Is this GUY crazy, hrazy, or neither

[Pi]

Amelia, I think both xiinfaniin and Xoogsade have raised germane points in different ways. Now, let's see a point for point rebuttle. Otherwise, roll over in agreement. It's hard to resist the temptation of one-liner dismissals, I know.

[Xoogsade]

Amelia(intentionally mentioning your name), you asked me a question and I replied to that with an explanation. I pointed out to you why I was frustrated with the likes of Socod-Badne and every word I said subsequently relates

 

If people are concerned about certain issues, and they want to correct/rectify that, there is a way to do it. No one is entitled to insult our intellect when they are probably at the bottom.

 

 

Pi, thanks bro. lol at roll over in agreement, couldn't have said it better. Thanks again. Normally women harrass guys they like. Amelia is no exception.

[-Serenity-]

^ What vanity! Lord help us poor women in love! :rolleyes:

 

Pi, I try and choose my debates. This one is in the bag.. has been from the start. Nothing to rebutt in Xiin's superficial worries and Xoogsade's personal rants.

[Pi]

Originally posted by J B:

Ahura, i coulden´t agree more , it´s just that it´ll cost and the price tag is not shy one,

The naturally presuassive scientific health arguments are robust , even the theological ones, but then the msg is best carried by or deleivered through the same instrument that helped it get there in the first place,

Price = run over the meek Mullah and use diffrent but highly resistant instrument or pay the price by way of delayed gratification.

I wanna know how many scholars in Somalia give Fatwas saying that this practice is Haram? Are there even any?

[Pi]

DP

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

However, I found

SB's

indictment of somalis(in the last part of his comments) to be contemptuous.

 

Such as? You don't say! It would be helpfull if you spell out what I said that you found contemptible. Otherwise everything you write above is dismissed as pure malarky.

 

 

Do you believe we suffer from pervasive ineptness as a community?

 

Yes and I'm being very generous.

 

 

And it doesn't help the fact that It has become the norm for every spiritually lacking somali to opportunistically place themselves in the light seeking attention at the expense of the somali communities.

 

 

And you reached the conclusion some are lacking spirituality from... what exactly :confused:

 

 

... but individuals advocating for that change have to show they first care and have put much thought into their method of communication, who they are targetting with their message and avoid any negative outfalls that can actually hurt their own communities.

Wrong! The only responsibility they have is to the tell truth.

[xiinfaniin]

Pi, that is good question and one that’s worthy of discussion. Islam as you may know does not sanction this practice. It’s the influence of the good wadaado’s that this culture is beginning to diminish, at least in the urban centers. They understand that this practice is un-Islamic and breach against it. You see before Islamic awakening movements come this was impenetrable issue that few dared to speak against it. Now not only do they speak against it but this time they do so while armed with a religious justification that demolishes its premise, and so it lost the legitimacy it enjoyed before to a degree. There is along way to go, but the journey of eradicating this bad culture has nevertheless started. The solution has to come from within if this problem is to be confronted seriously. I see no point in explicit pictures that show parts that are not meant for the public eye. Books are fine with me but they got to have some useful contents to be effective.

 

So Wadaado deserve more credit than we are prepared to give. Lets hope those efforts succeed.

 

Some people, JB included, may allege FGM is Islam’s fault. But you know that is a sheer ignorance. It’s like blaming American constitution for body mutilation (read: piercing), which is a very pervasive culture in the west.

 

P.S: @Xoogsade's principle. Ma'anaan garan. It now makes sense.

[-Lily-]

For goodnes sake if yo don't like it don't look at it. It's no more horrific to look at that FGM pic than it is to look at those on the internet. If we are questioning his intention then we'll be none the smarter until we actully ask Name Witheld.

 

If all of you are as bummed out about FGM there is pleanty you can do, and that's probably where you will make your excuses.

[Nefertiti]

Hey Kafaaxiye, I see you have kept the avatar then. I just glanced over the topic you posted in GENERAL and it did cause a lot of people to sweat unnecessarily which is a shame really because the pic is actually quite pleasing to the eye. Lets face it there aren't many Faraaxs who have such a stunning smile...it is usually two green coloured teeth from all the chewing and a breath like chicken fart..

 

And finally, it sounded to me as if a lot of girls send you PM after seeing this infamous pic, and then where terribly disappointed after the truth, hence the hostility. In order to compensate for all the heartbreak caused 'Would the REAL Kafaaxiye please stand up'

?????

[Guhaad]

^waryaa (mise gabar baad tahay) hoos u hadal, waxaad ku jirtaa meel aan loogu talagalin arintaan, hadii aad rabtid in aan arintaas ka xaajoono waxaad na geysaa meesha aan ugu talagalay, but thanks for the vote. shiish, i haven't kept it, i am still planning

[sheherazade]

No mention of what exactly the negative perception on Somali women as a result of the pictures would be or why FGM shouldn't appear on a book on Somalis.

 

Look what a man can come up with when driven to it by me.

 

All along you have been claiming a negative perception on Somali women. All along. And finally when pushed to define this perception u say:

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

But that’s not where my objection emanated. My objection is about the explicit drawing of the thing. I some how feel that the thing assumes a Somali identity, and hence it is not just a female thing, as the book is about Somalia and Somalis.

THE THING! THE THING! THE THING!

 

How can I get across my reaction! I’m so flabbergasted and yet this is precisely what I was expecting. You are ashamed about the mutilated genital making everybody- the men included- look bad!!! It makes all Somalis look like the THING.

 

Mercy me, u claim consideration for the women and u yrself can't abide 'the thing' reflecting on you and your identity when it sure as hell has theirs!!!!

 

Somali brotherhood my ar*se, philanthropy be damned.

 

And then u say:

 

Now when one, say a Minnesotan, see what looks like a wounds from a savage beast, would he/she not take away a perception that all Somali Xalimos carry these scars? Now ask me if that’s not a bad perception. I think it is unfair generalization of Somali sisters. Not all of them went through that ordeal.

 

Absoultely if there is a generalisation, that is one that can be made quite, quite safely. And what’s unfair about it? It is not an accusation, it’s a statistical probability. Once again, the women as children were not to blame for what they endured!! So why is it unfair if a foreigner assumes that most Somali women have gone under the rusty blade? It is an assumption that is most likely true. Not all of them have gone under the knife but most have. You and the rest are so ashamed that it reflects badly on you that u’d rather have it hushed.

 

 

And then u say:

I would go even further and assert that great portion of our new generation sisters are save from these wounds. When an unqualified author puts his pen on a paper and commences to parade our secret wounds and display it in the public square, what wisdom do you see in it to fight me teeth and nail when I object? If this book is widely published, I can even begin to imagine what an embarrassment it would be to our high school girls, a generation whose majority, mind you, has safely escaped from that rusty razor.

 

Are they safe by their parents’ choice or has circumstance made it difficult to continue this tradition? Has the Somali community abroad really re-educated itself about this practice? And why the mention of the new generation in the West alone; their mothers, their grandmothers, their great-grandmothers are alive and there are far more of them than the new generation. Should we drop the mention of FGM in Somali-related books because it’s not so prevalent in Somali high school-ers in the West?

 

Finally, once again you have given this book the ambition of tackling FGM when it probably wasn’t the author’s aim. Very little point in discussing that part of your post, is there?

 

Bottom line, u are embarrassed, your embarrassment is far more acute to u than the pain and embarrassment experienced by Somali women- who get asked these questions whatever generation they’re from and whom u claim to want to shield from awkward moments, so this is what drives tour objection. Women will get quizzed regardless, how will you keep this information away from the classrooms? Google ‘fgm Somalis’ and it will return 182,000 results. We are already known for this crime. How is keeping away from classrooms a book written by a Somali going to save the new generation from embarrassment? It won’t! There is no negative perception on Somali women- your mention of embarrassed high school girls squirming when asked is not a negative perception. These young girls are not culpable so have no reason to be seen in a negative way for something they would have no control over if it overtook them.

 

So u’re left with only one of your objections- shame- this is what bothers you, 'the thing' mis-representing us all, sullying Somaliness, creating a visual representation of what a Somali is.

 

Like I’ve said before, it is shame that will keep this practice undiscussed, the shame felt by the likes of you who use words such as 'the thing', in order to dissociate yourself from it, vilify it yourself(so why care what an outsider thinks?!) and fear its reflection on the habits of the Somalis( some already perverse enough). Your attitude is part of the problem, Recognise.

 

Thanks for elaborating. Shame, shame, shame...

[Xoogsade]

Xiin

 

Why don't you share what surprised you saxib Were you taken aback by how Amelia dismissed me as an utter rubbish? lool. It was nothing personal. Pi's quote is funny I agree. I don't know which is funnier, Xoogsade quoted or Pi's sense of humour laughing still lol. I already like young Pi. Never had anyone carry my name around the forum like that.

 

Sheherazade.

 

FGM is sort of embarrassment and a practice inherited from animist religions. That much is agreed upon. The question is, how do you achieve change in the community and where do you start? Not shaming Somali minnesotans of course right? What do I have to do with FGM? I don't want people ask me about it. I am not comfortable with that

[- Femme -]

Topic: Is this GUY crazy, hrazy, or neither

What's hrazy? qix qix qix. Ahhhhhhhhhh. Good times. :cool:

[sheherazade]

Xoogsade, really, and why is your comfort more important than exposing an issue? Or my comfort? Really, I'd like to know your answer. I sure don't want to be quizzed on it, either; it can be embarrassing but occassional embarrassment does not debilitate, FGM does. May be we need to learn how to explain this matter when asked without squirming as though we have had a personal hand in it. If u haven't, then u have nothing to be ashamed about. Why drag mother Somalia's honour into it(regardless of how u feel it reflects on it). Keep it simple for the asker: it happens, it's wrong, it's less prevalent. There's no need for shame or defence.

 

Also, this book was not about dealing with FGM; it was mentioned as part of the culture so let's rest that one.

[Valenteenah.]

X, Your discomfort is not relevant. Men like you and the previous poster may want to distance yourselves from the shame of being associated with something as barbaric as FGM, but they are as much to blame as the women who make a living out of cutting and sewing up little girls. Why you ask? Because of their silence. When an action is being carried out in your name, keeping silent makes you complicit. Your embarrassment and shame is of no importance. Your ineffectual rantings are too little, too late.

 

If this book is an introduction to the Somali Culture, I don't see why the author shouldn't include FGM. If he goes one further and draws diagrams to show the scale of damage and/or the scars women have been living with for centuries, all the better.