Court grapples with lawyer's veil

[N.O.R.F]

Court grapples with lawyer's veil

 

AP

 

 

 

London: A Muslim lawyer was at the centre of another controversy in Britain over the wearing of full-face veils yesterday after she twice refused to remove one during a hearing, leading the judge to adjourn the case.

 

Shabnam Mughal, 27, insisted she had the right to use the black veil covering all but her eyes during the immigration tribunal hearing in central England at Stoke-on-Trent on Monday, despite the judge saying that he could not hear her.

 

That led officials on Tuesday to ask the president of the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal to issue a decision about how to resolve the courtroom stand-off between Mughal and Judge George Glossop.

 

When Mughal, who was representing a man appealing a Home Office decision denying a family member a visitor's visa, first refused to remove her veil, the case was adjourned until later in the day, the Tribunals Service said. She refused a second time when the hearing was reconvened on Monday afternoon.

 

"You are clearly aware of my position on the grounds of my religious beliefs. I won't," Mughal told the judge, according to yesterday's Daily Express newspaper. Glossop adjourned the hearing until next week so he could seek a ruling from Sir Henry Hodge, the president of the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal, on how to proceed.

 

"We haven't come across this before. No precedent has been set," a spokeswoman for the tribunal said. Mughal is a lawyer for the Law Partnership Solicitors in Coventry. Last month, former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw wrote an article on Muslim women's veils that triggered an emotionally charged debate.

 

http://www.gulfnews.com/world/United_Kingdom/10081095.html

[Reality Check]

Shabnam Mughal, 27, insisted she had the right to use the black veil covering all but her eyes during the immigration tribunal hearing in central England at Stoke-on-Trent on Monday, despite the judge saying that he could not hear her.

If the issue is truly about the judge not being able to hear her, this could be a detriment to the hearing. There "may" be solutions to that problem. I hope they "resolve" this issue without prejudice or stomping of basic human rights.

[Ibtisam]

"You are clearly aware of my position on the grounds of my religious beliefs. I won't," Mughal told the judge,

 

^clearly he heard this or someone did"

 

I don't like the fact that she is supposedly representing someone, yet jeopardizing his case, this is not a trail about her niqab, so why make an issue about it, she needs to speak up or get a microphone or take it off, it is not farad and she is making life for Muslims difficult by insisting on something, while the media reports like she is a lunatic.

 

On a side note, I don't get these people who wear tiny little scarf and then insist on wearing a Niqab, with their feet showing. You should learn to walk before running, surely wearing a fully hijab (a scarf does not qualify as a fully Hijab) is the next logical thing to do if you want to improve, as well as covering you feet!

[Naden]

Just how much attention seeking is enough for some muslims. If we muslims as a group had brought any ethics or mores other than a special dress to the countries we immigrated to, we would not be stomping our feet like adolescents.

[Socod_badne]

The poignant question that should be asked is ths: what religious precepts, tradition, and cultural requirements are muslim women willing to give up to be part of harmonious British society? If none, then why should the British acquiesce to muslim women's demands for accomodation?

[Ibtisam]

That is the same old shid I here every day "when you are in Rome, act like Romans". The fact that there is no exact definition of what British women should look/ act/ wear/ eat, which opens up a lot of doors, what about white women who choose to cover. Recently in a dialogue between India Nights and Julie Burchill the later stated that "what pissed her off was White Bitc*h who choice the path of oppression, not those who were born in oppression" In any case, same way a women can walk in her underwear on road if she wants, the other extreme should not be a problem, and she should not be bullied for it. In saying that a women lawyer could not stand naked in front of a judge and say I am nudist, so the niqabi should consider her options, and not make life difficult for herself and others

[Laba-X]

"she needs to speak up or get a microphone or take it off, it is not farad and she is making life for Muslims difficult"

 

Take it off? You sound very weak in character by willing to compromise your religion in order to attain some sense of place or understanding from the society. Compromise is a sign of weakness! The strong have conviction in what they do, and she sure is a strong woman, just as Azmi is!

[Ibtisam]

Take it off? You sound very weak in character by willing to compromise your religion in order to attain some sense of place or understanding from the society. Compromise is a sign of weakness! The strong have conviction in what they do, and she sure is a strong woman, just as Azmi is!

 

 

^^she is a foolish women! Your religion told you not to harm others and not to make religion difficult or impossible. Women who wear their niqab at work currently, with no problems will not be so grateful to her if a law is passed banning Muslim women from dressing Islamic in the work place. The same goes for the School teacher who was also in the news. As i said they can choose to perfect themselves in other ways, which does not harm or marginalize the Muslim community even more.

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by Naden:

Just how much attention seeking is enough for some muslims. If we muslims as a group had brought any ethics or mores other than a special dress to the countries we immigrated to, we would not be stomping our feet like adolescents.

WTF? Practicing your religion is now attention seeking? If I wear beard because its Sunnah, I am seeking attention? Brought morals or ethics? What have we brought then vice and impurity? :confused:

 

 

IB U should not slander this strong Muslim women and call her a “foolish women” indeed the foolish are they who fear society and Not Allah and knowing the commandments of Allah still ignore it.

 

Allah says they will never accept you until you leave your deen. This is not about niqab.......it is about Islam. Next will be hijab, beard, then salaat, masjid closing.....what then? Before it escalates Muslims in EU and America should fight for their rights.......we are Muslims but also equal citizens of these countries and we who deserve to practice their deen basic human right. The blacks in US couldn’t take their skin off they waged struggled for their civil rights....Muslims should wage jihad to fight for their deen instead of saying “perfect themselves in other ways”. :rolleyes:

 

This summer on da plane was this white Canadian sister who wore niqab.....she was talking to my moms....she told us her story....she converted to Islam and what full covering religiously meant to her, the strength, the passion, the love of her religion deep down I couldn’t help but wish her jannah mashallah. Walaa on the plane she got up went to flight attendant and asked she needs to pray, and prayed on the plane.......while my *** watched a movie and didn’t even pray. I admired her deeply....we need more like her not less.

[- Femme -]

Maybe she should make Hijrah to a muslim country instead of making life difficult for herself. And for the people foaming at the mouth - Niqaab is Sunnah, not obligatory. It is a choice not an order.

 

I'm sorry - I wouldn't want a woman wearing niqaab representing me. Too much prejudiced people in the jury to risk it.

[Caano Geel]

interesting, just an observation on the above discussion. So far none of the ladies that have posted support miss Mughal's position.

 

Now the interesting case is that the ramifications of any decisions from this incident affects them infinitely more than any man here.

 

Therefore, boys what's the case, they obviously dont understand what is good for them and you have to show them?

[Reality Check]

Allah says they will never accept you until you leave your deen. This is not about niqab.......it is about Islam.

Before you jump the gun, go back and read the article. The judge said he couldn't hear her. It's an issue of speaking, and not Islam (yet). Give it time, and see where this goes before we start our rallying/rioting.

[Khalaf]

Reality Check my statements was not towards the article, but in response to the sisters comment. An issue of speaking? I have heard many times niqaab wearing sisters speak.....this in way stops them from speech or representing her client. RC this is just old prejudice the “superior” Anglo-Saxon race has against anybody who is different.....this is not only attack against Muslims but all minorities. The issue today is niqab.......tomorrow it will be the headscarf.....its only oldfashioned racism in disguise and should be fought legally silence is consent. What pisses me off is the lack of support these good sisters (many of them white converts) get from their own community.....ppl are embarrassed by them ive seen it walaa. May Allah Blessing be upon them and to the brothers who publically display their allegiance to Islam! Make life hard for themselves kulaha.....do you think you will enter jannah without being tested in this life?

 

 

Originally posted by Femme:

I'm sorry - I wouldn't want a woman wearing niqaab representing me. Too much prejudiced people in the jury to risk it. [/QB]

There is prejudice against hijab wearing sisters, against blacks, against arabs, against Asians, against Hispanics, against women..... with your logic it seems you would only want the “acceptable” anglo-saxon white man to represent you and be lawyers to win a case come on now.

[Caano Geel]

Khalaf, saaxiib, yes wearing a niqaab does not prevent the sister from speaking, but neither would standing behind a door and shouting loudly for the rights of her client to recieve sharcigiisa.

 

But this is a point on professionalism. In my humble oppinion, the lady is making a political statement. This is not a case about her believes. I would really like to know if she turned up for her Bar exams in a niqaab.

 

Now does she have the rights to make political statement, yes, most definetly. Does she have the right to stick a finger up at the establishement, again yes and i will support her for it with all my heart. But, will i want her arguing my case behind her cloth, I'm sorry but the answer is no.

 

Further, her actions are full of contradictions, first, if she's going to such lengths to protect her modestly against men, why engade in a profession that will expect her to constantly engage with men, and at that, men that arnt muslims.

 

Now that does not mean dont get a job, it means get a job that minimises your risks. But hightening your risks of engadement, then arguing, you have a right to withdraw from the social etiquites that govern interactions in the profession she's chosen, that is just plain hypocrycy.

 

Again in my oppinion, she should stand up and say she's making a statment. With that at least i have respect for her social conviction and will support her right to be a voice for all the niqaab denied sisters.

 

Your other point about rascism is only too true, especially with regard to muslims. Everybody fears us and while they do, they will try to dismantle anything they believe gives us some form of power.

 

This point i don't think you address by castigating yourself from the wider society you live in. If you want a homogeneous one society that thinks the way you do and believes what you do, probably the UK aint the place for you. And we all know she wouldnt be arguing anyone's case in saudi or in arguing with a judge in pakistan, unless her father is a military general.

 

Anyhow the point is that there is always a compramise to be made, if you dont want to have to make it, dont put yourself in the position. Dont misinterpet this as "you've got to take everything that is thrown at you and smile for it", norms are there so that people are comfortable in interacting with each other, not just you with them.

[Naden]

^ Excellent post.

 

The woman is making a political statement, and so are much of the folks behind the veil/niqab debates in muslim and non-muslim countries alike. Clothes, colours, symbols of political movements are a staple of human societies and they often cleverly hide behind religion. Muslims, in general, are weak politically whether inside or outside their countries and are very much oppressed in the former. This 100 year debate is not likely to go anywhere and will continue to resurface in lieu of other statements.