Virginity Lie

[Nephissa]

Waryaaraheen, I didn't put a gun to your head and demanded this stink of sewage. :rolleyes:

 

And a little FYI; a broken hymen is not necessarily indicitave of having had intercourse. There are numerous other ways a woman can break her hymen. All the proverbial pool of blood from a broken hymen waa cow-xaar.

 

re the topic: The guy prolly only married her because he liked the idea of sex with a virgin and was then angry with her bc it didn't turn out how he imagined. :mad:

[Baashi]

Full disclosure dhuubo If it is broken so be it but for crying out loud don't pretend you are fully loaded

 

If you are not a virgin just says so or better don't go out with a man who considers chastity as a critical must-have package and those who kept their legs crossed as marriage material.

 

No need to protest about the choices some men make when it comes to who they should or should not tie the knot with.

[Abtigiis]

Originally posted by Nephthys:

And a little FYI; a broken hymen is not necessarily indicitave of having had intercourse. There are numerous other ways a woman can break her hymen.

How can one be sure when all the Dhakhtar excuses are rampant. Anyway, in a society that is close enough to monitor one another (as in the case of our towns and cities) the history of the lady speaks for itself and people don't jump to conclusions. If she is known for bad reputation, dhiig la'aan ma soconayso. Ninna ka dhagaysan maayo sheeko kale.

 

On a different matter, kan aad is horwadaa (Obama) micno weyn ma leh, yuhuudaa wadata. Wax uu qaban karaa majiro; isagiibaa gacan ku gabad ah. Anglo-saxon'kaas go'aanku ka go'o ayaa dhaami lahaa. Inan layaalka oo dhan baan micno laheyn.

 

BAASHI: Your idea fully seconded. Maxaa Hoos iyo kor baan ka tolonahay keenay,soo inay tidhaa wadadu waa "wabtaquu min fadlilaahi" ee bal waran ma aha???

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Nephthys:

 

re the topic: The guy prolly only married her because he liked the idea of sex with a virgin and was then angry with her bc it didn't turn out how he imagined. :mad:

She lied to him, my dear. He was right to dump the cow.

 

At any rate, if she was going to lie she should have done it the right way and visited one of the many French clinics that reconstruct the hymen. Apparently it is not that expensive. Silly woman.

[Jacaylbaro]

Ii mooori miyaa France ka jirta ?? ,,,

[NGONGE]

^^^^

 

Going to extremes to be virgins — again

Women try hymen repair, get fake virginity certificates before marriage

The Associated Press

updated 7:06 a.m. ET June 26, 2006

SAINT-DENIS, France - Chastity can exact a painful price from young Muslim women, forced into lies or surgery to go to the marriage bed as virgins.

 

Hymen repair, fake virginity certificates and other deceptions, said to be commonplace in some Muslim countries, are practiced in France and elsewhere in Europe, where Muslim girls are more emancipated but still live under rigid codes of family honor.

 

Such ploys have saved many a young woman from scorn and worse. But they also clash with the more liberal social mores of France and Europe, where some decry it as an attack on human rights.

 

The procedures are legal but shrouded in silence — “something that passes through nonofficial channels,” via friends or the Internet, said Dr. Nathan Wrobel. “There are circuits that lead women to me.”

 

‘It’s a secret we share’

Wrobel is one of an unknown number of gynecologists in France who are willing to repair hymens, the membrane usually broken by the first act of sexual intercourse. He was one of the few doctors willing to talk about it.

 

Wrobel says women come to him having convinced themselves that the procedure will somehow reverse the irreversible. “They tell me, ‘I’ll be a virgin again. You will make me a virgin,’ which in reality is totally false .... It’s a secret we share.”

 

Other doctors issue false virginity certificates or offer such tricks as spilling a vial of blood on the sheets to fool families into believing the bride has passed their purity bar.

 

 

Through the ages, virginity has been prized across religions and cultures, and doctors note that only a few generations back European brides also had to furnish documentary “proof” of chastity.

 

Broader question

In today’s France, with an estimated 5 million Muslims — the largest such population in western Europe — it’s part of the larger question of how to deal with cultural clashes ranging from head scarves in schools to sexual segregation in swimming pools.

 

A 2005 government report addressing culture clashes in hospitals, and issued a year after Muslim head scarves were banned from classrooms, briefly mentions the virginity issue, asking doctors to refuse to issue false certificates.

 

Isabelle Levy, author of “Religion in the Hospital,” decries both certificates and hymen repair, saying deception “increases the moral suffering.”

 

In Islam, virginity is linked to bridal purity and family honor, said Dalil Boubakeur, head of the Paris Mosque.

 

He notes that tradition holds that “adre,” virgins, are among the delights of paradise. However, Boubakeur, a doctor and a moderate Muslim, says the Quran does not address premarital virginity, and he is against the deception, counseling bride and bridegroom to confide in each other.

 

It is not known how many doctors in France or elsewhere in Europe help Muslim women to fake virginity. But in Germany, Turkish Muslim immigrants are increasingly seeking virginity certificates, said Serap Cileli, who survived a forced marriage and now helps victims.

 

German doctors who do hymen repair are easy to find, according to Sibylle Schreiber, who works with a women’s rights group in Tuebingen, but it’s “a taboo topic really only discussed best friend to best friend.”

 

Not on the Internet, however, where the desperation in Web forums is palpable. “If you have contacts to help me, I’ll never be able to thank you enough,” writes a woman calling herself Lubna who wants help finding someone to restore her virginity.

 

Wrobel, who teaches at the University of Paris, says he and another doctor at his clinic in a Paris suburb stitch up seven to eight hymens a month in a 20- to 30-minute operation under general anesthesia that he likens to plastic surgery. He asked that the clinic not be named.

 

The price, $500, is steep for a young woman in a poor family and possibly unemployed. A German doctor advertising on the Internet charges $1,250.

 

‘It’s easy to be like a virgin’

Dr. Emmanuelle Piet, who heads the family planning clinics in an area north of Paris where many Muslims live, says she has been issuing a half-dozen virginity certificates a year for three decades.

 

But instead of hymen repair, she suggests less drastic measures, like spilling blood on the sheet on the wedding night.

 

“It’s easy to be like a virgin,” she said.

 

It’s deceptive but “it’s one way to help the girls,” said Piet, a veteran women’s rights advocate. “They are stuck in things so terrible.”

 

In an interview, a French Muslim woman from the northern Paris suburb of Saint Denis, recounted how she was forced to procure a virginity certificate at age 12 “after my mother surprised me with a friend.” Although nothing had happened between her and the boy, her suspicious brothers beat her up, she said, requesting anonymity.

 

By age 19 she had lost her virginity and underwent hymen repair before marrying a man who demanded a virgin.

 

“I wanted to leave home. I took the first one who came along,” the woman said. The marriage ended after five years.

 

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13547996/

[Ibtisam]

^^^WHY france only?? It will be on the NHS soon.

 

------

For some women, if their broken hymen doesn't bleed on their wedding night, there are lethal repercussions, this despite the fact that an intact hymen can only be certain in around 57 per cent of virgins.

 

 

There are calls tonight for a change in NHS guidelines allowing surgeons to carry out hymen reconstruction for women wanting to marry as virgins.

 

Private clinics are reporting a boom in demand for the operation from young women under pressure to prove their virginity.

 

And More4 News has learned that the operation is also being carried out on the NHS.

 

Magdy Hend owns two private clinics in London. Most of the time he treats infertility problems in both men and women. He also performs many genital cosmetic procedures of which hymenoplasty is just one.

 

He showed us the hymen booklet which depicts different types of hymen repair. Many prospective customers are shown it - from the simple stitch to the creation of a flap to cover the vagina and a gelatin capsule filled with a blood-like substance, inserted a few hours before sex.

 

But Dr Hend doesn't do these tehniques. They are too crude, he says, the surgery is obvious and the woman is in danger of getting caught.

 

"The other way," he says, "is to properly repair the hymen, that means we get the hymen, we open it again and stitch it back again, make it heal as it was; this way it is 100 per cent repaired, reconstructed, and is healed, and then when she has the wedding night it will tear and bleed again."

 

Dr Hend says the procedure is short, about half an hour. It is done under local anaesthetic - a relief to many young women who get their hymens reconstructed secretly, during their lunch hour.

 

'I think it is quite unethical to charge a phenomenal fee for a procedure which - in my mind - is a very dodgy operation.'

Erik Scholten, specialist in cosmetic genital surgery

Many of his patients give false names and addresses. Fear and the possible wrath of their future husbands drives them to the operating table.

 

As Hend says: "I am sure some fear the surgery itself. But the fear of the consequences of the marriage if they're not virgins is far higher than the fear of surgery which takes 20 mins or half an hour. It is, for them, lifesaving."

 

This is nothing to do with religion, it is cultural. Some men will look at women who are virgins and believe that because they have not been touched before, they will be sincere, good mothers, good wives. For these men the hymen is - literally - a seal of approval.

 

Most of the women Magdy Hend treats are British from ethnic minorities or immigrants. Demand is increasing; the hymen section of his website gets up to 50 hits a day; he treats around two women a week, and charges £1800 for the procedure.

 

 

Hymen repair is done for purely cultural or psycholgical reasons; it has no medical benefits and makes no visible cosmetic difference.

 

Erik Scholten, Britain's leading specialist in cosmetic genital surgery is utterly sceptical: "I think it is quite unethical to charge a phenomenal fee for a procedure which - in my mind - is a very dodgy operation.

 

"It does not restore hymen at all - it is just a way to make the woman bleed during her first night. And most of the time it is just putting a couple of stitches.

 

"I feel it would be better to bring it out in the open, like abortion procedures. In big clinics they can give you guaranteed certificates, so it is regulated, take it out of the darkness of back streets around Harley Street into mainstream clinics."

 

But hymen repair is happening in mainstream clinics. The information centre for health and social care told More4 News that 24 hymen repair procedures were done on the NHS between 2005 and 2006.

 

The Department of Health wouldn't comment on the procedure, but stated that: "Certain cosmetic procedures may be available to secure physical or psychological health."

 

Many people will be surprised to hear that hymenoplasty, viewed by some as an invasive, degrading procedure, can be performed for free.

 

Diana Nammi campaigns for the rights of Kurdish and Iranian women. She says if hymen repair was more widely available on the NHS, it could prevent many honour killings:

 

"If NHS provided help it would be great, private surgery costs lost of money, they haven't got any money to pay for surgery, NHS understanding importance of issue that could be very great help and save lives."

 

For some men, making sure a woman is a virgin is just another way of controlling her. And many grooms in Britain, usually from Moroccan, Algerian or Tunisian communities, demand virginity certificates - a medical document that states the hymen is intact.

 

Perhaps we are lulled into believing, that in our society all women are in control of their own bodies. But for some women, sex before marriage, comes at a heavy price.

 

 

 

 

Channel 4

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/health/

[NGONGE]

^^ Silly me, what was I thinking. She should come and do it in the UK. More secrecy this way and nobody is likely to recognise her as she sneaks out of the clinic after the op.

[Nephissa]

AT&T: Waxa ku hadle maskax gaboowday, waxan "Hoos iyo kor baan ka tolonahay" aad ka hadlaysaa went out of fashion around dagaalkii xabashida 19 seveni coodh-coodhkii if not before that. Get with the program old man. Stop reading the sex ed pamphlets from the 60's, blood being present is not a telltale sign of virginity. The only place you're going to find mid maryaha dhiig ku reebto these days is if you go to the central Sahara and have at least 5 camels, 2 goats and a marduuf jaad for the dowry.

 

ps: Obama waxa ku diidaysaa wax kale maaha, waa ganfuur weyn, miyaa?

[Abtigiis]

Nephtys

gafuur weyn ninkani ma leh. Waa xariir. Laakiin waxuu tari karaa iska yar. Sidaan qabo; about geeska Africa. I hope I am wrong.

 

Tan kale, dhiigay anaga wali noogu baxdaa!! Actually, the man who told me the story is in his late 60s. I have this bad habit of hanging around with old men!

 

1970s kii ma joogin anigu. Hoyaday baa aroos ahayd. So that you also don't think I am dot.com generation, I will volunteer my year of birth. July, 1973.

[rudy-Diiriye]

LOl...this is the most halarious topic...broken ziplock? is it made of glass! these days.

 

xalimoos will make u believe everything if u is fool. Oh..dee it broke while i was doing Yoga

 

Hey, honestly, i tried 2ice...its impossible.

[SCORPION_SISTA]

Last month I was reading this advice column and the letter of choice for that week was from a gentleman who married a woman from a conservative Islamic background, I assume he was a convert, and not of the same culture...But anyways I guess she told him that she never been with a man before and as the sexual relationship progressed between him and her, he began to suspect she wasn't telling him the truth, when she confessed to him then that she has done everything except intercourse...He was upset and was asking for an advice on whether he should seek divorce.

 

I agree with Baashi on this, it isn't whether she was or wasn't it is about the disclosure of the truth...Although I think he could have handled it better than do it on the wedding night and let everyone know about it as well...Bee bye

[Paragon]

There is a Somali tradition in which if the man suspects the women not to be virgin, he'll dig a big hole outside the enterence of the house and leave at once.

 

 

There's another tradition in which the newly married worried is put through some 'caining' process early in her wedding night. Men would take cains and form two parallel lines in which the women is forced to walk through. If she flinches in the process of being cained, it means she wont make a good wife.

 

 

Yet there's another tradition in which men would be invited into the married couples' house, with all house-ware/utensils lying around. Then each man would 'steal' and conceal one or more of these utensils. The test for the wife is to know which man took which qaado or mooye or else it means she'll make a wasteful wife, who wouldn't look after her husband's (future) wealth.

 

In addition to that there is another.....

 

OK. Traditions, traditions. Sord them all.

 

What was the subject again? Virginity? That's a deep subject Im unwilling to delve into right now. Maybe later .

[xiinfaniin]

If the man were himself a virgin, he would not notice whether virginity was broken or not.

 

Gartu Allaah bay taqqaannaa,

 

A & T, waryee maad gabdhaha iska deysid dacwaa iiga kaa timid e.

 

Waxbaad isku ahaydeen kii yiri;

 

Aniga iyo [waxaygii] miyaa eed nakala gaartay

Garba duub u hayntii miyyuu gacan i naafeeyey

Ma kastuumadaan xalu gaduu caawa kala gooyey

[Ducaysane]

Xiin Ok gartu ilaahay bay taqaanaa. Ninkii asagoon virgin ahayn gabdh virgina doonay waa gardaran yahay. taas waa la gartey. Laakiin what about the other thread ( the one that A & T posted) about ninka gaaban iyo gabdha dheer. ayga bal u garnaq