Somalis never had a unity government

[Abdillahi]

I cannot find in Somali nomadic history where Somalis lived under a unity government until 1 July 1960. We live in clan identity and not nation state reality like say Germany or England. Where the people are named after their language. Somali means to "go milk" an action performed by pastoral nomads when they tend to their camels and sheep. We are not a nation but a group of clans and sub clans that complete for resources on the horn of Africa. A real Somali nation has never existed only in the minds of the U.N or delusional minds of Somali folk that wish to transform this nomadic society into a proper nation state. This is what people like Prof. Samatar and others fail to realise. Somalis do not have the intellect nor the culture to build a nation state.

It's time to bulkanise Somalia along clan lines. The project of Somaliland has shown we cannot live in peace and prosperity because clan is too deeply ingrained in the Somali consciousness. There will always be problems because people are inherently sectarian. Look at Kismayo terror attack, can you say that was not clan motivated? Or the bloodshed in El Afweyn.

Time for use to move on from this delusion.

[Che -Guevara]

And if the sub clans and sub-sub clans want their own states?

 

[Abdillahi]

But would *** fight ***? They are both *** so they have a shared identity. I do believe the *** sub clans should each be given a state.

[Che -Guevara]

They will and had fougt each other in the past. In fact,  most wars since fall of  Barre were between sub-clans of the same clan.

[Abdillahi]

Have *** fought ***? that's news to me.

[Che -Guevara]

27 minutes ago, Apophis said:

 

 

Why don’t you go to Somalia or Somaliland or Kenya for a few months to learn a thing or two about your history as a Somali.

I second that.

Abdillahi, you seem like a young kid. Breathe and take time to study unless you are just  trolling.

And divulge a lit bit into the unification of Germany as well as Italy, two nation states that didn't exist before the 19th.

[Abdillahi]

I am not a young kid. My observation are empirical and back by historical literary evidence and not based on oral tradition which is not reliable evidence. If Somalis had a traditional path of development towards a nation state there would be libraries and documented evidence of a written language and culture outside the nomadic start of the somalis. But there is not. We are not a settled society until recently so comparisons to German, England or Italy is not sound as these nation had a traditional path towards a nation state. Some where inspired by the Roman empire  which itself had a 1200 year history of its own. 

Even European anthropologist have noted that Somalis have not had a civilisation but a loose connections of various clans and sub clans competing for water and life stock on a semi arid environment. Even today Somalis  live as they did in those pre-colonial times accept now you have urbanisation. If you are arguing any different I have yet to find evidence for this. As for me going to Somalia I will not. But I have been to Somaliland. I have seen how they live. Somalis are backward in both social and civilisation development. This is the harsh truth. If you compare the Germans who have a 800 year history. Somalis are 100's of years behind other more advanced countries. There is no getting around this fact. Otherwise Somalia would be a successful republic like South Korea, Japan or Taiwan. Since this is not the case  so why continue with the project that is doomed? Balkisation is the only logical course to ease the dysfunction.

Which is what I proposed at the start , to divide Somalia into clan republics as it will save Somalis time and energy and simplify the path towards a nation state.

[galbeedi]

 

7 hours ago, Apophis said:

Maybe you should read an actual history book before coming out with gibberish. 

I think you are in a wrong place. Every Somali kid compares the current situation or his own experience to the larger Somali family.  

Language doesn't determine the authenticity of any nation. Many African countries use French , English or another foreign language as the national language , yet that doesn't determine their  history, culture or existance. Italy became a republic just before the turn of century, that doesn't mean the Romans were all italians. people and communities  transform from tribes to nations.

Mind you the nation state is a modern creation of the Europeans. People lived as tribes united either by geography or culture. There were Somali empires in the horn since the  thirteenth century, the likes of : Adal, Ifat, Ajuuraan, Osmania , Water Maal and others for centuries who fought the colonials from Portuguese to Abyssinian and the  Italians. There were also a Somali group the fought both the British and the Italians some 120 years ago. I think they are called " Daraawiish" if you ever heard of them.

Arabic , the language of the Quran , was extensively used in most Somali territories for recording things. Go find out when The Sawahili tribes in east Africa and when they had written their language. Unlike Somalis, there is no such thing people called Zimbabwe, Congo or even Kenya. In Kenya, a combinations of tribes, Kikuyu, Luo, Turkana and even Somali ones had given certain geography  by the British Tanganyika and then called Kenya.

In any event,  these place is not fit for your narrow experience. Come back in a few years. If you don't even know how Ahmed Madoobe looks , how could you interact with people in this political section which is no the best of places . Go to the general section and other places and see you in a few years. I have been generous here.

[maakhiri1]

10 hours ago, Che -Guevara said:

I second that.

Abdillahi, you seem like a young kid. Breathe and take time to study unless you are just  trolling.

And divulge a lit bit into the unification of Germany as well as Italy, two nation states that didn't exist before the 19th.

He is not young, he was well over 30

[Tallaabo]

14 hours ago, Apophis said:

Somalia and Somalis have a much longer history than you give credit.

 

Why don’t you go to Somalia or Somaliland or Kenya for a few months to learn a thing or two about your history as a Somali.

..... and Djibouti and Ethiopia. 

Most people think the problems of our society is because of our clan system. However, that is not correct as all the shortcomings of our society is ultimately rooted in the lack of taqwa(fear of God) and the prevalence of ignorance among most people especially politicians. A God-fearing wise or educated man or woman will simply not be fooled by a clan chauvinist into supporting a campaign detrimental to the general wellbeing of society. 

[maakhiri1]

5 hours ago, Apophis said:

Coconut

what?

[cadnaan1]

China had 7 States before it was united by man called Qin he was fed with the  7 States had non stop wars between them each state was attacking the other and he united them by force.

[Abdillahi]

When the union of Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland was signed into agreement between the colonial administrations. Were there any Somalis that objected to the union? I believe that there were and this is the foundation of my argument. Egal signed an agreement with the UK government to form a government in Somaliland, who gave him the idea to unite with Italian Somaliland? These two groups don't know each other and have not mixed with the southern clans in history, the north is very xenophobic and isolated. Otherwise if these two regions had know about each other for 100's of years as some claim. Then the North concerns and economic needs would not have been ignored and dismissed as if these people were foreigners from another country. To form a society based on merit would have been easy but this was not done.This simple error continued unchecked until it became too late. Other clans were at each other throats before 1988 but like a frog in a pot it will boil over and kill the creature in time. No Somali could see a way out accept through violence. What is in Somali culture that does not allow peaceful transfer of ideas? Do you see the dysfunction?

The root cause of the failed Somali nation state experiment is simple. Somalis do not see each other as Somali. This consciousness does not exist. To pretend it does it wasting time.  Somalis see each other in terms of clan. Barre simply exposed how weak this idea of Somali nationalism is. His military government towards the end comprised of mostly Darood clans. To make the point even more. The resistance movement that spring up in the 1980 SNM (Isaaq) SSDF (Darood) and USC (Hawiyah) were all sectarian at their foundation.Which is why even a democratic government can not hold back the continuous competition between Somalis and sometimes even within the same clan.

Somalis have yet to find a formula that brings about transformation change to this story. I think starting with clans and building from there is the best lasting formula. As Prof Samatar has stated in his wishful thinking that in order for Somaliland to continue clans have to die. I  am saying in order for any Somali society to continue clans have to live homogeneously in a clan republic. The alternative is anarchy and poverty.

[Che -Guevara]

So you came to a Somali website to tell us that there are no Somalis or no sense of Somali community.

You seem to be conflating a sovereign state with a nation or ethnicity. There might not be one unified Somali sovereign state but there is a Somali nation bound together by a common religion, language, manner/rituals and territory. All this manifest itself into one culture. That is unless you are telling us Somalis have managed to evolve indepent of each other and yet somehow and rather miraculously developed one culture and common ethnicity. 

Your argument of clanism actually reinforces the idea of the Somali identity. Nothing is more Somali than qabyaalad. And that qabyaalad touches every Somali of every region and permeates through all institutions.

Dividing Somalis into smaller groups will not solve the problem as those smaller groups will be faced with the same problems i.e politics around clans and sub-clans and competition for meager resources.

A solution to a problem is mot to create problems.

[Old_Observer]

The biggest problem is normal development interrupted.

Now it cannot go back to the state it was before the rude interruption..impossible

Now cannot contnue straight fom where the Interruptor left...impossible

Now cannot scrap evrything and get on with new arrangement...so far proved impossible.

 

BTW its everywhere around the world. Let alone Somalia that was colonized by completely alien system, even Britain that ruled 1/4 of world population and 1/5 of world lands and seas is splitting up to its Ethnic roots.

 

Somalis were at different stages of development in the 19th century. From ordinary village rule to Sultanates and kingdoms. All this difference was squished into one system. When a foreigner squishes societies goes to lowest. When local power squishes goes to highest.

Ethiopia which says not colonized (fake) is also going through the same. Except has support of every world power and still cannot move forward.

 

One of the solutions in Somalia could be to let go Somaliland and eliminate at least 1/3 of issues.

If the American and Arab project of confederating Somalia, Ethiopia and Eritrea happens then Somalia will be even in worst place. Even Eritreans will line up ahead or equal to Somalis.

 

Another 50 years in the 19th century would have made the Somali similar to the Irans, Mexico..etc. Either Puntland or Somaliland would have imposed themselves until Kenya and Dirdaba.