language distribution in Africa who might see an East african with the so-called ''caucasian facial features'' and think ''Bantu'' + Arab or European = ''East African'' and thats the classic mistake i was referring to.

 

if the Bantu expansion never reached the Horn of Africa (Somalia,Ethiopia,Eritrea,Djibouti) explain this to me, who were the people living there? and why do the Hieroglyphs from Hapsehut's tomb of Punt from the 25th century B.C (no such thing as Arabs or European back then nor did they have any influence in east africa) resemble todays East Africans?

 

Somali people do not resemble half Bantu half Arab/Portuguese mix like the people living in Zanzibar or Kilwa or Mombassa

 

the E3b1 lineage that orginated with Somali males has a higher frequency in Sudanese and Egyptian population than Somali people have Eurasian Lineages

 

this contribution which you continue to hold on to is insignificant and did not alter the Somali indiginous Enlongated Phenotype

 

which prove that Bantu's are descendents of a forefather of current Cushites?

neither of them is the father, the time the ancestors of todays Africans splitted into groups and adapted to their climate like the tropical Africans predates any of todays languages or Lineages but we do know that Fossils that were found in Kenya close to NFD from the pleistocene era resemble todays East Africans

 

Jean Hiernaux, "The People of Africa", 1974, 1975, p.140

 

The skeletons of hunter-fisher-gatherers of the Stone Age all belong to populations characterized by tall stature, generally with a long and narrow head, high and narrow face and nose, and frequently showing subnasal prognathism - features which are all displayed by the living Elongated Africans. Such skeletons include those associated with Gamble's Cave, Naivasha and Olduvai, who may date to about 4,000 B.C.; the makers of the ensuing Mesolithic Elmenteita culture of Bromhead's Site; the remains associated with neolithic stone bowl culture at Hyrax Hill and Njoro River Cave(dated by carbon 14 to 960 B.C.), and with more recent stone bowl culture at Willey's Kopje, Makalia and Nakuru, which almost certainly date from the Iron Age."

 

 

Meh, i believe i've said before that of course Somalis are predominantly Cushitic, i included to that, that there's a significant Eurasian influence, Somalis are NOT 100% Cushitic.

nobody is 100% anything

 

 

 

you wrote

-The Somali Genome has been influenced significantly by the eurasian genome.

i wrote

not significant enough to change the Somali populations phenotype

you wrote

Of course not

, since we are predominantly Cushitic our phenotype will be predominantly that of Cushitic people,

finally

 

Poww

 

 

but one can still tell Somalis apart from other Cushites.

again i'm not so sure about that claim

 

 

Explain to me how you managed to deduce this from my sentence. Did i not say that Somalia is one of the places where Bantu and Eurasians mixed?

from your post

 

Did i not say that Somalia is one of the places where Bantu and Eurasians mixed

 

what i deduce from this post and the one before is..

 

1 the Bantu's are the natural heirs of Somalia or the Horn of Africa (where are the Horn Africans during this so-called mix between these two groups who's genes don't even predominate Somali/Ethiopian genes? on the contrary it's insignificant!)

 

2 The bantu + Eurasian mix = Somali people

 

i've refuted this ad nauseam

 

a Pleistocene era Fossils of the Somali and Ethiopian Ancestors with the same Enlongated Phenotype were found in East Africa(kenya)

 

b Bantu expansion never reached the Horn of Africa making Horn of Africans the true heirs of their own native countries

 

c East Africans carry East African male and Female genes therefore Bantu + this or that = a non sequitur

 

And while your doing that, elaborate on the Chinese part of that badly written sentence..

by your logic the looks of todays Han chinese should be the result of an ancient melting pot (silk road [[Persians,Indians,Romans]]) wich is not the case despite them having a vast Trading Empire and coming in contact with multiple groups

 

Prove it, i believe Non-Somalis can.

A chinese will claim he can differentiate his compatriot from a Japanese

 

would i be able to differentiate between them even if they started talking in their native tongues? i don't think so..

 

Lol, i googled furiously after i saw that map of yours, and alas my knowledge of Africa will never quite be the same

told ya :cool: take care brother

[Centurion]

this is my last reply to you cause you argue for the sake of arguing and i aint got time for that

Although this endless exchange is also frustrating, i never argue for the sake of argument, nor do i like the sound of my own voice overmuch.

 

If i didnt think my points valid, i'd never have let this get so far.

 

Dave, tell me, has Cushites>Bantu's and Caucasoids been scientifically proven?

 

And if Cushitis>Eurasians, why do Eurasians not have a significant Cushitic influence?

 

If the Bantu expansion never reached the Horn of Africa..

Again, how am i saying that?

I'm actually saying that Bantu's must've reached (and sure have) Somalia.

 

 

nobody is 100% anything

And you said Somalis are indigneous :rolleyes:

That was exactely my initial point, Somalis aren't 100% Cushitic, there's a Eurasian influence.

 

 

Anyway, since it seems you are the better Anthropologist, perhaps you can sum up your position on this in your next post.

[NASSIR]

Originally posted by David_Letterman:

[QB]i'm not saying that is the cause of 15% eurasian genes,

Arabs or other muslim groups Somalis intermixed with are not known for their tallness

 

but height is certainly something Somalis are better known for than our neighbours.

speculations aside..from Hiernaux

 

Tutsi of Rwanda:

• Stature: 176 cm
• Head length: 198 mm
• Head breadth: 147 mm
• Face height: 125 mm
• Face breadth: 134 mm
• Nose height: 56 mm
• Nose breadth: 39 mm
• Relative trunk length: 49.7
• Cephalic Index: 74.5
• Facial Index: 92.8
• Nasal Index: 69.5

Masai:

• Stature: 173 cm
• Head length: 194 mm
• Head Breadth: 140 mm
• Face Height: 121 mm
• Face Breadth: 137 mm
• Nose Height: 54 mm
• Nose Breadth: 39 mm
• Relative Trunk length: 47.7
• Cephalic Index: 72.8
• Facial Index: 89.0
• Nasal Index: 72.0

Oromo:

• Stature: 171 cm
• Head length: 190 mm
• Head Breadth: 147 mm
• Face Height: 122 mm
• Face Breadth: 133 mm
• Nose Height: 53 mm
• Nose Breadth: 37 mm
• Relative Trunk length: 50.3
• Cephalic Index: 77.6
• Facial Index: 91.5
• Nasal Index: 69.0

Somali:

• Stature: 168 cm
• Head length: 192 mm
• Head Breadth: 143 mm
• Face Height: 123 mm
• Face Breadth: 131 mm
• Nose Height: 52 mm
• Nose Breadth: 34 mm
• Relative Trunk length: 50.7
• Cephalic Index: 74.5
• Facial Index: 94.1
• Nasal Index: 66.0

 

 

Jean Hiernaux

 

The People of Africa

 

pg 142

 

I encountered THE PEOPLE OF AFRICA, by Jean Hiernaux. P. 144-145.

 

You omitted the Sab Somali, among the several samples of his experiment.

 

 

• Tutsi
• Masai
• Gala (Oromo)
• Sab (Somali)
• Warsangeli (Somali)

 

"Physically, the Galla resemble the Tutsi in face and nose shape but they are shorter in stature and head length. Their skin is dark , brown , and black. Their hair form falls most often in the curly to kinky class; a few individuals shows the ppercorn type, but nearly 9 percent of them have hair with long, broad waves, which speaks for a moderate Arab influence in their gene pool.

 

"The Two samples of Somali on which detailed anthropomentric date are available show significant differences. The small sample of southern Somali soldiers , most of Sab descent (Digil iyo Mirifle) measured by Pucconi resemble the Tutsi rather closely.

The Larger sample of Northern Somali belonging to various groups , the best represented by being the Warsingali have a relatively narrower face and nose, apprently they are strongly Arabicized."......."As a whole, however, the northern Somali do not tend to have an especially important Arab component in their gene pool. " [THE PEOPLE OF AFRICA, by Jean Hiernaux. P. 144-145.]

 

-------------------------------------

 

In this case, there is a big difference between the Somali and the Sab.

[Gabbal]

To summarize, Centurian is advocating Somalis are merely a mix between bantus and non-Africans, whereas David is arguing Somalis are not merely a simple mix but are part of a complex ancient population that might have even fathered the rest of the non-African populations.

 

Intermediate position

 

In general, populations cluster by geographic origin. The most distinct separation is between African and non-African populations.

The northeastern-African -- that is, the Ethiopian and Somali -- populations are located centrally between sub-Saharan African and non-African populations."

These studies suggest a recent and primary subdivision between African and non-African populations, high levels of divergence among African populations, and a recent shared common ancestry of non-African populations, from a population originating in Africa. The intermediate position, between African and non-African populations, that the Ethiopians and Somalis occupy in the PCA plot also has been observed in other genetic studies (Ritte et al. 1993; Passarino et al. 1998) and could be due either to shared common ancestry or to recent gene flow.

The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis

makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations

support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies (Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe. These conclusions are supported by recent mtDNA analysis (Quintana-Murci et al. 1999).

 

Very interesting quote that caught my eye. I guess David is on the ball?

 

But David also said:

 

Originally posted by David_Letterman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Centurion:

Dave,

 

 

East Africans are more related to Eurasians than to other African populations.

1, 2, 3 Investigations of Y chromosome markers have shown that the East African populations were not significantly affected by the east bound Bantu expansion that took place approximately 3500 years ago,

that's nonsense E3a is what West Africans carry E3b is what East Africans carry, both of them connect through the PN2-clade

 

how are lineages like K2 or Rb1 closer to East Africans than E3a a direct descendant of E3?

 

According to this information, as E3b is carried by by East Africans and Eurasians although it has origins in East Africa.

 

How can you David argue that Somalis are not a mix but part of an ancient race who might also have fathered Eurasians and at the same instance argue Somalis are more related to sub-Saharan African populations then Eurasians at the expense of your own position that Somalis branched from sub-Saharan African populations early on in the game and fathered Eurasians according to the research you brought. That is one contradiction that garnered my attention.

 

More information I did on the E3b.

[Centurion]

To summarize, Centurian is advocating Somalis are merely a mix between bantus and non-Africans

Not neccesarily Bantu, rather Cushitic with a slight infiltration of Eurasian genes.

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Centurion:

 

Dave, tell me, has Cushites>Bantu's and Caucasoids been scientifically proven?

with cushites>Bantu you mean Cushite fathered Bantu right? if you do, all i can say i never said that, cause 1 when the groups splitted 24kya or 100kya ago to different regions in Africa and abroad you allready had the proto-Elongated groups and those with broad features inhabiting East Africa (cause that's the place all humans originate from, according to experts and therefore it shouldn't come as a suprise that there is even till today a diverse stock of indiginous Africans living there) but putting a bantu tag on them or a cushite tag on them is incorrect since Bantu's like the Tutsi's also originate from the proto-elongated groups and those groups were black

 

E3b the lineage originating with the Proto-Somali/Ethiopian groups and E3a originating with Proto-bantu groups connects back to E3(East African in origin hence a Tutsi and a Somali are related through the PN2-clade)

 

And if Cushitis>Eurasians, why do Eurasians not have a significant Cushitic influence?

 

The E3b haplogroup is common in Mediterranean countries such as Italy and Greece, and is also found at lower frequencies in northern and central Europe. The ancestors of the E3b haplogroup probably lived in the horn of Africa (present-day Somalia) during the last Ice Age and moved into Europe via the Middle East during the Neolithic migration around 9,000 years ago. Some believe that Roman settlers brought the E3b haplogroup to northern Europe, although it may have arrived far earlier, with Neolithic farmers, or later, with Medieval traders or other immigrants from the Mediterranean region. The frequency of E3b in England is between 0%-6% depending on the location. By contrast, E3b is present in about 25% of Silicians and Greeks, and 50%-80% of North Africans.

 

either the Romans had East African male slaves( historically incorrect) who then became concubines of Roman and Greek women or this genetic male influence goes back long before the Roman Empire and all other Empires (9-16 kya)

 

Again, how am i saying that?

I'm actually saying that Bantu's must've reached (and sure have) Somalia.

We have observed only a few individuals with the E3a haplogroup in our Somali population, thus, supporting the view that the Bantu migration did not reach Somalia -Newman JL. The Peopling of Africa: A Geographic Interpretation New Haven, USA: Yale University Press 1995

 

 

And you said Somalis are indigneous :rolleyes:

That was exactely my initial point, Somalis aren't 100% Cushitic, there's a Eurasian influence.

that was not your point don't play me for a fool brother you said because of this insignificant influence our phenotype changed and that was the only reason why i kept coming back

 

Anyway, since it seems you are the better Anthropologist, perhaps you can sum up your position on this in your next post.

I'm not a Antropologist but i do like reading this stuff, Somali/Ethiopians are a big threat to Europeans in terms of looks and the fact that in the past they would classify Ancient Egyptians with Elongated features as non African wich is not the truth

[Centurion]

And you said Somalis are indigneous

That was exactely my initial point, Somalis aren't 100% Cushitic, there's a Eurasian influence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

that was not your point don't play me for a fool brother you said because of this insignificant influence our phenotype changed and that was the only reason why i kept coming back

i said

 

The purpose wasn't to deny the undeniable African heritage, but to discuss the other influences in the somali genome which make us just that bit different to the average bantu African.

If you're a scientist you should understand that the phenotype is what appears visually, our genome however is different to that of the Ethiopians, who have a greater percentage of Cushitic genes than the 80% in Somalis.

 

The Somali genotype is not indigenous, because our genome contains 15% eurasian genes.

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Caamir:

 

I encountered THE PEOPLE OF AFRICA, by Jean Hiernaux. P. 144-145.

 

You omitted the Sab Somali, among the several samples of his experiment.

 

In this case, there is a big difference between the Somali and the Sab.

Hiernaux in 1970's did not have the same genetical information todays geneticists and antropologists have so his measurements on these different populations are relevant but his opinion in terms of genetics is irrelevant and outdated

 

the fact that i ommitted Sab was because Centurion was adressing physical measurements of the Somali from the so-called noble clans compared to their neighbours

 

If you read the recent Genetical information you will understand it's a fallacy to call Somalis arabized since 1 we speak our own native tongue 2 we carry our own native genes

[Chimera]

Originally posted by N/AA:

To summarize

, Centurian is advocating Somalis are merely a mix between bantus and non-Africans, whereas David is arguing Somalis are not merely a simple mix

but are part of a complex ancient population that might have even fathered the rest of the non-African populations.

correct as this is being supported by multiple Geneticists like Sanchez and Tiskhoff

 

Intermediate position

 

In general, populations cluster by geographic origin. The most distinct separation is between African and non-African populations.

The northeastern-African -- that is, the Ethiopian and Somali -- populations are located centrally between sub-Saharan African and non-African populations."

These studies suggest a recent and primary subdivision between African and non-African populations, high levels of divergence among African populations, and a recent shared common ancestry of non-African populations, from a population originating in Africa. The intermediate position, between African and non-African populations, that the Ethiopians and Somalis occupy in the PCA plot also has been observed in other genetic studies (Ritte et al. 1993; Passarino et al. 1998) and could be due either to shared common ancestry or to recent gene flow.

The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis

makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations

support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies (Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe. These conclusions are supported by recent mtDNA analysis (Quintana-Murci et al. 1999).

 

Originally posted by N/AA:

Very interesting quote that caught my eye. I guess David is on the ball?

 

But David also said:

Originally posted by David_Letterman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Centurion:

Dave,

 

 

East Africans are more related to Eurasians than to other African populations.

1, 2, 3 Investigations of Y chromosome markers have shown that the East African populations were not significantly affected by the east bound Bantu expansion that took place approximately 3500 years ago,

that's nonsense E3a is what West Africans carry E3b is what East Africans carry, both of them connect through the PN2-clade

 

how are lineages like K2 or Rb1 closer to East Africans than E3a a direct descendant of E3?

According to this information, as E3b is carried by by East Africans and Eurasians although it has origins in East Africa.

correct

 

Originally posted by N/AA:

How can you David argue that Somalis are not a mix but part of an ancient race who might also have fathered Eurasians and at the same instance argue Somalis are more related to sub-Saharan African populations then Eurasians at the expense of your own position that Somalis branched from sub-Saharan African populations early on in the game and fathered Eurasians according to the research you brought. That is one contradiction that garnered my attention.

the Elongated ancient east African groups fathered todays Elongated Eurasians the Somali/Ethiopians are the direct descendants of the group that stayed in East Africa while there brothers and sister went on a trip

 

they lost there melanin pigmentation when they adapted to the climate in Europe

 

Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

 

By Rick Weiss

Washington Post Staff Writer

Friday, December 16, 2005; Page A01

 

Scientists said yesterday that they have discovered a tiny genetic mutation that largely explains the first appearance of white skin in humans tens of thousands of years ago, a finding that helps solve one of biology's most enduring mysteries and illuminates one of humanity's greatest sources of strife.

 

The work suggests that the skin-whitening mutation occurred by chance in a single individual after the first human exodus from Africa, when all people were brown-skinned. That person's offspring apparently thrived as humans moved northward into what is now Europe, helping to give rise to the lightest of the world's races.

 

Source

 

the ancient african ancestors of those with Broad facial features fathered todays Broad facial featured Eurasians (Adaman Islanders etc etc)

 

Melenasians

 

Aborigenes

 

 

they came from the Same Ancestors as todays Broad facial featured Africans in Africa and both of those Ancient African groups(Elongated and Broad) carried L3

 

L3 is the African group that gave rise to the two non-African groups, M and N, which are two of the three major Eurasian founder groups. N gave rise to the third. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050509/outofafrica.html

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Centurion:

 

The purpose wasn't to deny the undeniable African heritage, but to discuss the other influences in the somali genome which make us just that bit different to the average bantu African.

Bantu African

 

you said i said we said he said she said haaaaaa sxb your correct we mullatoe's

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Taliban:

quote:Originally posted by David_Letterman:

this is the classic mistake many people make

 

they have this mindset that the eurocentric coined ''true negro'' + Caucasian = Somalis or Ethiopians

Are the ''true negro'' the true Africans?

Eurocentrics like Coon claimed that africans with broad facial features were the True negro's or true africans and Somali/Ethiopians and Egyptians were called super Negriods because of their phenotype which they tried to paint off as being a foreign contribution but they and many other have been debunked and refuted because of recent genetic data and fossil findings that contradict all these claims