Is this GUY crazy, hrazy, or neither

[Johnny B]

Ahura, i coulden´t agree more , it´s just that it´ll cost and the price tag is not shy one,

The naturally presuassive scientific health arguments are robust , even the theological ones, but then the msg is best carried by or deleivered through the same instrument that helped it get there in the first place,

Price = run over the meek Mullah and use diffrent but highly resistant instrument or pay the price by way of delayed gratification.

[Jacpher]

Let's beat the Sheikhs now. Way to go bright people

 

JB, go to the masjid for once and see what's being said about the issue before you even lay a general blame on them.

 

Sheh, you're reading too much into my post. Take off the glasses. I think Xiin & scarlet said what I needed to say which is showing these images in a book [dealing with another subject matter] won't do any purpose for the suffering of Somali women or work towards putting this berberic act to an end.

[-Serenity-]

^ It wont do them any harm either!

 

Xiin,

there wasn’t a ‘little dig’ in my post

Aha? What was this?

 

I note that you are one of those few blessed Xaliimos who happen to be intact, anatomically

You actually brought me into the realm and made an assumption about me… then proceeded to marginalize that perception as the exception, when it should be the norm.

 

But you don’t need to apologize for I’m not offended or think you intended to 'damage my character', however, the comment came across as slightly tasteless (I'm sure to Sheh too).

 

how do you miss the wisdom of opposing creating new perceptions, and negative one at that, on poor Xalimos in the name of bringing attention to the FGM?

Two things.

 

1. I don’t see the wisdom, hence why I asked you to explain it.

 

2. I don’t blv this in anyway conveys a ‘negative’ perception about the women. If they blv it to be a negative practice, then it re-affirms their inner belief that this isn’t right and that most people recognize it and share it. A patient born with a deformity, would be relieved to see pictures of other sufferers and how their deformities compare. Just being told about it doesn’t help at all. If not, then they should be informed of its effects – in pictures if the need be. They would also benefit from as many people out there condemning it as possible – whether Somali, western or western-Somalis.

 

It takes a village, as the cliché goes, to fight this bad culture of ours, you would agree, and parading the wounds of the affected sisters is a poor strategy to achieve that goal, me thinks.

Parading? Refer to point (2). How do you expect to fight this bad practice if people aren’t allowed to see it fully – in bold pictures better?

 

It really doesn’t matter who the consumers or target audience for the book are. If some1 wants to write about FGM, they have every right to stick pictures in there and get their message fully across.

 

Like Sheh said, FGM is part of Somali culture and as shameful as it might be for some of you, the world knowing about it does more good than harm. Why hide it anyway? As the Somali maahmah goes ‘wixii la qariyo qudhun baa ku jira’. Besides, if I picked up a book to read about the bizarre practices of a country... I’d expect there to be full accurate information with pictures if possible.

[xiinfaniin]

^^I am glad you affirmed that it wasn't intended to offend, and frankly shouldn’t offend! Suffice to say that I am not a task maker for if I were I would have avoided it all together, so you wouldn’t find it ‘slightly tasteless.‘ The irony is though you are blowing your stack about the mere mention of ‘intact’ and still want to defend a more graphic stuff! How plausible is that, my dear?

 

Waxaadanse u xiiqin, idiin daaye iska daawada dee .

 

[edit]:-

Originally posted by sheherazade:

I wasn't adding fuel, I was agreeing with her. You

did

put the attention on her unnecessarily, you did patronise her by calling her 'fickle' , u're still patronising her by calling it an 'imagined' dig and it doesn't matter what goes beyond this cyber environment, I don't know nor care to know, I only commented on what I read here and your offer of an apology if your cyber words extend beyond this forum(even though they only occurred within this forum) is the worst sort of I-may-apologise-if-my-bizarre-conditions are met offer I have ever read.

 

Anyway, she'll expand on it or not, let's see whether she imagined your words

and

dragged their imaginary backsides beyond the cyber world. If so, I'd love to know how. I often imagine the most luxurious, fantastical of scenarios, dragging them into the real world would be a hoot. Amelia ought to givelife-changing seminars and teach that skill- I'd be first in line. What say u, girl? Can you or can't u make the unreal real?

 

Thanks for the info, K.

^^Waxaan macno lahayn baad ku nuux-nuuxsanaysaa!

 

Gabar, you must have a bone to pick with me then? Why else would you choose to dedicate two paragraphs for such an insignificant issue? I think that you have sharpened your claws for the wrong prey though, and will see if you walk on that fire un-burnt.

 

As for the author and his intentions, we could only guess, as we know not what was in his mind. But reasonable people would conclude that he wanted to address, or at least give some ideas about FGM. But there is nothing substantial to debate here as we both agree FGM is a bad thing.

 

Waa ka baxay.

[-Serenity-]

The irony is though you are blowing your stack about the mere mention of ‘intact’ and still want to defend a more graphic stuff! How plausible is that, my dear?

Very plausabile. I'm not the subject. Simple.

[Xoogsade]

Socod-Badne

 

Why don't you go jump off a bridge? That will save you from living an embittered life and in self-hate. And please, don't you dare come back and tell me you are for the refinement and purification of somali social ills when you are part of their shame. You are more deserving and epitomize most of what you listed in your post.

 

Amelia

 

Wave you are on a roll. I wonder!

[-Serenity-]

^ *Wave*

 

Laakiin why are you picking on SB? He has made perfectly legitimate and applaud-worthy points in this thread. Is there anything you specifically didn’t agree with?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Amelia:

Laakiin why are you picking on

SB

?

Amelia, walaaley iga celi ninkan waalan oo raba inuu buundada iga tuuro... I'll be back later, have paper to finish.

[sheherazade]

J, u don't say! I'm wearing glasses and losing my hearing now!

 

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Waxaan macno lahayn baad ku nuux-nuuxsanaysaa!

Faxam la'aan ayaa ragiina idin heysata. Maybe I should start seminars...

 

Gabar, you must have a bone to pick with me then? Why else would you choose to dedicate two paragraphs for such an insignificant issue? I think that you have sharpened your claws for the wrong prey though, and will see if you walk on that fire un-burnt.

 

Don't flatter yourself, waxba maa dhaantid the rest, who list beliefs, jump to conclusions, get their message across badly and indulge in the new past-time: futile threats whilst avoiding backing up their views or expounding when queried.

 

No mention of what exactly the negative perception on Somali women as a result of the pictures would be or why FGM shouldn't appear on a book on Somalis.

 

Waa ka baxay.

 

Waad ka dhex baxi kari weydey, more like!!

[Xoogsade]

Amelia, To explain why I sounded pissed, The endless negative comments about somalis has gotten to me. I can relate to a brotherly love which is complex emotion and I am willing to give everyone who loves to write much drivel about somalis the benefit of the doubt assuming they are concerned and want to bring about positive change. However, I found SB's indictment of somalis(in the last part of his comments) to be contemptuous. Do you believe we suffer from pervasive ineptness as a community?

 

And it doesn't help the fact that It has become the norm for every spiritually lacking somali to opportunistically place themselves in the light seeking attention at the expense of the somali communities. Minnesota could be like Holland, Norway and Denmark and the immigrant somali communities can easily become the target of the media because of some people who feel no affinity to somalis though they look somali and speak somali.

 

Every sensible community welcomes change, but individuals advocating for that change have to show they first care and have put much thought into their method of communication, who they are targetting with their message and avoid any negative outfalls that can actually hurt their own communities.

[-Serenity-]

^ Ma anaad is haysataa mise SB mise Ayan Hirsi mise wax kalaa ku haya? (never thought I would have my name in that sentence :eek: ).

 

I cant b bothered to sort our your messy points X. You're all over the place and I, still, dont know what you're objecting to. You write like a typical Somali ... plenty of generalizations, exaggerations, misdirected frustration and an inherent aversion to self-reflection!

 

SB, ninkan waalan is all yours.

[xiinfaniin]

Sheh, It is really very simple: I object explicit drawing of Somali female private part in the said book for the two reasons I've stated. Let me repeat them again in the hope you would get it this time around.

 

First, a book that is written for the consumption of the west is a world away in solving this problem. The problem exists in Somalia and not in USA. If the author intended to help raise some awareness about this issue, this approach is ineffective, and quite frankly useless. For one, those who live in the west are not at risk of this culture (there could always be some exceptions) and hence don’t need a book to do away with it. This practice is illegal in the west, as it should be, and no sane person would argue that Somalis in Minnesota are in dire need for stop-mutilating-your-daughter campaign. And the ones who are at risk need not read books about it. They need not stare at the graphic depiction of their injuries. They just need (not necessarily they realize that need, but nevertheless a need) some concrete act against the culture that causes it. Understand that fact.

 

But that’s not where my objection emanated. My objection is about the explicit drawing of the thing. I some how feel that the thing assumes a Somali identity, and hence it is not just a female thing, as the book is about Somalia and Somalis. Now when one, say a Minnesotan, see what looks like a wounds from a savage beast, would he/she not take away a perception that all Somali Xalimos carry these scars? Now ask me if that’s not a bad perception. I think it is unfair generalization of Somali sisters. Not all of them went through that ordeal. I would go even further and assert that great portion of our new generation sisters are save from these wounds. When an unqualified author puts his pen on a paper and commences to parade our secret wounds and display it in the public square, what wisdom do you see in it to fight me teeth and nail when I object? If this book is widely published, I can even begin to imagine what an embarrassment it would be to our high school girls, a generation whose majority, mind you, has safely escaped from that rusty razor. Perceptions can easily be created, but it takes an organized effort to fight them and change. You can naively come back to me and ask; Maxaa ku jaban haddii dadka qaarki saa u qaataan? Wax badan baa ku jaban, I say.

 

Now combine ineffectiveness with the potential unintended consequence it could create, and the net result would be incompetence. That’s not some thing I admire. Apparently you do. The difference.

 

One more thing, may good sister, focus and remember that we are not talking about whether or not FGM is bad as we agree on that. We are not talking about whom to blame as we agree that also. We are discussing if the said book has a sound approach and the inappropriateness of drawing explicit (hand drawn but still graphic) mutilated Somali female part for the consumption of a remote societies in the Midwest of a continent called America! Remember also the subtitle of my objection is called ‘Anshax’ and its deeply rooted in our faith. Lest you are tempted also remember that we are not talking about instructional drawings found in the medical books and like.

 

Bal hadda noo sheeg waxa habarta hab-hab-teeda ka danbeeya .

[Pi]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Bal hadda noo sheeg waxa

habarta

hab-hab-teeda ka danbeeya

.

I'm surely misunderstanding what this means and who it is directed to. :eek:

 

My two cents: If this book is being published in english, it can have the negative effects Xiin alluded to, like ppl startin to think all Somali females have been sliced and diced. But isnt that the whole point of creating awareness? Any reasonable Somali gal (who escaped this practice) would swallow her pride and false sense of shame, if its gonna stop this monstrous practice, no?

 

Alotta folks back home dont see this (FGM) as a problem at all. Many of us educated in the west cringe at its cruelty. So the author is just tryna shore up as much support as he can from the west. The change will ultimately IMO come from without (meaning from somalis outside of Somalia). I'm thinking that author wants to literally shame the Somalis in the west to action? He wants them to somehow influence their relatives/ppl they know etc about how messed up this is.

 

Am I blowing hot air here? Why else would such a graphic book be published in a place where the problem is non-existent. It's all about evocation methinks. And it just might work, ya never know.

[Xoogsade]

Amelia, no, you have no part in that and my post is directed towards people who fit the profile whether it is Socod-badne, Ayan Hirsi and the likes.

 

Now, do you have anything to say about the messy points I raised? I do enjoy writing like a somali. Nothing could go wrong with that. Plus touching issues related to the subject at hand is not an offense.

[-Serenity-]

Pi, good old Xiin has sixth sense and is aware of things that go 'deeper than this cyber ground'. :rolleyes:

 

Xoogsade, it seems you have a problem sticking to the topic at hand and addressing the said subject in threads. May I suggest not putting my name in the title next time you want to rant?