Criticising Islam

[Najib_TheGtreat]

Hey everyone a newbie here.this is my first tread. I don't know if this has been posted before anyways.

 

I saw a video circulating the net of this woman (Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan) giving speech criticising islam our beloved religion sorry “Can't do link video here link†but i got this link instead so read it up.

 

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1050

 

PS i posted this on another Forum but the somali the users had far more important things to talk about. :rolleyes:

[Najib_TheGtreat]

a few notes I made whilst watching the video.

 

Starts off with a huge pile of annoying rhetoric, no actual substance. She calls Islam a backwards religion, which it isn't possible to argue with as everyone defines "backwards" in any way they want to. She gives no reasons for why Islam is "backwards." My own view is that Islam is the way forwards, and that disbelief and/or polytheism bring us closer to the times of ignorance and chaos before the time of prophet Muhammed (saw). I'm not going to put forward any reason for why that is the case, after all Wafa Sultan didn't, so why do I need to? ...

 

She talks about Islam violating human rights. Human rights is subjective, but still Islam is actually very much in agreeance with the modern western perception of human rights so I won't argue about that. Islam was actually in much more conflict with outside perceptions of what human rights were, when it was revealed, compared to today.

 

She gives no examples of how Islam violates human rights, other than saying that Islam treats women "like beasts." Now she doesn't actually give any examples of this (there aren't any anyway), so I guess I won't bother talking about the common myths people attribute to Islam and women. Islam does not mistreat women.

 

Of course, treating someone like a "beast" is very subjective as well. Someone from an upbringing where women walk around fully dressed and where flirting isn't as common as it is here, might come here and think that women are being treated like sexual objects, and that this is a disgusting and extremely disrespectful practice.

 

She then makes a ****** misquote from the prophet (saw). Of course, once the prophet (saw) is in a battle he is going to keep fighting until the other side either give up and start believing in God, or they are taken prisoner, or they die (and Islam treats prisoners of war very well, look it up). Nobody is going to walk into a battle half-heartedly. However, that doesn't mean he went around fighting with every disbeliever who walked in front of him. In fact, he was extraordinarily patient with the people around him. Islam only allows fighting in certain circumstances. Initially, Muhammed (saw) went through a long period of violent persecution to which he made no reply, just took it and felt upset that people were so aggressive towards the message. Throughout his life, he was extremely sorrowful that the non muslims were so stubborn in their resistance to Islam, he wanted what he thought was best for them. He would become very upset about this and pray to God that they stopped rebelling and took up Islam. Sometimes he would be hesitant to speak to people about Islam because he was afraid they would insult it and, by doing so, incur punishment from Allah. But at the same time, he had to do what Allah ordered him to do, and if Allah wanted him to spread the message, he would have to do this even though he didn't expect positive response. The Qur'an makes reference to this behaviour of the prophet (saw), of course in the end the response became very positive.

 

As I've mentioned earlier as well, Islam is not hostile to other religions. We are told that if people want peace, we should keep to peace. It's only when they don't want peace, as was usually the case back in these times, that war can sometimes be justified. The people whom the muslims fought with early on, all of them wanted to fight and were at war with the muslims. Those who desired peace with the muslims were left alone, and could live side by side with muslims if they so wished (very few did, but there were some).

 

She goes on to give more rhetoric based on this misquote from the Qur'an. She claims that muslims refer to people of other faiths as "apes and monkey" and "people who incur the wrath of Allah." The Qur'an never does this. Here is where the Qur'an refers to people whom incur the wrath of Allah, it's in the very first chapter:

 

"Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.Keep us on the right path.The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. " (Shakir translation, sura 1 verses 5-7)

 

To me, that looks like a general statement, not really referring to anyone in particular. Blatant misquote? Yes.

 

"people of the Book," which is something else she goes on and on about, is simply referring to people who believe in some book which God revealed in times before us. It's actually almost a compliment, it's acknowledging that the books they believe in were also revealed by God, it's not insulting them in any way. Of course it wasn't a singular book, the Qur'an makes reference to the Taurah AND Gospel in the same verse sometimes, acknowledging that they are separate books. It also indicates that there were revelations before these books as well. There is no point in pedantically saying "oh don't say people of the Book, they have many books." Obviously an attempt at more rhetoric.

 

She then returns to the misquotes, and tries to claim that these are examples of Islam insulting other religions. Islam does forbid muslims from insulting people of other religions until our religion has been insulted. Then, we have a choice of whether or not we want to insult back. The main reason for this is that if a muslim insults someone else's religion, they will probably insult our religion back. When they do this, they increase their amount of sin, and as it was forbidden for the muslim to do this, the muslim also increases his amount of sin.

 

She then claims that Islam tries to force itself on others. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread by 118, muslims believe that there is no compulsion in religion. And there is that quote which I put in too, which indicates that there may be people of other religions who are also accepted as submitting to Allah, so obviously we need to be very careful about how we speak to them:

 

Sura 2 Verse 62:

Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

 

She then chucks in more rhetoric about how she thinks Jews are better than muslims. She says "we have not seen a single Jew" do so-and-so... surely there is at least one?

Actually, I think there is probably a lot more than one, it's just rhetoric. She then generalises about muslims again, then finishes off by indirectly telling muslims that they should become more Western before asking for any respect.

 

Now I remember reading in another forum that think this woman is very clever and articulate well she isn’t she is dump who is out of her depth. To be wholly honest with you, I'm just not seeing it. Based on my first impressions from her ****** speech.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Najib_TheGtreat:

Now I remember reading in another forum that think this woman is very clever and articulate well she isn’t she is dump who is out of her depth.

She is bright and articulate... you know that to be true. What's more much of what she said has strong ring of truth to it. So spare me (and us) the charade, will ya?

 

 

Welcome to SOL.

[- Femme -]

You've raised excellent points Najib. I agree with you & a warm welcome to the diverse SOL family.

[Najib_TheGtreat]

Well when it comes to Islam she is out of her depth I’m not going to learn about Islam from some woman who rejected it anyways. She isn’t the only one who has been saying this :rolleyes: - "forget the grand sheikhs of Makkah and Madeenah popping their jugular veins from shouting it to everyone over the world".

 

Islam isn’t about forcing things onto people.

 

According to her just because it says something along the lines of "kill those infidels wherever you see them" it doesn’t mean kill every non Muslim on the planet. BUT then she don’t realise it as Islamic theology perhaps.

And further more she claims Islam to be backwards.

 

There have been a couple of people just like this woman in question who say things like this - they are always mainly lesbians who can’t find their way of life acceptable in Islam so they resort to criticising the quraan and living in an apartment in Seattle with their partner and a *****cat.

 

Still I don’t see what was the point of her speech?

 

So in my opinion she is just plain ****** . With very week points and no actual substance to back up her claims.

[Najib_TheGtreat]

Originally posted by Scarlet:

You've raised excellent points Najib. I agree with you & a warm welcome to the diverse SOL family.

Shukran

[Sharmarkee]

^^

Salaam

 

She could be a deranged lesbian, hate- blinded Jewess, a hypocrite, or a Maronite Christian of Arab origin ,remeber those in Lebonan who used to castrate, and cut the throats of the Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila under the command of Sharon, when Beriut was underseige of that rotten war-crimnal, then later fled to Israel for saftey.

 

No one explains them better than Allah(SWT) in

 

sura 9:32(Atwabah):

Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).

 

ÙŠÙرÙيدÙونَ Ø£ÙŽÙ† ÙŠÙطْÙÙؤÙواْ Ù†Ùورَ اللّه٠بÙØ£ÙŽÙْوَاهÙÙ‡Ùمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّه٠إÙلاَّ Ø£ÙŽÙ† ÙŠÙتÙمَّ Ù†Ùورَه٠وَلَوْ كَرÙÙ‡ÙŽ الْكَاÙÙرÙونَ (32) .

[RendezVous]

Now I remember reading in another forum that think this woman is very clever and articulate well she isn’t she is dump who is out of her depth.

It was makalajabti who first posted it at SOL...

 

Originally posted by Najib_TheGtreat:

There have been a couple of people just like this woman in question who say things like this -

 

they are always mainly lesbians (and gays) who can’t find their way of life acceptable in Islam so they resort to criticising the quraan and living in an apartment in Seattle

with their partner and a *****cat.

 

Still I don’t see what was the point of her speech?

Lolz@a cat

 

Jazakallah Brother, There is a lot you explained that needs to be posted to the Memri tv..

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Najib_TheGtreat:

Hey everyone a newbie here.this is my first tread. I don't know if this has been posted before anyways.

 

I saw a video circulating the net of this woman (Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan) giving speech criticising islam our beloved religion sorry “Can't do link video here link†but i got this link instead so read it up.

 

PS i posted this on another Forum but the somali the users had far more important things to talk about. :rolleyes:

Check the addresses of Memri.Tv

It is a pro american Tv Station.

MEMRI's general contact information:

 

MEMRI

P.O. Box 27837

Washington, DC 20038-7837

Phone: (202) 955-9070

Fax: (202) 955-9077

 

Please direct all general inquiries to memritv@memri.org.

 

What do u expect...???

[Rahima]

Welcome to SOL Najib and ignore SB (you’ll soon enough realize why).

[makalajabti]

Welcome Najib, I am a newbie here too but I already got a stalker-friend (Flip)

I think that women you are talking about got some points. She is criticising muslims not Islam. And unfortunately the Muslim World got some deep issues on women's rights even though Islam is a perfect religion we cannot say the same about its followers.

We should let everyone expresses his/her views so we can debate of our problems and seek some solutions.

[Khalaf]

Salaamu Lah,

 

^^^^^^Sister instead of worrying about saving the muslim women across the world (They have Allah Most High), first help & save yourself-learn your deen.

 

 

Welcome Brother, and follow the advice of sister Rahima.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Rahima:

and ignore SB (you’ll soon enough realize why).

Says the mendacious one. At least keep one face, will ya?

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by AbdulNoor:

To Makalajabti and the crew

 

...Sister instead of worrying about saving the muslim women across the world (They have Allah Most High),

first help & save yourself-learn your deen.

What do u expect with a TV station dedicated to cause confusion within Islam

 

Their Headquarters is in america same as Al-Hurra TV station which was formed by The US government but didn't live to it's expected Mis-Information against Aljazeera..

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is a pro american TV Station.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MEMRI's general contact information:

 

MEMRI

P.O. Box 27837

Washington, DC 20038-7837

Phone: (202) 955-9070

Fax: (202) 955-9077

 

Blah Blah Blah....Memri...Think much!!!

[Ibtisam]

^^^you only have one tv station to worry about, maybe I’m getting paranoid :rolleyes:

i don't think normal people use TV as a source of knowledge, unless it is the discover TV