Too young for hijab?

[Ibtisam]

^^^Loooool Sorry I did forget that :cool: Giant male ego and bequiet little lady loool Hahah

[Johnny B]

^Now that we've gathered enough seriousity into our exchanges ,i'd happy to sift through the vile intentions of religious indoctrination from the perspective of educational psycholog, juts in the next few minutes, but first , let me not spoil it for Ngonge , as i can see him positioning himself in an attaching position.

 

Ibti, i did agree with you for a good reason, lest you think Serenity went into idle kicking dead whales down the peach.

[Ms DD]

Young girls should be mutilated (in la gudo), made to wear hijab and most importanly ..in loo carbuuniyo her young cousin jaamac for when they grow up.

[NGONGE]

Your swimming pool analogy is feeble, Cara.

A four-year-old child not wearing the hijab is not going to suddenly plunge into sin, whilst one loitering around a swimming pool may drown.

 

Again, I ask you to keep your eye on the ball (not what you think the argument is). The question asked is in the title of the thread.

 

Reasonable explanation of what you're doing though may be a form of indoctrination is still miles better than forcing a child to follow norms and customs blindly. A four-year-old, as clever as they may be, is NOT going to understand the meaning behind the hijab. The benefits from making them wear it that early are minuscule and mostly relate to parents' vanity.

 

The people arguing FOR the hijab here are using all sorts of silly arguments about habits, customs and other outrageous things. It's as if you're training a dog rather than a human. It's fair enough if we're talking about some irrelevant tradition or ancient custom but when it's a religious issue; you are encouraging the spread of Muslim robots.

 

Again, before you go on a tangent about egos and what not, remember the original question: too young for hijab?

[NinBrown]

Ibti your well on point. What is Ngonge point here...i really dont understand it.

 

As for indoctrination the Prophet Muhammad said, "No child is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

[N.O.R.F]

A child is incapable of understanding the concept and importance of the hijab (many adults are aswell). However, some parents will try to ensure their daughter(s) is 'aware' of it's significence in Islam and that it is a symbol of Islam. Encouraging one's child to wear it from a young age is usually coupled with explainations, quran lessons (I'm mean, who didn't go to malcaamad?) etc. It comes as part of a whole package that actively informs the child that:

 

1 - Islam is the truth

2 - They are Muslim(s)

3 - Tenets of faith

 

Therefore, informing one's child of his/her religion and the his/her duties under that religion is expected irrespective of age. Although a full understanding will not be obtained by a 9 year, you are expected to do the informing and if that involves encouraging them to wear the hijaab, take them to learn the Quran (even though they may not understand what they are reading) then so be it. Correct there needs to be a balance in a childs life but I don't see how wearing the Hijab restricts that balance.

 

As Ibti already mentioned, a parent is responsible for how his/her child's mind is developed over the years. A muslim will usually do his/her best to ensure his/her child adheres to his/her faith.

 

Is this indoctrinating or teaching duqa Ngonge?

 

I'm sure a 5 years old 'knows' apples are good for his teeth before he is able to do an experiment

[NGONGE]

You’re still missing the point, North. Indoctrination here is used to signify programming. A five-year-old, with the best will in the world, will not understand the meaning or the significance of the hijab. He/She is not obliged to wear the hijab, so what is with the insistence on making them wear it? Walk the straight line with me, saaxib. Don’t go veering left or right (and ignore Nino and Ibti for a minute).

 

The. Question. Was. Asking. What. Age. Was. Too. Young. For. The. Hijab.

 

Some argued that the age does not matter, it’s good for them, they said.

 

How good? We asked.

 

It teaches them the importance of hijab, they said.

 

How does it do it when they’re only children, we asked.

 

It doesn’t matter, parents know what’s good for their children, they said. Plus, it worked for ME, they added.

 

But a child is not a robot, we said.

 

A parent has every right to mould their children, they argued.

 

If putting a piece of cloth on the head of a four-year-old is moulding in your opinion, we think it’s indoctrination (programming), we said.

 

Everything in life involves indoctrination, they said.

 

You don’t know what you’re talking about, I say.

 

The question still remains, why put a hijab on a four-year-old that still probably wets his/her bed? There must be a very strong reason (since it’s not a religious obligation); you are the one supporting this measure, and it is for you to explain yourself.

 

ps

I can see a coherent argument without agreeing with it. Johnny's is coherent. He's asking valid questions.

[Faheema.]

^ LoL, well when you put it so effortlessly, the short and simple answer would be No

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

 

The question still remains,

why put a hijab on a four-year-old

that still probably wets his/her bed?

^^Why not yaa NG?

 

 

NG's answer:

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

A five-year-old, with the best will in the world, will not understand the meaning or the significance of the hijab. He/She is not obliged to wear the hijab, so what is with the insistence on making them wear it?

Xiin: but NG the point is not about understanding the significance of Hijaab. The point is to expose that five-year old to the Hijaab! If you think that early exposure will not make any difference, then you are in for a heated debate...

[Ibtisam]

Ngonge: I think you need to READ what Johnny said, rather than what you assumed he said. :cool: You are pushing different ends and saying different things.

 

You want to know why a child who is not required by Islam should wear a Hijab?

We said it is good practise, It will become second nature to them, they can get comfortable in it and it affirms the rest of what you would teach them about Islam. We said that it will not come to them as shock when they reach puberty and you suddenly throw a hijab their way thinking they will just doom it on. I say it will give them a sense of Islamic community, belong and start the process of identity formation. We said it again and again and in so many different ways. WHAT DO YOU WANT?? :rolleyes:

 

Same way you would teach your child how to pray, BEFORE they reach puberty, so they know how, what to read, where to face, why, how etc. You don’t expect them to get up and magically do it as soon as it become compulsory on them.

 

Bottom line is practise makes it perfect.

[NGONGE]

^^ Stuff and nonsense, Ibti. I ask again: why would you MAKE a four-year-old wear a hijab. You don’t MAKE them pray five times a day, why make them wear a hijab everyday? It’s really simple. Don’t twist and turn.

 

Xiin,

I’ve already done that with North. If you’re for four-year-olds wearing the hijab then you must already know why. Or is it just because it sounds good?

[xiinfaniin]

^^I got it saaxiib...read my edits above !

[N.O.R.F]

The question still remains, why put a hijab on a four-year-old that still probably wets his/her bed? There must be a very strong reason (since it’s not a religious obligation); you are the one supporting this measure, and it is for you to explain yourself.

That was not the question saxib

 

She was talking about 9 year olds wearing hijab as if it was a new phenomenon. If you re-read my earlier replies I stated it doesn't when a child wears the hijab so long as they are educated about it at the same time.

 

As for the indoctrination question, I think it depends on the way you look at it. I don't think encouraging a 9 year old to wear hijab (with what I explained in my previous post) can be defined as indoctrination. Unless you can explain why it may be the case.

[NGONGE]

^^ A nine year old gets beaten up if they don't pray, saaxib. They're not the subject of my argument. I clearly kept on mentioning five year olds because Ibti thinks they should wear the hijab too.

 

ps

The question was 'how young'.

[N.O.R.F]

Ngonge, who is twisting and turning now?

 

Question is 'how young' yes AND she talked of 7 and 9 year olds losing their childhood!

 

I have explained myself. Do you agree? If not why?