In 2008, 360000 people were stopped for terrorism

[MAXIMUS POWERS]

Originally posted by Geel_jire:

A Question for you MARX, there was a Brazilian electrician, who was shot by the UK police just after the 7/7 bombing because he was wearing a backpack and looked like an Arab.

 

what happened to "The system allows for fairness and due process. If you have nothing to hide then there shouldn’t be any problems.

" ?

 

I'm curios as to how you think integration would have saved his life

The system does allow for fairness sxb, unfortunately we can’t be responsible for rogue police officers. We need to consider the circumstance under which Mr. De Menzes was shot. There was heightened tension; it was only a week after the 7/7 atrocities were committed by extremist. I do acknowledge that there was incompetence on behalf of the police but justice will prevail and those responsible for this tragic and savage act will be punished for their brutal attack on an innocent man.

 

Originally posted by Khayr:

Where can I find the Diana Whitening cream that you got?

Every time the integration argument is presented, those who are antagonistic to citizenship attempt to racialise the whole notion of integration. You don’t have to lose your sense of self to integrate into your host country. Rather than having nostalgia for a ravaged and improvished country where no rule of law exists, I think it better to integrate and make the most of the opportunities we have our host countries.

 

It could to a large extent be argued that the reason for the success of the Asians and in particularly Indians could largely be attributed to integration. These peoples have integrated but have retained a sense of identity and cultural heritage. Thus, they have integrated but voluntarily segregated themselves from the mainstream society.

 

How can I be accused of trying to be white, when I am suggesting that we take our place among the mosaic of nationalities and ethnicities in these countries??? :mad: :mad:

[N.O.R.F]

^Please reconcile how being 'intergrated' stops one from being questioned at airports. You seem to be sticking to your unloaded guns here (your argument is irrelevent)

[Geel_jire]

MARX you dont travel much do you ?

 

I guarantee you, no matter how assimilated or integrated you are .. you will be harassed at airports.

 

 

here is an example of how bad the 'fair' system has gotten:

 

The US Transportation authority has what they call a no-fly list AKA 'Blacklist' which is essentially a list of the permutation of all Muslims names as surname, firstname i.e ali, mohamed & mohamed, ali (may be a slight exaggeration .. but very close)

 

 

The put so many people on that list wrongly, that they now have a 'white list' for people who are not 'terrorists' but whose name ended up on the 'Black list' which is in the 1,000,000 region.

 

Now we wait for another blacklist [for people who are on the whitelist, but shouldn't be.]

 

next time they stop you for having a Muslim name, tell them you are the good domesticated assimilated type ... not the uncouth non-conforming type

 

A wise man once said:

 

"He who would trade in his liberty for temporary security, deserves neither"-- Benjamin Franklin

 

ps: here is the actual bill in the library of congress site Fair, Accurate, Secure, and Timely Redress Act of 2009

[xiinfaniin]

^^

 

This MARX dude worries me

[Nephissa]

There's no way this guy could be for real. Bal give the brother a break, he may have a different definition of "integration."

 

Originally posted by Geel_jire:

next time they stop you for having a Muslim name, tell them you are the good domesticated assimilated type ... not the uncouth non-conforming type.

[/b]

L0L. Walahi I was thinking the same! .

[Paragon]

Hmm. I was stopped three times. One of which I was searched, my hand bag searched and issued a long receipt with every kind of detail of my appearance on it. That was at westminster, trying to get into the tube with a black video camera bag. The policeman was very appologetic afterwards.

 

The other time was at heathrow. A woman and a woman stopped me after my return and asked me some questions about where I do, where I live, my friends and which mosque I pray in, etc.

 

Marka kale it was just a mistaken identity, I guess. Or was it?

 

No big deal.

[Nin-Yaaban]

Marx the issue is not about assimilating, but about getting stopped because your name is on some secret govt database that u don't know how it got on. the least they could do is tell u why your name is on their terror watch list, and what kinda evidence they have on you. and have a way u could fight it, and clear ur name.

[Valenteenah.]

Marx doesn't realise racial profiling doesn't care for integration, or lack thereof.

 

I always get stopped and searched several times at Heathrow. I had a bit of trouble in Italy, where I was passed from one official to another and I was picked out of the line at Melbourne at 'random', when I was the only non-white person in the queue. How random is that? That sort of profiling sucks.

[Nin-Yaaban]

see that's just wrong. if I was ever to get profiled because I looked black, Arab, Latino, or whatever else they use now, I would sue the hell outta them.

[Ibtisam]

MArx I think you got the wrong end of the stick. Integration and racial profiling are two different things as Val pointed out. Black British are the 2nd largest group targeted for stop and search (the were the first before Sept 11) It is a matter of colour and race, rather than how integrated a community is.

 

*Maybe if the police force becomes a multicultural institution, but societal integration does not do much in this regard.

[MAXIMUS POWERS]

I consider myself to be fully integrated model citizen of the UK. Never had any issues with the police. In fact, I have never been approached by the police. When asked a question, I intend not to challenge the authority or try to undermine the power of the police like many Somalis have made a habit of doing so. Those who resist the police should be arrested and locked up.

 

Geel J, you must have looked like a suicide bomber when approached, I hope you’re not a real one at that too. The UK is already fully packed with opportunistic tourist causing some type of damage in different capacities, one less won’t make any difference. Stay where you are and you’ll get no hassle. As for other people who have been stopped and search, the current hegemonic powers decide who is stopped and arrested. Play ball or go back to Somalia.

[Nin-Yaaban]

well every time I get pulled over by the cops I make sure they tell me why they pulled me over. i won't sheepishly submit to their authority. that's just being a *****, and a dummy. they have to have a reason for stopping me. either i violated one of their traffic laws or might have sneazed the wrong way. there is this one Somali cop that always has it for me. either I refused him service on my cab, or we're not from the same qabil.

[Fabregas]

Marx, your still preaching your usual " I am more intergrated than thou Somali refugees" nonsense. But we are still waiting for an explanation as to how being more integrated can help people from getting stopped and search?

[Ibtisam]

-Marx- you are now arguing for the sake of it, without reading what people respond to you. I'm sure you will feel abused if every time you get off at station, some plain cloth individual jumps out the corner into your path and shoves a badge in your face demanding to search you. As it shown by last year figures which I posted, none of those stopped were terrorist or had any links, some of them spending 3days in prison while the police dig their fingers out of their ***. Cooperate or not, that’s the way it will be, and you will be naive to think that they care if you claim to liberal Muslim or perfectly integrated citizen.

 

Somalis say beelayo how yeedaanin

[Ibtisam]

The UK and the US have "actively undermined" international law in the way they fight terrorism, a report by judges and lawyers has said.

 

The independent International Commission of Jurists carried out a three-year global study.

 

It concluded that many measures introduced to fight terrorism were illegal and counter-productive.

 

It called for justice systems to be strengthened and warned that temporary measures should not become permanent.

 

The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) is a non-governmental organisation which promotes the observance of the rule of law and the legal protection of human rights.

 

After a painstaking study carried out over three years in several countries, the panel of eminent lawyers and judges concluded that the framework of international law that existed before the 9/11 attacks on the US was robust and effective.

 

But now, it said, it was being actively undermined by many states and liberal democracies like the US and the UK.

 

The report remarks upon the extent to which undemocratic regimes with poor human rights records have referred to counter-terror practices of countries like the US to justify their own abusive policies.

 

Many governments... have allowed themselves to be rushed into hasty responses to terrorism that have undermined cherished values and violated human rights

 

The report will make uncomfortable reading for many in governments on both sides of the Atlantic, says BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner.

 

The panel said the legal systems put in place after World War II were "well-equipped to handle current terror threats".

 

It said countries should use civilian legal systems to try suspects and "not resort to ad-hoc tribunals or military courts to try terror suspects".

 

The report's authors expressed concern at the lack of adequate safeguards in the use of control orders, the weakness of diplomatic assurances in relation to deportations and "excessive detention without charge".

 

Britain's pre-trial detention time limit of 28 days is one of the longest in the world.

 

The British Home Office said the UK faced a severe threat from terrorism.

 

"We recognise clearly our obligations to protect the public from terrorist atrocities whilst upholding our firm commitment to human rights and civil liberties," it said in a statement.

 

"Our policies strike that balance, with new legislation facing rigorous scrutiny through external consultation and in Parliament as well as being subject to the Human Rights Act, which the UK government enacted."

 

The ICJ report recommended an urgent review of counter-terrorism laws and policies to prevent serious and permanent damage to fundamental human rights principles.

 

The panel reviewed counter-terrorism measures in over 40 countries, and heard from government officials, victims of terror attacks, and from people detained on suspicion of terrorism.

 

It found that many states have used the fear of terrorism to introduce measures which are illegal such as torture, detention without trial, and enforced disappearance.

 

Some of the world's top international law experts served on the ICJ panel, including Mary Robinson, former president of Ireland and former United Nations human rights commissioner, and Arthur Chaskelson, former president of the constitutional court of south Africa.

 

Mr Chaskelson, chairman of the panel, said: "In the course of this inquiry, we have been shocked by the extent of the damage done over the past seven years by excessive or abusive counter-terrorism measures in a wide range of countries around the world.

 

"Many governments, ignoring the lessons of history, have allowed themselves to be rushed into hasty responses to terrorism that have undermined cherished values and violated human rights.

 

"The result is a serious threat to the integrity of the international human rights legal framework."

 

The report also called on the US administration of President Barack Obama to repeal any policies that were instigated under the "'war on terror' paradigm" that were inconsistent with international human rights law.

 

"In particular, it should renounce the use of torture and other proscribed interrogation techniques, extraordinary renditions, and secret and prolonged detention without charge or trial," the report recommended.

 

It added that the US detention centre at Guantanamo Bay should be closed in a "human rights compliant manner", with inmates either released or charged.

 

President Obama ordered the closure of Guantanamo Bay within hours of becoming president last month, as well as ordering a review of military trials for terror suspects and a ban on harsh interrogation methods.

 

BBC