Too young for hijab?

[Faheema.]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ Indoctrination here we come.

Doesn't that apply to almost everything in life? Madarasa, School, Uni, Work and even marriage

[-Lily-]

Hmm, I don’t think it’s up to us to decide how parents teach their children.

 

If little girls are not required to wear hijab I don’t see why they should? Beginning to wear a scarf should be a significant stage towards becoming a young practising woman and re-affirming one's religious conviction willingly.

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ Heh. How sneaky of you, North. YOU were supposed to answer this question.

 

ps

North and Ibti,

 

This is not about arguing with Johnny. He has valid points. It's a public forum. If you don't want to talk to him personally then don't talk to him but you will still have to deal with his well-put argument.

Depends how you define a well-put argument

[Ibtisam]

Ngonge, I don't see what is so important that he said, like he said it is a view. :rolleyes:

 

to sum him up; Religion is used by insecure parents against their kids' underdeveloped cognitive abilities, therefore it is a hindrance to their education and critical thinking.

 

The same could be said for values, culture, Manners etc. A child's knowledge is made of what they absorb around them in their society and what their parents teach them. Religion is no different, the values they pick up and learn in a Islamic household will inevitable have basis in religion even if they do not go to a formal Islamic school. :confused: The same argument could be used against taking them to school, work etc. As they get older they will learn to question and re-affirm or leave that which their parents and everyone shared. I don't see what it is so complicated about that. People change in life and take different directions.

 

Parents are there to shape their children views, values and beliefs.Sheeko kaal keen meesha.

[Johnny B]

Cara, i'd to agree with ibti ( in that case i'll skip loosing one of my ear hair daily, like Ngonge does as he tries banging witt into her head ) regarding it beeing an innocent act.

 

As for the indoctrination, depending on how you see it, in a way or another a great deal of it goes with whatever parenting means,preparing your offspring for a fit survival is almost a gene-duty ,yet knowing the amount of blurring you make onto your kids mind will reflect on that young persona, helping that persona develop it's own path, even if it means committing same faults as you is (should be)the way to go, me thinks.

 

i know it's a hard task .

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by +Faheema:

quote:Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ Indoctrination here we come.

Doesn't that apply to almost everything in life? Madarasa, School, Uni, Work and even marriage

Of course it does. But if you're being indoctrinated as an adult and allow it to happen then it's your fault. To get brainwashed as a child as another ball game altogether. I am not in agreement with Johnny by the way. I just find Ibti's argument very weak.

 

Edit:

By the way, North and Ibti, you two are not arguing at all here. You're twisting and turning.

 

Depends how you define a well-put argument kulaha!

 

Parents shape their children's views, she says. How? You have not come up with one convincing argument to convince old senile me, how are you going to convince and shape a four year old's views? Other than following the 'do what I say and don't ask any questions method'.

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by Ibtisam:

The same argument could be used against taking them to school, work etc.

 

Parents are there to shape their children views, values and beliefs.Sheeko kaal keen meesha.

and that is where the coockie crumbles folks :cool:

[STOIC]

Young kids wearing hijab is most likely not a must moral badge, but rather a reflection of parent’s devotion to molding of their children’s deep connection to their GOD. Whereas I personally believe that parent should not be forcing their young one’s with a heavy stress of defining themselves at such young age in a fabric culture that is hard to accept people that don't look like them, I think it is a great idea to expose them to their religion and prove it to them that veiled women are not suppressed as the society wants them to believe.

 

Many young western educated women are today choosing to wear the Hijab out of their own choice to assert their identity as a Muslim. Now unless the kid is schooled at an Islamic school or home schooled I think burdening the kid at a younger age will create a gendered Islamophobia .I think when the time is right these young girls will wear the Hijaab at their own pace. Adopting Hijab is not an easy thing to do. People struggle with it before they come to the conclusion of putting on one. If the kids are pressured to wear the hijab at a younger age subtly or not so subtly there is high chances that they may abandoned it once they go past puberty. Today many second Generation Muslim born Americans take up the Hijaab out of choice unlike their parents who abandoned it when they landed on this side of the Atlantic.

[NGONGE]

^^ NO it is not. Keep your eye on the ball. Don't let her confuse you, saaxib. School, work and the like requires explanation. There is education involved there. You are talking about putting a scarf on an infant's head.

[cynical lady]

Devils advocate.

[-Lily-]

Erm, Ngonge, putting aside politically correct sentiments and smart solutions, here it is very simply put.

 

A, you have a parent who is a practising and deeply religious Muslim. This parent believes 100% in God, afterlife, hell & heaven. This parent is a loving parent who wants to raise a God pleasing child/adult, who avoids hell fire and resides in paradise with him/her in the afterlife. This parent will naturally try to steer child towards the path they believe is the right one.

 

Parent B, is a non believer. Parent B loves their child, they want them to ‘reach their own conclusions’ in life without religion to tell them what to do. So they let their child roam free and decide what to be & believe.

 

It seems almost impossible to raise a child without some form of indoctrination, weather this is viewed as positive or negative.

[Cara.]

Johnny, from a biological perspective, raising your child to be religious is the fittest strategy

 

But even in less technical terms, it still would be a moral imperative for a religious parent to teach their child right from wrong, as the parent understands it. If this means preventing said child from experiencing the joys of an unfettered mind, then so be it. It's their immortal soul we're dealing with here, not your everyday mistakes and faults.

 

Say you have a swimming pool in your backyard. Your 3 year old finds the sight well nigh irresistible. Are you going to sit down and explain all about how gills work, and how we lost ours millions of years ago, and that someday you'll teach her to swim, but now you'd REALLY prefer if she just sat quietly by the pool while you go and grab a soda? Or are you gonna lock the screen door and tell her in no uncertain terms to stay away from the pool or else? Is it acceptable, in other words, to impose your will on a child until such time as they can make their own decisions? How is religious indoctrination any different?

 

This applies to Ngonge as well.

[Ibtisam]

Ngonge I think you just want to argue you for the sake of it. Even JB has agreed with me long time ago. Look above :cool:

 

There is no way of getting around this, you parents will influence what you do and the your way of thinking, when you grow older, you keep what is useful and dish the rest. The arugument is whether they do this well or not. I don't see the big deal.

[Cara.]

Lily and Ibti, you have to understand it's not just the person Ngonge or Johnny you're arguing with. It's also the entities Giant Male Ego Ngonge and Be Quiet Little Lady Johnny

 

Even when they know they should concede they won't give an inch. Endearing really.

[N.O.R.F]

I'm yet to fully understand Ngonge's argument. He seems to be hiding behind Johnny whilst stating he disagrees with him!

 

Ngonge, give us an earful pal.