India playing off with our waters, who they think they are!

[me]

BeeGee, you make a good point. A tense situation in Southall will be made worse.

 

Norf, let’s get the facts straight here.

 

1. Ships from many countries have been doing illegal activities in Somali waters.

2. Somali fishermen decided in the absence of a central state in Somalia that they should protect their livelihood and their environment against criminal gangs operating of the Somali waters who engage in illegal fishing and the dumping of toxic waste.

3. These fishermen formed cooperative groups that patrol the Somali sees.

4. When these Somali fishermen encounter ships that have entered Somali waters illegally they stop them, tow the ship and detain the crew pending further investigation and if necessary the owners of the ships are fined.

5. The crews are treated humanely and the ships are returned including cargo.

 

Now let’s look at what happened during the encounter between the Somali fishermen and the Indian Navy ship. From what we can gather from the news.

 

A Somali fisher’s boat in international waters was sunk by an Indian Navy ship.

Now take a moment and think,

 

A) Was this boat doing any illegal activities other then to be a Somali boat in international waters?

B) Did this boat pose any threat to the Indian Navy ship?

 

If the answer to those two questions is negative, then what gives the Indian ship the right to sink that ship?

[N.O.R.F]

1. Ships from many countries have been doing illegal activities in Somali waters. Irrelevant

 

2. Somali fishermen decided in the absence of a central state in Somalia that they should protect their livelihood and their environment against criminal gangs operating of the Somali waters who engage in illegal fishing and the dumping of toxic waste.

Really? Since when? This is a classic case of 'wax isku sheekeeya' to justify these criminal acts.

 

3. These fishermen formed cooperative groups that patrol the Somali sees. When? Where? To me they are Pirates!

 

4. When these Somali fishermen encounter ships that have entered Somali waters illegally they stop them, tow the ship and detain the crew pending further investigation and if necessary the owners of the ships are fined. You're conveniently forgetting most of the hijacking were in fact done in International waters. Again, they are Pirates

 

5. The crews are treated humanely and the ships are returned including cargo. I'm sure being kidnapped and held at gun point pending your company's payment of a 'fine' can be classified at humane.

 

Now let’s look at what happened during the encounter between the Somali fishermen and the Indian Navy ship. From what we can gather from the news.

 

A Somali fisher’s boat in international waters was sunk by an Indian Navy ship.

Now take a moment and think,

 

A) Was this boat doing any illegal activities other then to be a Somali boat in international waters? From the article they fired on the Indian warship FIRST. Again, the Indian warship is entitled to stop them and ask questions if they suspect they are pirates. 'Fishermen' don't travel more than 200 nautical miles to catch fish. They're not armed with RPGs and AKs.

 

B) Did this boat pose any threat to the Indian Navy ship? They were obviously armed!!!

 

You and others need to stop making excuses for these guys and see things for what they are. They are criminals!

[NGONGE]

Norf,

 

They are absolute and total criminals. I don't doubt that nor dispute it. But, for the time being and as long as they are not killing anyone, I am happy to see them wreck havoc in the seas. Eventually, and probably after loads of heartache, I strongly believe this is only a good thing.

 

The Indians, unlike the Brits, threatened to board the ship and fire at it, leaving the pirates with no choice. When the Brits sank and arrested some pirates they did it in self-defence. Here the aggressions (as the stories say) were all from the Indian side.

 

I am happy to see pirates blown out of the water but not at seeing foreign navies acting without following correct procedures.

[me]

Hold on here.

 

There is no need for 'waxaa la yiri stuff’ and I am not justifying anything. You are the one justifying Indian action and I am just correcting you, don’t forget that.

 

1. Are you denying that illegal fishing has been taking place in Somali waters since the fall of the military regime?

 

Do Somali fishermen have the right to protect their livelihoods against these criminal gangs that are active in Somali waters?

 

3. Are you denying there has been illegal dumping of toxic waste in Somali waters?

 

Do Somali fishermen have the right to protect their livelihoods against these criminal gangs that are active in Somali waters?

 

If you say that the fishermen have the right to engage the criminals that are operating in Somali waters, then which course of action do you suggest to be taken?

 

Should the Somali fishermen write to Greenpeace? Or should they discourage illegal fishing and toxic dumping in our waters?

 

After you have answered that, let move to the attack by the Indian ship.

 

You said:

 

From the article they fired on the Indian warship FIRST. Again, the Indian warship is entitled to stop them and ask questions if they suspect they are pirates. 'Fishermen' don't travel more than 200 nautical miles to catch fish. They're not armed with RPGs and AKs.

 

Well who are we to judge the fishing methods of Somali fishermen? Some fishermen use trawlers, Somali fishermen obviously use other methods. Many fishermen around the world use dynamite to fish. Being armed in international waters is not illegal, otherwise the Indians shouldn’t be armed either.

 

Fishermen travel more then 200 nautical miles to catch fish, otherwise how do you explain Taiwanese fishing trawlers of the coast of Somalia?

 

They were obviously armed!!!

 

It seems they were not armed enough otherwise this incident wouldn’t take place.

[Fabregas]

^^fishermen=pirates and pirates=fishermen?

 

And when did they set up this little neighbourhood watch?

 

All the evidence shows that piracy is a get rich quick scheme. When did it become the business of fluffy fishermen, who are merely standing up for their rights? ya?

[N.O.R.F]

Ngonge,

 

The Brits arrested some pirates? When?

 

The actions of the Indians are understandable and they may have over zelous on their part but again I believe they are fullt entitled to stop them. After recent goings on this is only a natural 'follow on' (for want of a better expression).

 

Me,

 

What are you on about saxib?

 

1. Are you denying that illegal fishing has been taking place in Somali waters since the fall of the military regime? No. But criminals are criminals however and whatever their gripe!

 

Do Somali fishermen have the right to protect their livelihoods against these criminal gangs that are active in Somali waters? Not through criminal activities. Again, most of the Hijacking take place in Int waters.

 

3. Are you denying there has been illegal dumping of toxic waste in Somali waters? No I'm not. But what does that have to do with hijacking ships? Does it justify them? Are you justying their actions?

 

Do Somali fishermen have the right to protect their livelihoods against these criminal gangs that are active in Somali waters? Is the Saudi ship part of a criminal gang? Are the other vessels hijcaked part of criminal gangs? Silly question.

 

If you say that the fishermen have the right to engage the criminals that are operating in Somali waters, then which course of action do you suggest to be taken? See above reply.

 

Should the Somali fishermen write to Greenpeace? Or should they discourage illegal fishing and toxic dumping in our waters? Best thing you've said all day.

 

After you have answered that, let move to the attack by the Indian ship.

 

You said:

 

From the article they fired on the Indian warship FIRST. Again, the Indian warship is entitled to stop them and ask questions if they suspect they are pirates. 'Fishermen' don't travel more than 200 nautical miles to catch fish. They're not armed with RPGs and AKs.

 

Well who are we to judge the fishing methods of Somali fishermen? Some fishermen use trawlers, Somali fishermen obviously use other methods. Being armed in international waters is not illegal, otherwise the Indians shouldn’t be armed either. The Indian ship is part of the Indian Navy. Just like all Navy ships it has weaponary. They are part of international efforts to counter piracy in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea. They have a mandate. That mandate will allow for the stopping, questioning and if necessary 'engagement' of any suspicious ship/boat.

 

Fishermen travel more then 200 nautical miles to catch fish, otherwise how do you explain Taiwanese fishing trawlers of the coast of Somalia? Have any of these been caught? No? So far its been cargo ships who have been hijacdked. Nothing to do with what you have stated.

 

They were obviously armed!!!

 

It seems they were not armed enough otherwise this incident wouldn’t take place. Erm yeah.

 

Typical Somali baad tahay. Blame the whole world and refuse to look inwards. Worst thing is trying to justify their actions by misleading others! Fishermen protecting their shores kulaha!

[me]

BeeGee

 

1. The exact date when the neighbourhood watch was set up is not known but it took place in the mid 90’s after experiencing the negative impact of illegal fishing by trawlers from other countries in Somali waters.

2. Pirate is a negative word with a historic baggage does not apply in this Somali context. Let’s refer to them as Somali Citizens for Maritime Protection (SCMP).

3. The police fines speeding motorists and collects allot of money that way, which could be termed as a get rich quick scheme too.

4. It is the duties of all Somalia citizens to enforce Somali laws in Somalia and that includes detaining parties engaged in illegal activities inside Somali waters. In the US it’s called Citizens Arrest I believe.

[NGONGE]

Norf, here:

 

Written By:Doreen Apollos/KNA , Posted: Tue, Nov 18, 2008

Eight suspected Somali pirates have been handed over to the Kenyan authorities by the British Royal Navy for prosecution.

The eight were arrested last week as they tried to hijack a Yemeni fishing vessel within Indian Ocean last Tuesday.

The handing over was done by the British Minister for Armed Forces Bob Ainsworth as the Navy completed its counter-piracy operation at the ocean.

The suspects of Somali origin had attempted to attack a Danish merchant vessel before they were intercepted by the Royal Marines personnel from HMS Cumberland.

Ainsworth said the operation will resume again soon until the piracy menace is contained around the Horn of Africa although he conceded that it seemed hard to suppress it completely.

The British official today told a Press conference at a Nairobi Hotel that he was happy with the way the operation had been successfully carried out noting that the rescue of the Yemenis sent a strong message to the pirates that their activities were intolerable.

Ainsworth said the global community was united in its efforts to deter and disrupt the illegal activities and thanked the Kenyan Government for its resolute action in agreeing to try the suspects.

He warned that the pirate's activities should not be taken lightly, citing the Saturday incident where the merchant vessel, Sirius Star, was hijacked even after the eight suspects were arrested.

"We are in no illusions about the scale of the challenges presented by piracy although the interception of the merchant vessel from the criminals' hands represents a step change in capability of the pirates.

At the same time he said he was delighted by cooperation from the government in the joint armed forces training, adding that he was to visit Archers post where the personnel was training.

He said the visit would help to know how the training could be developed to ensure it remained relevant to the two countries' security requirements.

Ainsworth is also scheduled to visit Embakasi to review the progress on the development of the Eastern African Standby Brigade for peace keeping operations and members of the British Peace Support team.

He said his Government will spend sh 120 million to build an outfit at the Embakassi headquarters which the local Armed forces will use to plan and manage its participation in the future peace keeping operations.

The development comes as pirates continued to hold the 25-strong crew of the supertanker Sirius Star, which was attacked on Saturday.

Crews from a Royal Navy warship shot dead two Somali pirates after a Yemeni flagged dhow was identified as having tried to attack the Danish vessel, the MV Powerful.

"This is clear evidence that we will take every opportunity to combat the pirates who disrupt legitimate trade and add significant costs to goods UK consumer rely on," said the armed forces minister, Bob Ainsworth, speaking in Nairobi, Kenya.

"We are sending a strong message to pirates that their activities will not be tolerated and that the global community is united in its efforts to deter and disrupt them."

HMS Cumberland, a Plymouth-based Type 22 frigate, has been deployed on a piracy-fighting mission in the region.

Pirates have turned the Gulf of Eden a cash cow where they demand millions of dollars in ransoms for ship they capture.

The pirates are now ruling the gulf of Eden described as the most dangerous waters in the world, their latest catch being Sirius Star a Saudi Arabia oil tankers loaded with fuel estimated at 1 billion Kenya shillings.

The overambitious nature of the pirates is warring world governments who have stepped up efforts to tackle the sophisticated armed pirates.

Both Kenya and British governments are optimistic that their efforts would act as a deterrent.

According to reports by the International Maritime Bureau, attacks in Indian Ocean waters rose rapidly to 26 cases, up from an earlier record of only eight cases a year.

This includes the seizure of MV Faina loaded with deadly arsenals insensibility belonging to the Kenya government.

 

Source

[Kamaavi]

My sentiments exactly, Ngonge. Also, in regard to fixing the problems of Somalia, I truly hope this happens. That could be the start of a new revolution which is long overdue.

 

Btw, have you noticed the almost break of civil war in Kenya after the election, and you had the Western countries and the UN tried everything to save the country, same thing with Zimbabwe.It was Somalia who needed most, yet no one gives sh!t about it.

 

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

The more they do it, the more furore about the pirate problem in Somali and the better the chance the world will press all sides to fix the Somali problem (and not just the piracy problem).

[Ms DD]

I was told that 2 no-hopers from distant family went to their little tuulo with £250k each. Distributed $4k to each family in the whole tuulo. You can imagine ducada lagu tuurayo.

[Hayat]

Firm action is required and any armed thugs should get their just deserts.

Justice!! spare me.

 

the other day an aunty of mine was telling me that she was in a class with a chinese man. He asked her where she is from, she told him that she was from somalia, upon hearing that he told her he had been there(in recent years). She asked him what he was doing there, he told her that he toured there in his boat(literally!!). she asked him what was the purpose of his tour, he told her we went to go sight seing. she looked at him and told him, he didnt go sight seing rather he went get treasures that he had no right to seek, and that eventually the truth will surface.The other odd part was that she mentioned she didnt see him in class after that day.

 

its amazing what certain people rely on us to believe!!!

[Gheelle.T]

I don't think sending foreign navies to Somalia and killing those pirates will tame the piracy crisis. Also, what Indian navy did could make the situation even worse. What if the pirates start killing crews of the ships they hijack(there are quite a number of Indians aboard on the ships they already have.)

 

The long term solution is to get a stable Somali government which may or may not happen any time soon. Short term solution is to do what the ICU did in their brief control of power, which is to deny them(pirates) safe haven inland. That is where Puntland comes in. They can't sit back and say world doesn't want to help us, not any anymore. World is ready to help and they should show a commitment in their part to fight these pirates. Close those hubs in Eyl and along the Puntland coast line where all the ships are docked. And make some arrest on the big fishes, trust me they are locally known. Until that happens, piracy will continue and we will be discussing Benin's navy sinking smuglers' boat full of Ethios and Somali refugees to Yemen.

[me]

For Norf - Read this article from the BBC.

 

'World only cares about pirates'

 

Ex-Somali Army Colonel Mohamed Nureh Abdulle lives in Harardhere - the town closest to where the hijacked Saudi oil tanker, Sirius Star is moored. He tells the BBC, via phone from his home, that the town's residents are more concerned about the apparent dumping of toxic waste than piracy.

 

The Harardhere-born military man advises the town's elders on security matters and is in his fifties.

 

Somalia has been wracked by conflict since 1991 - when its last national government was forced from power.

 

The super-tanker is close to our coast. It is a very, very long ship. Some time ago we had our own problems of piracy in our town but that has not happened lately.

 

The people who have been hijacking these ships in our seas are not from our region. We do not know any of the guys on the super-tanker and they haven't made any contact with us.

 

You know, our problem is not piracy. It is illegal dumping.

 

These problems have been going for sometime and the world knows about it. The Americans have been here in the region for a long time now - they know about the pollution.

 

Instead, no, the world is only talking about the pirates and the money involved.

 

Mysterious illnesses

 

Meanwhile, there has been something else going on and it has been going on for years. There are many dumpings made in our sea, so much rubbish.

 

 

 

 

 

It is dumped in our seas and it washes up on our coastline and spreads into our area.

 

A few nights ago, some tanks came out from the high sea and they cracked it seems and now they are leaking into the water and into the air.

 

The first people fell ill yesterday afternoon. People are reporting mysterious illnesses; they are talking about it as though it were chicken pox - but it is not exactly like that either. Their skin is bad. They are sneezing, coughing and vomiting.

 

This is the first time it has been like this; that people have such very, very bad sickness.

 

The people who have these symptoms are the ones who wake early, before it is light, and herd their livestock to the shore to graze. The animals are sick from drinking the water and the people who washed in the water are now suffering.

 

Isolated

 

We are people who live in a very remote town and here, we are isolated; we only rely on God.

 

This town is close to the sea. It is a very old town which has a mixture of Somali clans. It is not big but it has a well-knit community.

 

Our community used to rely on fishing. But now no-one fishes. You see, a lot of foreign ships were coming and they were fishing heavily - their big nets would wipe out everything, even the fishermen's equipment. They could not compete.

 

So the people here began farming and keeping greater numbers of livestock. Like in any other Somali town, all one can do is rely on oneself.

 

But now we have these medical hazards.

 

What can we do about it?

 

Source

[Fabregas]

Mr Me, pointing out that Somalia's oceans have been used as dumping grounds and envrinmentally exploited, doesn't neccesarily equate to the morality of the pirates. MrS D&Ds story about her cousins and many other media reportes simply point to the fact the piracy, for the large majority, is simply a get rich scheme.

 

 

Furthermore, these guys venture into international waters and hijack cruise ships, oil tankers, etc. Of course, one can give lipservice and go on about SOmali Robin Hoods, but the facts point to bunch of thugs robbing folks to get rich. I'll give it to them they are hustlers and know how to survive, making millions in one of the poorest places in the world; yet to paint them as innocent fisherman guarding SOmalia's honour is a complete and utter nonsense, unless you bring forth evidence showing them to be little fishermen.

 

 

ps.the SOmalia in you wants to cheer for them, lakin, let us not delude ourselves. oright.

[BOB]

Bring back the Islamic Courts and watch this criminals disappear into thin air just like they did when the ICU were in control...I don't see any other solution regardless to how many warships are deployed.Full Stop.

 

 

Salam Aleikum W.W

 

 

Peace, Love & Unity.