Too young for hijab?

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by NinBrown:

dadkiinaan fahamka ayaa niigu yar.

I would think it's rather due to the lack of solid Islamic knowledge and tarbiya than fahmad dari (not just some SOlers, but it applies to the wider Somali population). Just as you have people ritualistically observing exoteric acts of worship without questioning the reason or undertanding the revealed wisdom behind it to build their imaan, you have people questioning the validity of those very acts of worship to challenge Allah's laws. Ignorance is an affliction.

[winnie]

hijab is worn not only so women dont get harassed, but also as a marker of our beliefs.

 

the hijab identifies us as believers; id raise my kid to love the hijab, and everything else about islam. they wouldnt be forced to wear it prior puberty, but insha Allah they would be familiar with it.

 

they would definitely be forced to dress modestly in public though (like if i buy them dresses, they should cover the shoulders, and say past 8-9yrs old the legs would be covered as well).

at special events like weddings/eids i would encourage them to wear the hijab.

i mean, they can take it off and put it on whenever, play with boys, rough house, it doesnt matter, but i plan on raising them in such a way that they would be proud of their deen, and knowledgeable of their obligations.

 

i dont think we have to condition them into islam; id prefer kids who ask questions and think rather than pavlov's dogs.

i mean, ideally, we want kids to say, "Islam is my religion of choice", rather than "Islam was my parent's choice".

[Cara.]

Ngonge, if I understood you right, you think 9 year olds are old enough to be forced to wear the hijab. My question is the same one you asked Ibtisam: how would you explain to a 9 year old that she must now cover herself up? What's changed about her body from when she was 4, or 7 or 8?

 

At some point, you mention that a nine year old gets beaten up if they don't pray as if this is any more reasonable than forcing a 4 year old to wear the hijab. And yet complain about "raising Muslim robots"! That's a little confusing, my dear. It's as challenging for a 9 year old to pray as it is for a 4 year to wear the hijab, and in both cases you must explain yourself to the child, with no guarantee that they understand. If you're beating the 9 year old for not praying, then you have resorted to "do as I say and don't ask any questions". Why is it egregious in one case and not in the another?

 

By the way, there was no question of force in the original question, nothing about MAKING 4 year olds cover themselves up. You're adding an unnecessary intensifier there. Most little girls will do as they are told with a bit of encouragement and bribery, if it's not too unpleasant. People here referred to it as "practice" which by definition means it's not the real thing, and won't be treated as such. So is gentle encouragement off the books, as it will be (by Johnny's definition) indoctrination?

[N.O.R.F]

I'm 'baffed' as reer London youth would say :confused:

 

Is it me or has everyone completely lost the plot? Let me quote the original post for eveyone and hope that they get back on track (don't let Ngonge's 4 year old theory confuse you).

 

I was just going through posts and I saw another member's signature which had a small girl wearing the hijab. that brought me back to the time I visited Somalia and I saw all these little girls (children no older than 9) wearing hijab as part of their school uniform. a 7-year-old wearing the hijab...to me, that's a bit off.

I (and others) have tried (in vein it seems) to explain why wearing the hijab is a fundemental part of growing up and comes from parents encouraging their kids to become aware of it, be proud of it etc etc. If you disagree please put forth your argument!!!!

 

LG,

 

I don't know what your talking about but you have gotten the wrong end of the stick. Re-read the original post and then re-read my replies and tell me where I have gone wrong or off topic.

 

Johnny,

 

I have explained myself. Please address my explaination. No repeating of your original argument will not make it any more palatable.

 

Cara says,

 

It's as challenging for a 9 year old to pray as it is for a 4 year to wear the hijab, and in both cases you must explain yourself to the child, with no guarantee that they understand.

Good point. As my earlier statement, a 12 year old will not, in most cases, fully understand why they are wearing the hijab (alot of adults don't), so what is the difference?

 

Cara says:

By the way, there was no question of force in the original question, nothing about MAKING 4 year olds cover themselves up. You're adding an unnecessary intensifier there.

THANK YOU!!! Address the ORIGINAL question boys and girls and leave the convenient 4 year olds alone.

[Som@li]

Sagari waa cabtaa iyo macabto miyay maraysaa, Choose 9 year with Hijab or with jeanis and showing her belly button.

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Adam Zayla:

(walahi i'm very slow in the morning, i could look at a turned off TV for a good 15 min before realizing it's ''turned off'')

[Emperor]

Kids should be trained and encouraged to wear Hijab from a young age, and then as they become adults they have a choice of whether to keep or not...

 

Meesha dood mataalo ee waa kaalay ila Muran...

 

 

Jonny why do you refer the Hijab as a tent, how dare you man, it is an Islamic obligation upon every Muslimah and huge part of their Diin as Muslims...

[Fabregas]

Tolow had maxa la isku haysta?

 

 

It's up to the parents what they want their children to wear. I don't think people would have problem, if parents dressed their little girls in scanty clothes that resemble the rusty outfits anaresic TV whores. In this case young girls are indoctrinated by TV and society on how to dress and act from an early age. No problems with this, ya ikwhan al liberaliyiin? No problems when SOmalis wear Trousers? It's not part of Western Culture, ya? It's part of civilisation, so maha?

 

Of course, there is a great problem and the world is up to end when Somalis choose to dress their children in "tents" and have to "hide" themselves". This is child abuse and Somalis are in danger of being converted into Wahabi-Suicide Bombers! Arabs are taking over our Dhaqan!

[AfricaOwn]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ Heh. How sneaky of you, North. YOU were supposed to answer this question.

 

ps

North and Ibti,

 

This is not about arguing with Johnny. He has valid points. It's a public forum. If you don't want to talk to him personally then don't talk to him but you will still have to deal with his well-put argument.

He has valid points if you're not using the Fiqh as the standard to judge this debate.

[MAXIMUS POWERS]

The issue of how young a child wears the hijab depends on the discretion of the parents. I personally believe it’s unwise for children to be coerced in wearing religious articles at such a young age. This deprives of learning about other cultures and makes them more segregated in the long run. As Jack Straw famously said- 'it’s a mark of separation' and this is completely true.

[Paragon]

We've become too liberal to turn back. To the point where we argument issues and rulings that were as clear as day light before.

 

Waxaad ka dheeftaan!

[MAXIMUS POWERS]

^ whats too conservative - making a little girl wear a relgious article at the tender age of 5! come on sxb! get with the world. this is not somalia! we live in the west! rather than segregating ourselves even further, maybe we should be a bit accommodating.

[Paragon]

^Which world are we talking about, mate? A world furnished with Islamic values, or the other world, the one of Sir Churchill, and of liberal bliss?

 

So, MARX, will you wear the cross to come across as a bit accommodating? 'This is not Somalia'. Ofcourse it isn't. But both Somalia and here are God's (if you believe in him) earth. That's how I see it. And strangely enough, that's how the Westerners see it. And for that reason, they've given me the leeway to practice my religion as it was commanded. Now you on the other hand, in your bid to please them, want me to be more accommodating towards what? Liberalism? But the liberals don't want me to do so? Why you?

 

The issue here, does not so much revolve around the age at which our daughters can be encouraged to cover up, but rather, it entails a deeper intention to demonise the 'hijab', as an Islamic attire, to the young as well as to the old who maybe nurturing doubts and lax attitudes in their minds. Folks who are in a liberal comfort zone. The hippies wanna be of the day. Ah they are called the agnostics or the questioners .

 

Girls are not required to cover up because their bodies have reached a 'cawro' age, but in fact, the requirement is in line with preparation for the girl to achieve a transition into an adulthood that conforms with Islamic commandments. The mistakes many families, mostly those who's faith is really, and I mean really LAX, make is that they deploy the lame excuse of saying 'let the girls develop into wearing the hijab' instead of assisting them to do so.

[Ms DD]

Wacdarro. Smithyiyow we live in the west yaah? Lets not segregate ourselves and integrate so well that we lose our identity and deen. Walle soomalida waxbaa heysta

[Paragon]

^Hey MsDD. How are you (and your friend)?