Two men kissing in a park and a topless woman bather

[Arawella]

The purpose of the Immigration test should, in the long term, effectively contribute to the country’s economy. To force an individual to watch or act on something, which is not in harmony with their belief or principles is in breach of their human rights.

 

If the Dutch consider themselves liberals then why be duplicitous whereby one group (homosexual) is allowed to practice their rights and another is denied that same freedom (circumcision) and often subjected to offensive treatments.

 

Liberal, I think not, more of authoritarian tactics! An individual should not be refused entry to a country due to their culture or religion, should not be debased nor made to feel abashed.

 

I find some of the SOL members’ comments aggravating, uncalled for and totally anti-Muslim. One member mentions an officer murdered by an immigrant, perhaps one should observe the circumstances of the murder. In addition, a murder committed by one immigrant in a thousand is not substantial statistics to form such prejudiced conclusions.

 

How insulting that certain members remain deluded. They sing of the goodness and freedom offered in the West while oblivion to or in denial of the abundant injustice and morally unethical behaviour towards the Muslims. I am talking about invasions based on false and manipulated data, Guantanamo bay prisoners and much more. I strongly suggest SOL members to refrain from painting Muslims as culprits and forming biased perception of us!

[makalajabti]

Originally posted by LaVie:

If the Dutch consider themselves liberals then why be duplicitous whereby one group (homosexual) is allowed to practice their rights and another is denied that same freedom (circumcision) and often subjected to offensive treatments.

How could you compare Homosexuality and Circumcision?

Homosexuality is about two consentant adults and it's none of our business to know what's going on behind closed doors.

Circumcision is genital mutilation. It's a crime, a horrible way to mess up with girls private parts, it's a way of controlling women sexuality.

[makalajabti]

Originally posted by Castro:

quote:

This is a classic and shameless fear tactic, atheer, and also the closest thing the Dutch can do legally short of standing at the gates and shooing people away. If you're unable to understand that, makalajabti, then indeed

waad

kala jabtay.

Still, The Netherlands are right to select who should be eligible to be a dutch citizen. WHy on Earth they'd let in their country extremist muslims who hate gays and are offended by a naked bather?

WOuld you let unashamed gay dutch settling in Somalia and corrupting your people?

Would you give foreign people whose morals do not correspond to those of your people gaining citizenship of your beloved muslim country?

The Answer is NO.

[Jacpher]

They are not only dictating how these poor immigrants should conduct their daily lives, but also how they should think, act, and behave in public? Not only a change of attitude & atmosphere but belief system & lifestyle? And this is about being tolerant & liberal?? The Dutch must have a different meaning of those terms. Not the universal definitions of democracy, tolerance and liberalism. This has nothing to do with integration of society. Nada. A worst kind of assimilation. In line with fascism & oppression if you ask me.

 

Can you image the reaction of EU, & the media if some Arab country sets similar measures to its western inhabitants/residents??

[BOB]

Once upon a time we were all innocent and didn't know what the word Homosexual or Lesbian meant including those among us who "Spoke" english but since we came to non-muslim countries we slowly integrated and got used to their culture and mastered the art in speaking their languages (thanks to many years of hard work) and started to celeberate their holidays and now it's not unusual to find a somali guy or a girl with a homesuxal friend because "they told you it's OK" and we took their word for it...

 

My point? only those from Islamic countries would be offended and i,honestly speaking don't believe a Somali from Kenya,Tanzania or any other African country would be "shocked" to see two men kissing because they may have already seen either in a Film or in those filthy magazines they sell in everywhere..those of you who have been to Nairobi may have seen porn magz being sold in Town with full view of the public including children...

 

 

He who says Living in a Non-Muslim country is prosperous is a LIAR..spit on his/her face unless

you want to lead a Godless life.

 

May Allah s.w Lead Us All Through The Righ Path Insha Allah...Aamiin.

 

 

Peace,Love & Unity.

[Naden]

These videos speak volumes about Europe's xenophobia and growing intolerance. They certainly had no problems trampling cultural values when they brought their armies into Africa and pillaged what they could. It's distressing but the backlash against muslims (and visible minority immigrants) is everywhere and only going to get worse. It's enough to hear the nostalgia of radio callers for the 40's/ 50's immigration when most were white and christian.

[ScarFace]

Originally posted by Jimcaale:

Can you image the reaction of EU, & the media if some Arab country sets similar measures to its western inhabitants/residents??

well you cant imagine because it would never happen most rich arab countries political system is dictated by western powers. If the western world says jump they would say how high. The arab world bows down to western world so how in the world can they set similar measures.

The dutch are doing this because no immigrant has a firm grib on their economy/political system or any other things.

 

Imagine the same bullshit happening in England it would never ever pass through because the immigrant population contributed so much to the economy/political system. you have muslim MP's but can you get the same People in Holland. the only way you get into their system is if you change your beliefs and culture. Ayan Xirsi has done that and look what she gets over a Million or so is spent on her security.... :eek: :eek:

 

plus i remember someone told me when white people used to visit somalia. The somali people disliked them sooo much they used to throw stones at them.

[Maf Kees]

Originally posted by ScarFace:

plus i remember someone told me when white people used to visit somalia. The somali people disliked them sooo much they used to throw stones at them.

That's true. Russians were an exception though. They got a little bit more respect in the streets of Mogadishu than the other honkeys. They weren't thrown rocks at but rotten fruit.

 

I remember that a Somali restaurant owner threw away the plate that an unexpected white customer ate from. Edeb daranaa!

[Arawella]

Makalajabti, your ignorance has no boundaries.

 

My objection with the Dutch lays with the way they bestow civil liberties to one group while rejecting others basic rights. Any consent or act between homosexuals should remain private and others should not be compelled to witness nor should it be used as a tool to assess a person’s level of prejudice. Since the Dutch consider themselves beacon of liberalism then they should adhere to the human rights protocols.

 

I am baffled as to why you tend to absorb one side of the facts. Circumcision is a tradition embedded in many people way of living and should not be lightly dismissed nor subject to controversies. Female circumcision might be viewed as an abhorrent act but male circumcision is collectively recognised as fundamental.

 

One does not need to be shown derelict sites nor two men kissing to be considered competent and valuable to a nation. Immigrants have contributed tremendously to the growth of the West and do not deserve to be labelled terrorist nor be made to endure degradation. They are human and the Dutch have moral obligations to respect their beliefs. As an immigrant, Makalajabti tolerance towards your fellows would be expected.

[makalajabti]

and tolerance towards Dutch people and their way of life should be expected from foreigners!!!!!!

[Baluug]

Originally posted by makalajabti:

and tolerance towards Dutch people and their way of life should be expected from foreigners!!!!!!

She's got a point.....Everyone knows full well already what Holland and their beliefs are all about. Muslims can't just barge in and expect the rest of them to change according to their beliefs. My message to all Muslims: If you value your diin and fear Allah SWT, you will stay the hell away from the Netherlands.

[ElPunto]

Sorry - too swamped to respond for the longest time.

 

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

Ok, now back that up with evidence. I'm not aware of any laws in Sweden or Holand that discriminate against immigrant. Since you claim you do, please back it up.

Come on - in the 1950s, American laws stated that Blacks could vote but in practice they were unable to. The laws on the books matter much less that the actual practice. And the actual practice in these countries(and much of continental Europe) is that even educated immigrants face innumerable obstacles and are unable to get into the middle class because of the denial of jobs and opportunities. Where are the educated and prosperous Dutch or Swedish Muslims - have you heard of them? Why is it across the Channel in Britain - there are scores of them. Hmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

No they don't. Van Goh was killed in Holland, not in America. A. Hirsi is in hiding in Holland, not American. The firebrand Imaams of Britian who preach ineffable inflammatory sermons/speechs are in Britian not America. Europe in general failed to assimilate its muslim population and now its paying the price.

And why did they fail to assimilate their Muslims while Canada/US and for the most part Britain has assimilated them? Could it be because of their fake liberalism and tolerance - where people who have been born and bred in Germany are referred to as 'guest workers'. Please. Can't you see that differences in host nation attitude to immigrants and particularly Muslims in Canada/US as compared to Europe makes all the difference since these immigrants come from the same place.

 

And this bastion of 'liberalism' produced Pim Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh - both nasty, anti-Muslim racists - one of which got elected to Parliament. Next I assume you will tell me that Austria's Jorg Haider is a cuddly puppy.

 

 

Let me understand this: you're suggesting it is OK to kill anyone you disagree with?

Now I have no idea how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote - I am quite flabbergasted in fact. The point I was making is that liberal and tolerant societies don't elect to national office committed racists and demagogues. That is in fact the very antithesis of a liberal and tolerant society. Can you name any politician elected to national office in Canada and the US with views similar to Pim Fortuyn, Jorg Haider, Jean-Marie Le Pen??????? Because the electorate has chosen to national office individuals such as these - it completely debunks this myth of liberalism and tolerance.

 

 

On a side note - all of these people who claim 'one must respect Holland's traditions etc.' - Please. Few Muslims have disrespected Holland's traditions. And when a host country INVITES immigrants to its country - it too has an obligation to learn about and accept those immigrants for who they are. Not for being a carbon copy of white Dutch or Swedes.