So it begins, Federal Govt issues statement on election process in Jubbaland

[Haatu]

59 minutes ago, Tillamook said:

This thread has turned into the usual Somali nonsense of who came where and when...I believe in the great scheme of things, it’s all irrelevant.

Ultimately, Jubaland like the rest of Somalia, belongs to Somalis, and no matter how much one tries to claim sole ownership of the place over it vis-à-vis other Somalis, the fact will remain that NO single clan, family or individual will ever dominate Jubaland and for that matter the rest of Somalia.

 

You're right, Somalia belongs to all Somalis. Can we extend that notion to Puntland as well? Or is it just for Jubbaland?

PS: Before others get other ideas, let me reiterate that I support and have always supported Soomaaliweyn and a strong centralized Somali state. I don't believe in federalism nor do I believe in any other foreign, imported notions of governance. That said, I refuse to stand by whilst others deny my existence and rights.

[Che -Guevara]

Your existence? You  mean your clan since you are  Sijiu.

What happened to your Kenya flag avatar

[Tillamook]

18 hours ago, Haatu said:

You're right, Somalia belongs to all Somalis. Can we extend that notion to Puntland as well? Or is it just for Jubbaland?

PS: Before others get other ideas, let me reiterate that I support and have always supported Soomaaliweyn and a strong centralized Somali state. I don't believe in federalism nor do I believe in any other foreign, imported notions of governance. That said, I refuse to stand by whilst others deny my existence and rights.

First of all, Somalia belonging to Somalis is NOT a “notion”, it is an irrefutable FACT.

Secondly, since Puntland is Somalia and Somalia is Puntland; I will let you, at your own leisure, infer the answer to the snide and unwarranted question you’ve raised in here.

Thirdly, Bwana Haatu,  in my opinion, the only viable political mechanism now underway for Somalia to help entrench political freedoms and build accountable political institutions— and in which,  as you put it, you may fully protect your “existence and rights” is Federalism.  

Now it just might be that the term Federalism seems a bit “foreign” to your ears,  but it is nothing more than that old adage of Somalis: “Geeljire,  geela waa wada jirtaa, waana kala jirtaa”. The truth of which is recognized by the wisest as well as the simplest of Somalis.

Federalism ensures the “others” you refer to above, never again get the opportunity to trample upon your rights; whilst,  the strong Central state you call for risks the  incipient revivification of mass injustices and human rights abuses, akin to those suffered by most Somalis under the previous Kacaan regime.

By the by,  wasn’t the Centralism enforced by the former Kacaan government not a “foreign” form of governance over the nomadic peoples of the Somali peninsula?

Somalis, who had heretofore been a confederation of tribes and clans who were leading free and autonomous political associations codified under their own respective Xeer? 

In any case, Haatu,  your intentions for wanting a strong state and government for our people is commendable. However, I do not believe Centralism will lead to such an outcome.

Centralism, however well intentioned, in fact, almost always leads to some form of authoritarianism, which in turn almost always terminates with the collapse of a society, of one form or other. A prime example being the Somalia of the late 80’s among many other around the world.

On the contrary, it is Federalism, instead, with all its checks and balances—and is tune with Somalis tribal culture—that will deliver the correct outcome we all yearn for: A Somalia that is prosperous and at peace with itself and that competes effectively in the global space.

 

[galbeedi]

Haatu.

I wish I had intervened earlier to put my few cents earlier. Anyway, The Warday you call former slaves and keep denigrating are Somalis and have settlements in both Jubba and Kenya. They have members in the federal and Jubba parliament. 

I do not know where you get these stories. Also, I am not really sure but I remember an old friend of mine from Baydhabo told me  that the Farmaajo clan had settled in Gedo early twentieth century. Even Gedo itself is shared by others like Garre, and people from South West. Beledxaawo, Ceelwaaq and even baardhere might be shared by others.

I always heard that the OG were mostly based in Afmadow and Qooqaani area. Bedises, do you know how many OG were elected in the Somali parliament from 1960-69?, that could be a parameter to measure the population. I am assuming that the OG were not considered as principal players in those era. Please correct me if I am wrong .Either The population of the tribes in JUbba had grown tenfold for the last 30 years for many reasons,  immigration ,birth or otherwise , because , I never heard anyone claim these regions in the eighties , nineties or even early 2000, especially OG. .In early 2000, Walaalaha Galgaduud ayaa ka talinayey degaanka. 

And how about the locals whether they are Wardaay, Sheekhaal, Gaadsan, digil mirf, Bahjuun? They have less numbers than the Harti and others.

 

Certainly this place is different than many other regions dominated by one or two clans.

[Old_Observer]

Everybody that is there is now there regardless when they came.

That is the only formulae that works the best.

The O are trying to take HoA one enclave at a time. Who is next, Mogadishu?

The Kenyans and Ethiopians are at risk of being ruled by the O next 20-30 years.

[Haatu]

12 hours ago, Che -Guevara said:

Your existence? You  mean your clan since you are  Sijiu.

What happened to your Kenya flag avatar

I don't believe in colonial borders

That avatar was bothering me for a long time. I hope the admin had a nice laugh when he chose that one.

Galbeedi,

Those "stories" are verifiable Somali history. The wardey we were talking about are the historical wardey who owned the land before us. They were gaalo oromo ah oo markii dambe dhulka laga kiciyay oo la addoonsaday. Kama hadlayn kuwa hadda walaalaheen ah ee Islaamay, Soomaalina iska noqday. Hadda waa dad fiifiican oo inaga mid ah. Ijaar bayba ii yihiin kuwa wardey ah oo xoolahayga ayay ii raacaan (me personally speaking that is).

As for who is majority, that was never the topic of our conversation. We all know where O live and where the other clans live. My only argument is, intayda la ii aqoonsan yahay ha la ii daayo oo sheegashada ha la iga daayo. Dad baa maanta Badhaadhe igu haastaa wax kaleeto iskaba daayee. Laakiinse nin kale dhulkiisa ma sheeganin, anaa majoritu ahna ma dhihin.

As a side note, the O of the area historically did not treat the NFD and Jubbaland as separate areas, to them it was one area known as Waamo. Haraha Waamo in Jubbadda Hoose all thr way till Dhasheeg Waamo on the Jubba river was dry season grazing. Come the rains, the O would move to Wajeer and the Tana river basin. So the land and the people are one and the same which is why the colonial border is so illogical. That might explain why the population was low during the 60s (tbf the whole of Waamo has a low population density due to the fact that it is a relatively newly conquered land). Things are different today due to viligisation. Nin walba dhulkiisa degmad ayuu maanta ka samaystay.

Another side note, Waamo is really the western banks of the Jubba and beyond, not the Eastern banks facing shabeellaha and koonfur galbeed. That area has a totally different demographic. Don't confuse Waamo with Jubbaland.

I am done with educating you guys on Waamo history. I see rag badan baa iska daa in ay dhulkayga ii oggolaadaan ee diidanba taariikhdayda. Illeen wixii aan maqli jiray beense moodi jiray baa run ah oo dad badan baa O arki karin.

[Che -Guevara]

Says the Borana currently working as Kikuyu bot.

[Che -Guevara]

5 hours ago, Apophis said:

 

But being an unrepentant Alshabab supporter, tell me how did you justify what your colleagues did in Zobe.

That doesn't should concern a Borana and I don't have colleagues. Don't confuse me with you, a creature that sucks up to men. Now shuush.